Some of you may have seen our latest short 'Fuggy Fuggy'. If not you can see it here.
We are starting work on Fuggy2 and we are keen to make more. Here's the catch though - obviously we can't keep churning them out with no revenue coming in. So, if you liked the first episode would you be willing to pay $1 to view the second?
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The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
Can you fill me in??? Call ME daft, but I still don't get it. ;)
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
Say it out loud... ;)
scatological
Ah the eternal question of how to make money off your art.
Scott McCloud's book Reinventing Comics : How Imagination and Technology Are Revolutionizing an Art Form is almost entirely focused on his views of how to use the internet to sell comics (very disappointing read compared to his previous, Understanding Comics), but it can easily be applied towards animation, music or any art.
His theory is based around micropayments (10 cents or less) and volume. He also suggests things like letting people read or watch part of the art and allow them to decide whether they feel it's worth paying for the rest. Very interesting ideas but some logistical nightmares as no system is really set up to do this sort of micropayment-one-touch sort of thing. And of course, with an animation, breaking it up ruins the flow and timing pretty badly.
The problem for you guys is that at the moment, not many people are aware of who or what you are. Pixar could probably charge for their short animations online and would make thousands as people climbed over each other to see the latest short. And they probably will with iTunes video in place. Not typically so with smaller, lesser known artists unfortunately. Even at a dollar, it's unlikely that the regular Joe is going to plunk down a dollar (or enough of them to make it worth any where near how much time you put in on it). I imagine even Jib Jab only makes a tiny amount compared to operating and creation costs and still gives most of it all away. From what I understand, they're still doing commercial work on the side.
Please, this is not a critique of your work or abilities, but just my opinion on the average schmo. You're mostly likely talking to the people who are most likely to pay for it now.
What does that leave? Various travelling festivals will pay for it (assuming they accept it), Spike and Mike, Show of Shows, possibly Atom Films. iTunes is an interesting option, please let us know how it goes (you'll get more downloads that way, too). Word of mouth is important. Send it to festivals. Start small and aim for the bigger ones (you're likely to get invited to more as you continue on). Go to as many related boards as possible and post info about it. Have your friends do the same. Spread the word (and like Harvey said, use a subject title so people can find your post again when they want to watch it a second time).
Even still, it's unlikely that it will pay for a feature or even a short sequel. You'll need to pull in money doing commercials and freelancing. Pixar, Blue Sky, and PDI did that for years before they were able to have enough clout and money to jump into features. Perhaps come up with a pitch to a 2D studio. They may bite.
If you can't wait for that, your best bet may still be to go the traditional route and find investors. You're off to a good start though. You have a short (several after the sequel) to show off your style, but more importantly, that you can follow through on a project.
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
Forgot one of the most important parts. I wish you good luck. If you succeed, it gives us all hope that we can succeed as well.
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
i dont know if i would pay....its only a dollar so it seems like too much effort to go through with paypal or however to give that one measly dollar.
Webtoons all over make their money from ads/stores on their fully detailed websites with a big community.
I know i really wouldnt PAY to see something as......small (if you will) as this. Maybe once i knew i liked the character and what happens.
just know people will expect it for free. look at Red Vs Blue (www.redvsblue.com)
got free customers and paying, and DVDs and apparel...became huge. and you only pay for what you know you want.
"who wouldn't want to make stuff for me? I'm awesome." -Bloo
It's a tricky one true.
We have had succes with selling animated content online. See link
http://eskyweb.com/
Obviously that is a different area but we are exploring all avenues at the moment. Fuggy has been taken by Atomfilms and Channel Frederator and had over 100000 hits without us doing any advertising so by the time 2 is finished Fuggy will be in a strong position. We have considered advertising but I would rather create an income stream that was sustainable.
Anyhoo 2 won't be finished until the end of Feb so lots more thinking time.
I still think if you offer free content that people really like, then offer extra that they have to pay for and as long as the payment process is quick and easy, people would pay. I would if I thought the content was good enough.
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
i came at this from the business and marketing POV. i think i was far from discouraging. this is something he can and should do.as long as its not his sole form of funding.
i was just pointing out a potential problem which he could solve through some way or the other.
had zero intention of sounding discouraging. i think their work is cracking and i wish them continued success.
I probably wouldn't... it's not the dollar that I'm not willing to give up, but the time and effort involved with the transaction. That's just me though.
BTW, I love Fuggy Fuggy! Have you thought about generating some income by selling some ad banner space? You could also set up a donation through paypal... not sure how successful that'd be. How bout opening a cafepress shop and selling some of your branded characters on T-shirts?
If I'm just repeating what others have posted I apologize... just don't have time to read everyone's response!
Hey Grega, I am always following folks that find a way to make a buck this Lady started out giving her stuff away, now she's making a living. I hate the way her new website looks, but it's probably easier to maintain with the backend that she is using now. All you folks that say sell ad space, it doesn't work until you hit the big time. I've tried all the affiliate things, and with just over 1000 hits per month, I've never received a check in three years.
http://www.jacquielawson.com/
Hey and don't forget "Ugly Dolls" they started out as flash creations:
http://www.uglydolls.com/
Maybe you need to make a doll?
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
That's probably a percentages game, and depending on targeted interest. It's probably 1/1000 people that are potential money earners for you, so in terms of profiting from affiliate links that's hardly even playing the game.
I'm confused about the "hassle of transaction." Aside from a change in atmosphere, and whether or not I have the numbers committed to memory that day, paying for things online isn't much different than the typing and button-pressing I do to say something here. Plus some of my excitement at seeing the short would make me bum less about the hassles.
