Hey! :)
So I read the article on AWN today about the Cintiq and "Paperless Animation", and whereas I disagreed I thought I'd post a few thoughts and experiences - just so they're out there.
To get right to the point: try before you buy. If you do and you can work with the Cintiq, awesome!, but whatever you do don't buy one up on the basis of good reviews like those on AWN - like I did. I really regret it.
There's no way to properly calibrate the stylus to the cursor. Oh - there's a utility. But you can run through it a million times and you'll never get a dependable calibration. There might be one square half-inch on your screen where it lines up - but everywhere else it's going to drift, and noticeably. It's just nothing like drawing on paper, where you move your hand based upon what you see - and get a natural resulting mark from the movement of your hand, fingers, should, etc. With the Cintiq, the angles, the curves, the twists, the lines - they're always "off" and there's nothing to be done about it, it's like trying to sketch on a waterbed. The calibration utility asks you to "click in the center of two x's", one on the upper left corner and the other in the bottom right. Pretty low-tech calibration - why only two points? Why not a center point to balance it out? Why not all four corners? Why not some calibration presets, done by their techs in their labs, for different angles/distances - so things are perfect? I don't know - maybe from a theoretical, mathematical viewpoint, you only "need" two...but with these problems I'm having, I wish it was more thorough.
The WinXP drivers are from, I believe, October. Despite incompatibilities with programs like Painter 9.
The pen has trouble with certain tilt angles necessary due to the problem of having one's hand/arm over an area they need to be drawing in. It'll "skip", in such situations.
The film over the Cintiq's screen is very, very delicate. I have two big scratches on my monitor - and I have no idea how they got there. I don't wear any rings or watches, my nails are trim - but somehow, in the course of normal use, there they are.
All these little hassles really detract from the overall experience, and more and more often I find myself sketching in pencil, scanning, then using the Cintiq solely for digital inking and painting. If you're lucky enough to be part of the majority that have nothing but praise for the machine, awesome!, congrats!, but definitely give it a try first if you can, or you might end up like me. :|
I just read that article and it left me with some questions, so I did some search and found your post. The first thing that poped into my mind was that the article was a paid advertisement, I hope that it was not
Did you try to do an exchange or just return the product?
The problems you are having are significant and they would keep me from buying this product. It sounds like the scratches could have come from your forarm or maybe even your pen. One little piece of dirt on the tip of your pen while you are drawing, not good. A sells rep told be that the screen would not scratche easily but if it did a new surface can be applyed.
I remeber someone, I think it was here, was talking about heat from the screen while it is being drawn on. That the screen produces enought heat that drawning on it would get unconfrontable in a short about of time.
I am going to keep my eye on this and I hope all the issues get worked out.
I am trying to do as much research as I can before I buy.
I don't have any personal experiences, but every professional I know that has used a Cintiq swears by them.
I also checked out a Cintiq demonstration for traditional animation. I got the DVD from www.digitalinnovator.com, and it was a demo from Happy Trails Animation Studios. I did notice a few times when the Cintiq added a line that wasn't supposed to be there during some rough animation drawing, but 99.99% of the time, it was right with what the guys were drawing and looked amazing. They did mention the drawing surface in the DVD and did comment on how it was pretty durable and had a "tooth" to it so it felt like drawing on paper.
Was this a 21UX you were using, or the smaller 17 one? I think there might be some big differences.
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I've got the 21UX, not the 17 inch model.
I don't mind the heat so much. If you're sensitive to heat, it could be a problem - but just put on a pair of normal animating gloves, you won't feel it - it certainly doesn't burn. The temperature gets pretty high, but it just doesn't transfer between the screen and your skin too much - it's like holding the bowl of a smoking pipe.
I haven't tried to get an exchange or return. I've been hoping against hope that I might be able to get it working the way I want it - somehow. Pretty foolish I suppose - but it's been a few months now, and now that it has those scratches, I don't think my chances are very good at a return. :|
I don't know how to explain the drift really - but if they filmed the demonstration from more than a foot away from the screen, you might just not see it. It's like the drift is always "added" onto whatever movement you make - so drawing anything big just doesn't come off right, it's an utterly different movement than what you'd use on paper, because you have to compensate for the drift at different points in your stroke. You're forced to draw with the cursor and not with the pen itself, if that makes any sense.
