hi im new. im sixteen and a flash animator in my free time. I am planning on working on a project for my portfolio over the summer break but know no other 2d animation techniques. I am particularly interestred in anime and have heard of anime cels but am unsure of how the are painted and what with etc. does anyone know any way of guiding me through the proccess like websites or books?
Hi 87 and welcome to the Forums.
I'm kinda confused, are you going to animate your short with Flash, or traditionally with pencil, paper, cel's and paint?
The Animation Meat has some tutorials, as does our very own moderator, Larry. You can find a link to his website somewhere on this site. Also check out the animation books by Tony White, who is the moderator on the "Animator's Desktop" forum, and also Richard Williams book "The Animator's Survival Kit."
Good luck,
The Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
booyah!
thanks alot you cheeky monkey! ;)
im still finding it hard to find out how to colour or fill my acetate sheet once ive xeroxed it. I read something about copic markers on www.howtodrawmanga.com is that what they use for anime's such as dbz or naruto anyone? if not then what do i use to colour?
I've not used the copic markers...but I think they are a designer marker designed for paper. I have no Idea if manga artists use them for final colors or as a designation as a colorist for the final printing. I've yet to know what is more special about them than let's say panatone or prismacolor designer pens.
For cel paint, craft store acrylics would work. Those are the type of paints in the cel-painting hobby sets you can sometimes get at a toy store. And I know I have seen paint specific for acetate in the not-to-distant-past made by Cartoon Color and it's called Cel Vinyl. I don't know why it was still in stock but it may have to do with that it is used in painting backgrounds too. It goes on flatter in tone than regular acrylic. You don't want the paint to be too thick or too thin. You can dilute it with h2o to get the right consistency. Paint the back of the cel. I've seen painters start with the darker colors first and go to the lighter or the other way around. You don't want to brush it on but glob it the end of the brush, try not to get it in the ferrule, and basically push that glob and puddle around the area with the brush. You don't want streaks....but what the heck it's going on your wall right? YOu don't have to be as careful as if you were actually photographing it under lights. If you get little bubbles you should be able to get rid of them by gntly flicking the front of the cell with your finger. Mistakes can be fixed by dampening toilet paper and placing on the mistake for a while ,easing the removal by scratching lightly...without scratching the cel. It's best to get it right. I was taught toilet paper because it was said it had less wood fibres in it than nose tissue..but that may be a myth.
WHew.
Thats some good info Graphiteman. Remember 87, there is a difference between Anime and Manga. Anime is Japanesse animation, and Manga are Japanesse comic books.
The Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
THANKS GUYS ok ill have a stab at the acyrlics for now but i have to be careful because acetate costs me about £20 for 50 SHEETS! (above is the character I designed READY FOR A PRINTIN :D watchathink? (i made him kinda simple cos of the animating lark)
hi 87,
i admirer your determination to wanna do anime with oldschool technique
it will be a good experience.
at the same time i like to make sure you know that all( or at least most) anime studios now use digital "cel coloring"
the cleaned-up pencil animation gets scanned and colored digitally
advantages:
- no costs for expensive cells and paints
- the paint process can be partially automated (with the right software)
- unlimited color palette
- easy colorcorrections & mistake corrections
good luck with your project
Peter Wassink - Digital 2D Animator
thanks mate i think im gonna do one cell in acrylic just for the fun of it and because i already splashed out on the actetate :mad: but probably gonna use a cpu program now for the actuall project beacuase your not the 1st to tell me cels are now obsolete :D
what is better? toonbomb or mirage (for anime) anyone?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
POSIBLY THE WORST START TO THIS NEW ANIMATION TECHNIQUE EEEEVER
heres a tip: if you cant get the paint out of an acrylic tube DONT use all of your weight on it in a sudden 'paramedic like' pressing action
tee hee im ruined!
I'll tell you what, mate (87)
I just read this thread for the first time, and I started to panic when I saw that you were going to buy acetate cells and paint your animation traditionally. Once it is coloured (opaqued), what will you do with it? The only thing you can do with it is to find an old dinosaur of an animation camera and someone who knows how to use it in order to put the animation together. It is VERY EXPENSIVE. I am sure it could be done, as I am sure you could find a studio around the London area that still has its old camera stand up, even though it will probably be covered in 6 inches of dust, but I would not suggest it. Not to mention that the actual painting is a big pain in the arse as well.
