Hi,
I've started a site named: www.yesthisismyday.com with a basic content and characters. I went through an introducing stage (almost) for nearly 1/2 yr and so far the feedbacks r possitive.
So my second step, ( plz allowed me to be as direct as I can) I'm looking for talented/ individual or teams to join me. I know I need short/meaningful/creative clip for yesthisismyday's characters.
The benefit is as boring and discourage as it sounds: you gain more experience working with an above avarage ( IQ, EQ) guy. And he is nice, honest, a decent( boring for women) type that you run into in your local church :D.
However, I can promise you 1 thing. You dont just get involve in this project to kill time/ with unrealistic/entrepreneur wannabe hope. I have a nice and down to earth plan and it's solid, creative, fresh and original.
All the works r done: marketing/ ads research, copyright patent pending with list of places to knock when we r ready.
In details:
I'm searching for:
1. animator passionate individuals/teams
2. Managers with skills of getting things done. "The doing things right" type. Having solid background in the greeting cards and gifts biz is a plus.
3. People in every paths of life that share the same passion --> Want to see impossible thing done! and to have a privilege to say - it's because of me!-
Besides the challenge of the task, the friendship (a plus free of charge:D ) you also have part of the pie, stock options ( a future steady income that set you free [that may be un cashable:rolleyes:])
I hope you do find this ads silly/dreamy and unrealistic along with the joy/fun to try and well to have a good laugh. www.yesthisismyday.com, my friends! When is yours?:D
Beo Nguyen - yesthisismyday
Well, you are not really offering anything that the other "free" work folks have offered--or am I reading this wrong?
A "solid" plan is all fine and dandy, but its not solid if there's no investors involved yet ( meaning no money).
Doing that kind of homework, having a genuinely solid plan WILL gain the attention of investors and get you capital.
As hip and friendly as you come across, its all just so much gloss without being able to offer something tangible to the endeavour.
Your integrity/honestly isnt a factor in it this(yet), nor are your intentions.
A sweet, sweet person can make the same offer as the most scurrilous con-man--the offer itself makes them essentially equal at the outset ( but not always at the close, though we are not at that point yet).
Honestly the buzzwords: "passion", "part of the pie", "stock options" etc are meaningless--because everyone uses them. To have stock you have to be incorporated as a company, and have worth etc.--something that can takes YEARS to become tangible.
I used to co-own a animation studio as a 30% stockholder/partner--a company that had been incorporated for about two years and had done about $250,000 to $300,000 of business each year before I left it. When I bailed out, and "sold" my stocks back to my partners, I got nothing because there were no tangibles.
Look here's the secret: its not just about money.
The "no free work mantra" that's spouted around here has a side to it that a lot of people don't consider. Offering SOMETHING tangible ( be it $50 or $500) gives you a 100% better chance of getting some kind of support than just offering a "promise". Most of these "projects" the forums here see don't even offer such piddling token amounts.
They get razzed and poked fun of in return--little wonder why.
Most people have some kind of financial resource they can tap into, even if its for an amount under $1000.
For LESS THAN $1000 ( $500 even ) and a half decent student animator, you can get a pitch package, with designs, and a 30 second animated promo--or at least some decently slick coloured and edited still images on video cued to some music and ad-hoc dialogue.
That can be enough to sell an idea to a network and get you a deal worth hundreds of thousands, or even millions.
But that first bit of coin has to come from your pocket.
Here's the second part of this secret........and I've said it over and over again: the coin never really leaves your pocket, because you can write it off as a business expense come tax time.
Look, if you are doing business in North American ( a probable assumption here) or in a place with similar tax laws, you typically CAN deduct the costs of making a short film or starting some kind of pitch package.
You can eat the cost at the start and then recoup it off your taxes ( in most cases) so its like the money spent comes BACK into your wallet.
And if you are NOT in North America and have different tax laws where you are, then take the time to research them, if you can, because that knowledge can possibly still work in your favour.
Most people "attempting" this seem ignorant of this simple premise, meaning they HAVEN'T done their homework, nor have they got a good plan in hand.
The truly serious and committed to their dream will somehow cough up the meagre funds to bring in skilled people to help them START in the realization their dream, knowing that they never really lose. They know that, at some point, they WILL recoup the expense.
Everyone hates loss..........really hates it, and the perception of loss is enough to kick in the mindset to avoid losing at all costs. So people want ( insist) on getting, or TRYING to get, something for nothing.
The real world doesn't work that way.
We see a large amount of people with their "great ideas" who appear to be unwilling to accept taking ANY kind of risk into realizing their own ideas. So why should anyone else?
