Another thread on choosing a university?, oh ecec, how could you... :(

18 posts / 0 new

By ecec | Tuesday, June 27, 2006 at 2:25pm

But this one is different, I promise!

So - it's relatively simple to find threads or webpages listing "animation institutes" in North America. But if I decide to, say, focus on draftsmanship for a few years before getting into animation, where can I get more information on schools that do that really well?, that do a lot of proper life drawing, teaching perspective, with professors that emphasize principles over style, etc. I just have no idea where to begin to look to hear experiences and opinions on that kind of thing specifically, although, yes, like I've said, it's easy to find opinions on animation programs, but to stress the point - I'm trying to focus on drafting first.

and if anybody tells me to just go to the community college... >:~(

well i already tried that. it was quite the frustrating experience. :|

Tue, 06/27/2006 - 3:40pm

(Reply to #1) #2

ScatteredLogical

Go to a different community college. Kidding! But seriously, anything that forces you to commit in a situation like that is inexpensive conditioning.

I think you only need to take drawing kind of classes one or two times; beyond that, the best practice and experience is just using your own mind and developing your abilities.

I went to school with someone who transferred to RISD, and they accepted drawings that needed work, but supposedly they have lean mean fighting machines for teachers.

Tue, 06/27/2006 - 6:27pm

(Reply to #2) #3

wontobe

You are just vying for attention. :D

Tue, 06/27/2006 - 7:30pm

(Reply to #3) #4

DSB

Here's my experience in taking drawing classes... your mileage may vary.

When I went to a 4-year state university and took art classes, I found the teachers more fine-art oriented than illustration oriented. It didn't really matter what you drew, or even whether you drew (I did more than my share of bullspit collage assignments...).

I really learned much more about drawing when I took classes at...community college (ducks...) The instructors there were working professionals, not academics, and they taught more nuts-and-bolts stuff than "follow your muse" stuff.

You might want to focus your search around schools that have strong illustration programs. They tend to be more nuts-and-bolts too, and much less fru-fru fine art stuff. For example, Syracuse University has a highly-regarded illustration program.

Tue, 06/27/2006 - 7:50pm

(Reply to #4) #5

ScatteredLogical

It doesn't get as much mention on this forum, thanks to the CA major, but when I visited Ringling aside from the graphic design students -nothing- blew me away like the student work from their illustration program. Freakishly good.

Tue, 06/27/2006 - 11:23pm

(Reply to #5) #6

ecec

I'm sorry, I'm clueless - what do you guys mean exactly when you say "illustration" and "frufru artsyfartsy nambypantsery"? :)
Like, well, I'll assume you guys know what I meant what I referred to Williams and Bluth - is it safe to say they're talking about illustration-stuff and not "fine art"-stuff?
I mean, I don't mean to be contrary, because I appreciate the advice you guys are giving, but - Williams puts a huge emphasis on this proper, classical, formal life-drawing/perspective. One can see the results of such an education in the animation he, his mentors, and others of his ilk have done. So that's what I'm keen on, that's what I want to pursue. So if anything anybody's talking about doesn't have that going for it, I'm not interested.
I just looked at Ringling's illustration portfolio on its website. It doesn't really seem to square with what I think of when I think classical perspective/life-drawing, nor does it resemble some of the examples in Williams' book. But then - what do I know. :|

Wed, 06/28/2006 - 2:08am

(Reply to #6) #7

Animated Ape

Check out www.laafigart.com

Aloha,
the Ape

—

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

Wed, 06/28/2006 - 10:03am

(Reply to #7) #8

DrSpecter

The myth of 'fine art' is that it can't be taught or learned. But there are many schools willing to take your money to tell you this. About fifteen years ago, I went to Antioch College for a year. Rod Serling's alma mater. I think he might have been the last one to actually graduate. Everybody seems to either drop out (like me) or just keep changing their majors. Trust fund kids.

I took a drawing class while I was there. There was this one guy who had red hair, so he wore a beard and kept his hair cropped short so he could look like his hero, Vincent Van Gogh. One day in class, the teacher asked for a definition of perspective. Neither he nor half the students there were familiar with the concept, or used it in their work. Starting that day, the class became pretty remedial.