I was happy to see someone informed you of digital ink and paint, and you seemed happy to do so. It is still nice, if you have a nice background painted, and a nice pose of your characters that works with that background painted on acetate, to frame and put on your wall, but to do the bulk of your actual animation colourization, digital is the way to go.
There are a lot of great software packages on the market to do your painting, but unfortunately, they are very expensive (most of them). My personal favorite one is called CTP, made by Crater Studios and can be found here . It is very easy to learn, and VERY versatile and powerful. Like I said, I have tried a lot of them, and this one is BY FAR the best in my opinion. Check it out on the net. I believe you can download a trial version which will work fully, but when you output your final picture, you will get a watermarked logo. It is good just to try, and if you like it, then go and buy it. It is fairly cheap, in comparison to many other packages. Just don't go and spend the money (lots of it) on one of these programs before trying their demos, in case you do not like them. There is also a cracked copy of this thing circulating around that works fully as well, but I do not suggest that you talk about that here, as there are some who will jump on you for that, even though their own computers are probably FULL of cracked software. I will probably get jumped on for even mentioning this to you, but knowing you are 16 years old, and probably cannot afford a £2000 piece of software, and you will not be making any money from what you are trying to do, just thought you should know.
Cheers mate, and have fun.
Wade
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
Man talk about your all time BIGGEST bummers. Hey 87, i say b realistic. Much like Wade k over there, lol, no offense wade but those so called "old fashioned antiuqe cameras" of yours are not so old. Anyways, the cels r very awesome, but try to get some1 to work w/ you if at all possible. Also, I too am starting w/ the cels, and have bout' 200 or so I am working with to produce just a mini-short. Ya wade has a point though, hand-painting cels is a huge bummer, but it' s all worth it mate. So ya, fare well with the cels and have fun, also , go at your own pace so you don't make too many fatal errors. But hey, without errors, where would the technique come from? Oh, before I finish this epic of a post, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND MIRAGE if you are going the digital route anytime soon.
-HannaBarberaGuy-
Bummer of a guy?!?! Hehehehe... Just being realistic. I too love the look of traditionally shot animation, but the fact of the matter is that nobody uses the old camera stands any more. The last time I saw one in use was in the early '90's. Just saying it would be very hard to find one that is operational, and an able body to operate it well. It is too bad, because I knew a few VERY talented cameramen, and they all became obselete (much like us 2D animators). That is the true bummer, my friend. Anyways... No offence taken ;) .
I have been hearing a lot about this mirage program lately (within the last couple weeks), but have never seen the program. I will have to look it up and have a try (if there is a demo version to try, that is). I am very happy using CTP, and don't intend to shell out more dough for a new program, but I like to keep myself informed as to what else is available.
Hand painting DOES look great for setups to put on your wall though, if you can master the application of paint to the cell. I opaqued for a little bit of time during college, and it took a while to get the hang of it (I scratched my fair share of paint off of cells that I f*@ked up), and I really would never want to do it again.
Cheers
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
but as far as the whole thing of 2/ders also becoming obsolete, well well, I believe there is to be an all 2/D expo. to be held in Burbank on the 26th of June. It's entitled the just that THE 2/D EXPO. so uh hm, I believe that as far as maintream or "the public eye" seems to detere people from reality in that alls they c is not so much on the silver screen of 2/d but that stupid finding nemo bull s*it. People need to wake up and watch some movies like that of the foreign film called THE TRIPLETES OF BELLVILLE and just drop their jaws in awe. See, when one actually views a film of such caliber, they will believe in traditional animation once more. I must not be the one that believes that that's all though while working with traditional only. No no that would be suicide, but INTEGRATION is the key. Even in The TRIPLETES movie they used "effects" to bring out the exellence of the animation. So ya, just a lil' response and by the way I mean no harm in these responses, but coming to a common point in agreement is what I'm looking for you see, so ya.
-Happy Animation to all with a passion to do so.-
-HannaBarberaGuy-
If you are going to paint your cels buy a pair of cheap white stretchy gloves and cut out the first two fingers and the thumb. Nothing looks as horrible as seeing finger prints zipping by the screen, and this is a great cheap solution.
Don't do nothing because you can't do everything.
Mirage is my main tool
see this link http://forums.awn.com/showthread.php?t=224
on the Mirage site you can download a fully functional demo
and also check out this guy:terrence walker http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/user_twalker.php
he makes anime style animations
Peter Wassink - Digital 2D Animator