And I meant it when I said its not just about money. A really good idea, with a SMALL amount of capital to offer talent will gain you people willing to invest their talent in your ideas simply because of the IDEAL behind it. There are people out there with the moxy to work on a idea like that.
Offering something to offset the labour involves tends to seal the committment of those particpating, but it has to be a tangible something.
Now, if I've got it all wrong, so be it--set me straight. Otherwise, what is different here?
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
funny thing is Ken there is another way of coming at you and its called Revenue Share. i got approached by a company here who liked some of the content i did and they wanted it ported for mobile phones.
i said i could do it no prob because i have the experience and means to test. when it came to pricing i said id like to get paid per second since they were such short clips (between 5-15 seconds each)
they were like no since its premium content we will give you a 50-50 rev share vs a 80-20.
i said all thats good but the amount of money i have to put online here (200 seconds worth) was all coming out of my pocket with ZERO risk to them.
thank you Ken,
you are absolutely right. But i'm not looking for employees here. I'm searching for partners. And I'm 100% sure they'll be happy after hearing my offer. An offer that they can't refuse.
again, I do appreciate your time giving me and people who read this post your advice. Sometimes, it's very nice to have people with experience coaching so that we can cut the time and energy following the wrong path. It's too expensive to fall our butts off in order to learn a lesson.
one more time, back to my sincerity and honesty I'm offering partnership here. I'm doing my homework, and it's telling me this is the time to go out and looking for a team (with the combination of skill, vision, passion, experience).
It's a must for those who want to succeed. I know I can't do everything. Im asking for help aslo.
the yesthisismyday is a concept related to greeting/gift biz. I came up with characters to promote and to get people looking at the site. And i know those characters will open opportunities to do many things. So, if you have the networking, or something that you think i may need, i'm always here waiting to listen.
I'm trying to build a brain of our future enterprise here, I prefer to start from the top. Because stupidity is really expensive, having people like you, Ken is very necessary.
Beo Nguyen - yesthisismyday
In comic books, what the progenitor of this thread is asking for is "royalty share". In films, it's called "deferral".
In comics, there is a reason why all artists are given a page rate ($ upon completion of a page of art accepted by the editor on behalf of the publisher deemed acceptable for publication) for all companies that make $ except for companies like Image comics. In general, people that take roayalty share make no money, despite best efforts.
Same for "deferral", in live action or animated films.
I have been a paid comics artist, and the only time I did NOT get paid properly was on a royalty share scenario with no $ for completed (and published) pages. Thank god I asked for an upfront advance, but even then, I made less than I would have being on welfare for that amount of time. And that was for Image Comics itself. After months of work.
So "yesthisismywhatever", you can have a dream, no prob there, but until you cite directly these entities that have $ that are interested in your site and characters and we can verify them, it all means free work with no pay.
Especially since you have not even stated any rudimentary contractual terms for the animators you are calling for, not stating what they get/do not get in foreign versus domestic markets, or more importantly, for ancillary product derived from their efforts for you.
Until you address these issues, you have no right to ask anyone to do ANYTHING. SORRY, YOU DO NOT.
When I was a mere 20 years old, I had to read, digest and comprehend a contract over 24 pages long from Warner Bros, and realize the upshot:
\
"we give you a wage upfront, count your blessings, we own copyright and trademark in every country in every format until we decide the series is no longer of use to us."
Which for free work is CRAP.
But with a wage, guaranteed by law and notary publics, it meant something.
Until you offer a wage, you must offer DEFINED EVIDENCE of what animators will get for helping you realize a dream that will be in competition with homestarrunner.com which has been on DAVID LETTERMAN, and goes out on the net for FREE.
have YOU been on David Letterman?
NO?
Then you get no toonage til you pay. PERIOD. end of story.
I have been looking at making my own WAP site, but let me tell you this: I am COSTING IT OUT.
WHY?
So I know what I can pay people without getting screwed, but that's so I can PAY THEM so THEY don't get screwed, and I have BEEN screwed by publishers.
Repeating the cycle of abuse upon those who can draw/paint/write/animate helps no-one, and will not help you either.
If DC and Marvel and Dark Horse had to pay me, and pay other people when those companies began/were incepted, YOU must pay too, or offer some evidence of benefit to those making your dream happen. You have not.
Until then, there is no point in editing your posts, your message is the same.
[I]I'll work 10 hours a day for $350.
Andreas does the photoshop posters for Paramount, gets $700 per day at 7 hours plus an hour off for lunch.
You do the math as to which is a better deal.[/I]