Antioch doesn't give letter grades. You just get a pass/fail and an evasive "evaluation" with a lot of 'shows improvement' kind of comments. Last I heard, students have to get written permission to touch each other. So much for liberal art school.

A lot of teachers there just tred to shove their own styles down student's throats, which ends up being a handicap. I'd drill the recruiters about basic stuff like construction lines and actual perspective drawing classes. Those are the things that can be taught, and that make you employable.

As you learn draftsmanship, make sure and do character sheets. I'm just learning that now. If I draw a character I like, I draw them from different angles, doing different things. I spend a lot of time on a sheet full of pencils, making sure they look good from all angles, and that they're consistant. I can get a design I like from one angle very easilly, but that stuff's a lot harder and is pretty particular to cartooning.

Wed, 06/28/2006 - 11:55am

(Reply to #8) #9

ScatteredLogical

Just to clarify, my visit to Ringling was in the real world. Most of what I saw isn't on their site; there must have been some student gallery being shown that day.

Mon, 07/03/2006 - 12:23am

(Reply to #9) #10

ecec

Whoops, I forgot to respond. :(
Thanks for your replies everybody!

Mr. Ape's link is wowamazing!, and really got my wee heart all a-flutter!, until, upon reading further, I found that they only accept 15 (or 25, I forget which) students per, uh, year or term or something. With it being the case that I still can't really copy Preston Blair's eggheads, well, that rules that school out for me for a while.

Have I ever told you guys I haven't done much drawing?, that's important!, if I hadn't. :( I can make neat stills drawing "flat" (by lines, not by shapes), but, that's not going to cut it.

so i guess the real question all along really was, "how do i jumpstart?" :-o
I'm copying those eggheads the best I can!, but it's a lot like a caveman bashing rocks against one-another until he finds the magic two that produce some spark - i really have no idea what i'm doing beyond the vague idea of the immediate task.

I've been considering Vilppu's correspondence course, but I worry I've not developed enough for that either. :| Any of you done it?, anyone think that's a good idea?

Anyhow, thanks again for being patient with all my retarded questions. :D

Mon, 07/03/2006 - 1:27am

(Reply to #10) #11

ScatteredLogical

I don't think it's retarded. The very point of questioning is to save yourself from retardation =)

With Vilppu's deal, does it say you need experience to do it? I imagine if you're using it to learn to draw a program that helps you get better will allow you to produce improvement, not expect you to walk in there with amazing amounts of talent. That said anyone good stays that way by sticking with what they're doing.

Mon, 07/03/2006 - 3:33am

(Reply to #11) #12

ecec

It is a bit retarded though, when taken in the context of a forum with so many educated/professional people, in comparison to where you guys are at -- you guys who all didn't make the same retarded mistake I did in not beginning to draw until I became an adult. :P But anyway - thanks again! :)

I re-read the webpage with all the information on it (a few times actually!, just to be sure!), and it doesn't seem to say that one needs to necessarily be at any particular level of skill in order to start. So unless someone writes in today with a contrary opinion, I think I'll start the correspondence course and order some of his DVD's, get started. :) (Here's the link in case anyone else wants to read up on it! http://www.vilppustudio.com/corespondance.htm )

Mon, 07/03/2006 - 8:21am

(Reply to #12) #13

DSB

ec, I think you may be your own worst enemy at this point. I see a lot of negativity in your posts (I can't draw the eggheads, I stupidly didn't start drawing until grown, etc.) All of that negativity feeds back into what you're trying to do and you end up seeing what's wrong, rather than seeing what's right and what's improved.

What you can or can't do right now is only important within the context of where you start from. Starting when you did is something you can't do anything about - the past is the past. Even the experience level of others on this board is irrelevant, except in how you can leverage it to help improve your own skills.

You're trying, and you're concerned about your growth - both are good. I know it's hard, but try to put the negatives in context, focus on the positive, and move forward.