Hello.
I understand about story and it's importance...story aside...is there any good animation (as in the "craft" of animation) on TV.
To be honest, I have almost given up the idea of seeing a series, special, etc. animated well.
Chuck Jones must be rolling over about the quality of the craft.
Anyone,,,Beuller...Beuller....
Thanks
Larry
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—
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
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The E-surance ads are really nice done.
The Geico Gecko ads always look good.
Ditto with the couple of Robin Hood flour CGI commercials.
The effects animation for Chaotic was supervised and set-up by the great Joe Gilland--even if the show's character animation ( in Flash) is weak.
The Purex bathroom tissue ads with the bears are good.
I like the Chevron commercials a lot.
I do not watch many animated series these days, so I cannot speak of a lot of them, but I do know there's a few that are well done. An "older" one--couple of years old--called Iggy and the Cockroaches was really funny and well done.
There's one that just a series of 30 second bumpers on Teletoon up here--I think they are called Doodles--look like a student film, albeit a well thought out one. They are always consistently good.
For feature quality.........no, you will not find very many samples at all, if any on TV. A few try, but the limitations usually dog them. There are a few good examples that employ limited animation principles and work well with that context, like those I mentioned above.
Honestly, I cannot think of very many animated series or specials throughout the time I have been watching TV (40+ years) that have been better than just "okay".
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Cat scratch was so damn close to the old stuff I grew up with but it doesnt quite hit the mark.
William Wright, its you! the hero of KVATCH!
You should check out "Code Lyoko", each episode as a lot of new material in it. The characters themselves are ok, simple shapes with four basic stances.
"Storm Hawks" has a lot of energy but I not sure if that should count.
Maybe "Blue Dragon" is the one series that can be called almost good.
If we move out side of prime time, you should check out "Bleach".
"Doodles" play on one of the Nick channels down here in the lower 48, and they are terrific.
Whenever I see current TV animation, all it does is remind me how poor it looks compared to earlier TV animation. Late 80's/early 90's fare like Darkwing Duck, Animaniacs, and others, looks positively brilliant compared to what's running today. And that earlier stuff was pretty inconsistent in it's quality.
hmmm...
I think the animation on robot chicken is pretty decent.
El Tigre was pretty good too...
Sad to say, that's about it
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
Good call. For stop motion produced on the tiny budgets and short production schedules they have, it is pretty good.
Well, Chuck Jones never cared for ANY TV animation since its beginnings. I think it was in his second autobiography that he said "My cartoon The Dover Boys introduced alot of animation techniques that Hanna & Barbera would exploit nearly 20 years later".
So, in terms of what's on today, I'm sure his opinion would be "it's just the same old crap".
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I don't know about that.
The last project Chuck Jones worked on was Thomas TimberWolf, and that was a FANTASTIC webtoon, beautifully done with Flash. I'm sure he would have SOMETHING to say about all these Flash shows on TV today.
Let me think on that "good stuff on TV" for a minute.
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I find "drawn together" very well animated.
I'd like to chime in with Ken... but I'd add the CVS commercials to that.
Follow @chaostoon on Twitter!
We're kinda liking "Chowder" and "Camp Lazlo".
Whether these two are the art and craft of TV animation is, of course, subjective...:)
Cheers!
Splatman:D
SPLAT digital
I don't watch alot recently....don't get extended cable. But I discovered Pocoyo at another's house. Very Nice. Don't get FOster's but bought the DVD! Lovely.
I'd have to say Kim Possible, Foster's and the Mr. Men Show is some of the best animated TV shows out there.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I completely forgot about Kim Possible. I can remember being really impressed with their animation and the quality was pretty consistent from what I can remember.
The early episodes of 'The Batman' had some spiffy animation. I remember thinking "wow, korea's kicking our a**!"
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
tv is a conservative medium thats not the ideal place to look for something creative or inspiring. you wont see it on tv because of the broad range of subject matter but thier is a plethora of anime thats well animated
Doesn't that contradict?