Anyway CC, you're at SCAD, right? If I get accepted, I'll let you try my Cintiq in the Fall. :) You'll see what I mean!
I've had mine for a month now and yes I can feel its warm but not too warm. It's never bothered me and I keep it very cool in my room. Ever put your arm on an icy surface ? Actually I rather enjoy the warm touch. Those drawings I did for Saj's design I did in ten minutes and I am surprised how similar the look is to my own pencil work. This surface is incredibly thin compared to any other monitor and for me it is pretty perfect.
Now assuming you have the latest drivers it will take time to learn how it responds but I have had no problem adjusting and I have several character designer and art directors who like myself fell in love with it. If you have "the hand" it will serve you well. I don't know how the windows drivers work but the Macs are pretty seamless.
So last, about your scratches. Do they misguide the pen ? If not than they are more of a nuisance than serious damage. You should contact Wacom by email and ask what the cost of replacement is and if it isn't too much then do it. And yes, if the damage occured after it probably isn't a warranty claim. If it is acrylic as they claim though then possibly you could polish it out. It might destroy the tooth or but really, thats a pretty tough surface so you would know if you were scratching it. Its a mystery .
Hi! Thanks for your input Darliester - and congratulations on your recent decision to take an independent course!
What do you mean by "the hand"? :)
Unfortunately I'm using a PC, not a Mac. It does seem like the Wacom is "intended" for a Mac and just "supports" PC - I suppose that could be part of the problem?
The scratches don't misguide the pen, and don't show too much because, thankfully, they're near the very top of the screen. Neverthless - if they had happened nearer the center, they would be really frustrating, so I do mention them.
Really, I could put up with the scratches - no problem bothers me, really, except for the fact that I have problems putting details over my shapes due to the drift. Outside of a little space near the center of my monitor, the cursor drift is really bad. Maybe it's something I'm doing wrong - like sitting too close, or drawing too small, or maybe the programs I've been using are throwing it off a bit (for some reason it seems like it tracks much better in Microsoft Painter than in Bauhaus Mirage...) I'm always trying new ways to get around the issue. I'll keep at it - because i want it to work out well, everyone else loves it.
What program did you use to make the sketchy drawings in the other thread? :)
Just in Photoshop CS Ecec. Hmm, that drift problem has me puzzled but you cleared it up I think when it was not consistant between programs. It definately sounds like you are getting a variation because of the drivers. In Windows, did you delete the original wacom drivers before installing the new Cintiq drivers ? I remember doing that when I set it up. I also killed the pen button and the right side buttons. They were driving me crazy (I was always hitting that fricken pen button) and I got used to hot keys.
Now here is the problem with it for animation. I find Mirage too complex. I haven't tried yet but I might try it in Toki line tester but unless you have a virtual inbetweener you are limited to bouncing balls and just keys. Any fine animation would be impossible. It's great for designing and painting but I doubt at this stage it could fine animate well on it . It probably would be terrific for 3D animating because the computer does the inbetweens (where is that inbetweening software based on vectors ?).
Yes if you are drawing too small you will get more drift. I use two monitors, One old 17 inch for program tools, the Cintiq to do full screen drawing. My Cintiq is set to 1344x1008. You might try making the monitor bigger ( you aren't working 640x480 are you ? ) . Could that be it ? COuld you be working in too low a resolution on the screen ?
My Cintiq is set to 1600-1200. I thought that was the "recommended" resolution. :)
No, I didn't delete any old drivers. I have never used a Wacom-anything onthis computer before, so I didn't think I'd have any.
Why would fine animation be impossible in Mirage? It seems very straightforward to me. Any frame that you draw shows up - so you can draw anything. I did some experiments animating the action-line and basic skeleton of a character on ones, and it turned out all right.
Thank you!
Can you do tight inbetweens in it ?
It uses whatever you draw - so if you can draw tight inbetweens, you'll have them. :)