Scattered, I don't think the hassle factor is that big a deal, but you have to create a demand, that's what the JibJib guys and Lawson have done. I've haven't found the magic to that yet.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
And if it was just magic and creative skill the Goober guys would be in the winning circle now, but I don't think they've really found that financial reward yet. They have a following, but I am not sure how profitable it is.
http://www.goober.nu/
Or how about the Kidsfortruth, they do great work, but I don't think they are making any money off it. But I love their stuff.
http://www.kids4truth.com/
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
YOU MUST BE SILLY MAN :mad:
1 DOLLAR JUST 2 SEE AN ANIMATION CLIP!!!!
I DON'T THINK SO!! LOL
Message By Echi Echi :D :) :) :cool:
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Sorry didn't make it clear.
It's a 5 minute film
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
However, $0.99 is quite reasonable.;)
I think you've stumbled upon the big question, indeed. How to make money in an arena where virtually everyone can (and expects) to see free content.
The task is to create (probably for free, initially) a charachter and/or show that folks WOULD actually pay to see...and given the many downloads of your last show, I'd say you just might be on to something, eh?
OR, try another model that says you can now demand a decent advertising revenue for companies to adverti$e on your site, therefore keeping the viewers coming to see your FREE movies (financed by the advertising revenue).
Phew! Hope that helps...
Anyhoo, I like FuggyFuggy!
Cheers!
Splatman:D
SPLAT digital
Why not just put your stuff on DVD, grega? People are more willing to pay for something tangible.
P.S. Please, enough with the "I'd like to ask a question" thread titles. Think of more descriptive thread titles. If you don't know how to advertise your threads, then you probably won't have much luck advertising your online cartoons.
That is a bit harsh, no? It is not an "animation clip", but rather, a full minute film, with story, etc. Also, YOU produce films for free, with no income coming from them, and see how long you last...
Grega, there are in fact web sites that have this same approach for paying to view films. I am not sure what they are any more (icebox.com or something?). If it can work for them, then it can certainly work for you, as their films, for the most part, are quite uninteresting, and not funny, and lack any level of polish. That being sid, you might want to look into one of those sites, as they have more traffic, and you will more likely get some views... Noone wants to go to a web site and put $1 on their credit card to view one film... They would rather have an account, where they can see multiple films.
Anyways... I understand where you care coming from, and know that production costs money... You have to eat somehow, yeah? Good luck to you.
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
I just paid a buck to get the latest issue of fps magazine online, and I can see how I'd pay for the same for an animated short. Heck, people pony up $1 for iTunes all the time, right?
Hi Grega. First of all I loved your first Fuggy Fuggy short. I was laughing through out the whole thing. Sorry I didn't get around to posting about it before.
As for charging a buck to watch, I think that's fair. I wouldn't pay for it because I'm not really plugged in with a paypal account or something simular. But if I did, I'd pay that much for it. DSB got me thinking about iTunes. I don't know how you'd go about doing it, but now that you can buy videos through iTunes could you contact them and maybe sell your cartoon through them? Just a thought. Keep 'em coming though, it was really fun to watch.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I saw that-great job :D
The main question is are you letting the public ''see'' the movie for $1,or are you letting the public ''download'' the moive for $1?
If you let them download it im sure many people would buy the movie''especially if it was watchable on an i-pod.
Hope that help's and keep up the great work!!!! :D
The JibJab brothers offered free stuff and still do, but now that they've gone big time some stuff costs for download. Maybe follow their example.
http://www.jibjab.com/Home.aspx
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
I would most certainly watch it for a dollar, even if it was just the one-time viewing (assuming I could be assured it was glitch-free) based on my experience of the original short.
The iTunes interests me as well. There are sites where you can purchase online distributorship for -music- via those channels for relatively cheap (promote yourself, but at least you're available on their service) so definitely look into any avenues whereby videos might be obtained the same way. I've got half a mind to believe you'd find a lot of success there with this particular series.
re. itunes
We have approached them and we are waiting for a reply.Tht would obviously be the best option.
The main reason for trying to raise the cash is that we are planning to do a feature. In flash!
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
your biggest problem is not getting people to pay $1 to view your clip, its the logistics of getting that one dollar out of their account into yours.
everyone isnt into paypal, going through a whole credit card fill up for $1 as well would turn people off.
you lose out to the payment process not the content and people willing to pay for it.
Yeah, it'll never work; don't even bother to try, Grega...:(
Sheesh...
Way to encourage someone who's trying something new!
Like I said before, I just paid $1 for the latest FPS issue online - and it wasn't through Paypal. I went through the whole "credit card fill-up" and managed to get through it without being turned off.
Go for it, Grega. People said the "horseless carriage" wouldn't last either (or the "talkies", or TV, or...)
We've got nothing to lose really. We are making a new episode anyway so we either give it away like episode 1 or try and generate some dollars so we can make our fuggy feature.
We are going to offer a little package to go with the download, ringtones etc as a sweetner. Still not sure what to charge, no more than $2 though.
We are going to be doing a 'Making of Fuggy 2' podcast and blog, so hopefully that may generate some interest.
Watch this space.
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
SkinnyLizard might have been speaking to merchant accounts, and all those fees that go with them. When your product is that cheap it's hard to say "Woohoo!" to taking the payments yourself when the ability to take the payments could easily cost more, at least to start.
Even at 2 dollars for the cartoon alone (I don't care for cell phones =) I'd watch it, but that's knowing the fun Grega quality I've come to know...as long as the original gets kept free and they can know what they're getting...
I think you've made a key comment here, SL. Providing a free "taste" before asking the viewer to pony up for more could turn out to be an important marketing tactic.
BTW, I don't know why it took me so long, but I just "got" your screen name. I guess the "D" in DSB stands for "Duh..." ;)