If TV has got a broad range of subject matter, doesn't that FAVOUR finding something creative or inspiring?? Most TV shows broadcast have commercial motives placed way before artistic ones, the only reason they strive for uniqueness or differences at any level are for marketing reasons--which is pretty much the same for anything on TV.
Personally, I would not call a lot of anime well animated--certainly not in the traditional sense of animation. Anime tends heavily toward cycles, staggers and held cels as used in limited animation, its heavy on economy and design, but lightweight on actual motion. Anime tends to LOOK good, but since we are talking about shows that are "animated well"--most anime misses the mark as much as many western shows do.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I dunno, Ken. Sure Japanese animation isn't so much about physical action and acting but to me it qualifies as animation. Stylistically it picks up from Hanna-Barbera's action adventure stuff from the mid to mid-late 60s and has carried the ball into the 21st century. I much rather look at things if they don't have the budget to move them well to make them look appealing, graphically dynamic or funny looking. I think alot of produced and preproduced North American animation is frustrated feature animation. Money is spent on over-producing (too many executives and administration), over-writing, Over-directing, over-posing and then with a fraction of that cost, I assume what is left over from that inefficiency, having to spent on animating it over-seas and (I don't need to tell you :) ) to be brought back to be fixed by a revision dept! WTF? What about a get-it-right-the-first-time dept? :)
I mean, what does it say when independents can realize professional looking feature animation for a fraction of the cost big studios. Too top heavy...Okay now I'm O.t. and ranting....
Anyway just saying the Japanese have had the right idea about TV animation for ages. They may outsource too but if they do it's on their own continent.
Tv will generally be cheaper than feature unless it's a rare Simpson size hit,
If the animation is economized to its budget....I've never had a problem with that. As much as it was disparaged by old timers in the early days (And I lived through 3d in its early days being written off and Flash too citing amateur web stuff) I've always believed limited animation approach to be an economic realistic approach.
Speaking of anime, I've seen a few eps of Beck. Now that was good.
Lets try not to turn this into yet another anime vs western animation debate. Larry's original post asked about good TV animation execution and not story or style.
There are some good animation on TV, but you have to sift through a whoooooooole lot of crap to find it.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I am no anime fan but I must admit that a lot of TV anime shows have an edge over standard Western TV fare in terms of handicraft. It's true that the animation is often sub-standard (if you base your evaluation on the principles laid down by Morgan and Bartholomew - erm, I mean the Warner and Disney artists of the 1930s) and the design, well, let's leave that up to individual taste. However, there are many anime shows with very good layout, FX and staging.
Not really debating anime vs. Western cartoons...... Just saying for me it qulaifies as animation. It too ("anime") can have bad animation. To me there is only good animation and bad animation determined by how all the film elements work together, not literally technically just the character animation. I only tend to distinguish when comparisons are brought up.
Anyhow, Ken and I will settle our religious differences offline at a pub one day.:)
I have been watching everyone's posts in hope that something good would turn up...such as a TV series that is well animated.
But I guess the answer has to be commercials....because most of them would have the budget for good animation...especially national spots.
The problem is that the scehdule of commericals are not posted anywhere.
Oh well...
I will keep looking...
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
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Also commercials tend to be animated in house instead of farmed out over seas due to time frame and budget.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Hello Ken,
I was intrigued by the crazy amount of tutoring you have provided to the young bucks asking basically stupid questions about becoming an animator. They have the chosen to tackle a carreer that will most likely whoop their collective asses in one way or another. I will soon experience that myself since I start college in 2 days. But I have lots of reasons to do this, I hope to have conversations with you sometime because you have more experience than anyone here, I think.
I just joined the AWN forums tonight because I was searching something about animation and somehow I ended up here. I been reading a lot tonight about the subject, I found your posts a lot all over the site, I need to put out my opinions and experiences about animation since nobody here in Alaska is into animation. Actually, I have never had someone to exchange ideas about the subject. Hope that you are still active online. Have a great day!
Rene Poncedeleon, poncedeleon71
Oh no, I'm NOT the only experienced person here, just probably one of the more vocal. There's probably about a decent 6-12 other regulars with as much or more experience as I, and respectively different kinds of experience and viewpoints. Don't just sample from my words, read everyones.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Take a gander here: http://www.stashmedia.tv/collections/MG.htm
Lots of great animation and motion examples. Really sweet stuff!
(I even helped as a designer/animator on one of 'em ...shwing!):)
Oh, and Kens a hack!!!
Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo! Woop, woop, woop!
(imagine Daffy Duck doing the flippin'-chicken across the pond);)
Cheers!
Splatman:D
SPLAT digital
The only animation series I watch regularly on tv today are King of the Hill and the Simpsons. Neither one an award winning animation type series. On Saturdays I watch a few shows, but only just to fill the air time.
I watch Horse Land, and that thing with the 3d dragon and the girl that is a knight. Sad isn't it?
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Everything done in the US for The Venture Brothers is great. The design element is extremely inspired, in terms of characters, props and BGs. And a lot of the initial posing gives a very strong sense of character. This is the one Adult Swim show that actually improves on the Hanna-Barbera model instead of just caricaturing it in that 'it's supposed to be bad' kind of way.
That having been said, the animation itself is done in Korea, and can be pretty hit-and-miss. They do tend to have good priorities, and the animation only seems to go south in relatively unimportant scenes. And the FX animation is CG and doesn't merge very well with the hand drawn-- but then I felt the same way about Triplets of Bellville.
I also like all of the Bruce Timm stuff I've seen, on a technical level. He understands both animation and comic books. The original Batman series is the only one I own on DVD, (and have almost watched all of,) but I'm keen to see some Justice League Unlimited.
It does seem as if a lot of networks are opting for sub-par animation anymore for cartoons. Turning on Adult Swim lately makes me cringe with shows like Squidbillies, Assy McGee, 20 oz. Mouse, etc. Futurama was pretty well animated in the 2D/3D genre, Spongebob is pretty good for 2D and Moral Orel for stop-motion.
My favorite animation styles seem to be on The Animation Show. If the tour is coming anywhere near you, I suggest you check it out, always a good time.
http://www.animationshow.com/ScheduleHome
My Blog
At the risk of parrotting a certain prominent animation naysayer, I have a strong dislike for a lot of what children's line-ups offer today. I'm really, really sick to my stomach of shows about two-dimensional (high)school kids (two-dimensional as in poorly characterised, not drawn), their insipid little everyday adventures and the hokey messages they come packed with about the power of friendship, family, believing in yourself and your dreams and being your own person. Exactly when did Clasky Csupo go down that damnable path? "Rocket Power", "All Grown Up" and "As Told by Ginger" make me retch, retch, retch!
I really like Futurama, more than the Simpsons because it's a LOT nerdier, but the series' design and animation has comparably little to do with it. I guess Avatar is rather well-crafted (if you like animé) but that show doesn't really do it for me, either. I usually refer to it as "the bastard child of Son Goku and Princess Mononoke", may its fans forgive me.
Sometimes there are individual episodes which I like more than I expect, based on what I know about the series they're part of. I remember an episode of Disney's Aladdin, "The Garden of Evil", which struck me as particularly well written and animated the first and only time I saw it until now. I haven't seen it in ages, though, so maybe I'd change my opinion about it if I saw it again.
There's something about Spongebob but unfortunately my top favourite episode of it, "Rock Bottom", is among the earlier, slightly sloppier eps in terms of animation. A lot of clever ideas in that one, though.
I'm not sure about Flash as a crafting tool. Works pretty well in shows like "Foster's" but the slick, unimaginative design style of the new "George of the Jungle" is a big turn-off for me ...