Well, year one is a kind of fundamentals of art and design. Acutally, I'm being allowed to skip that year and go right into year two, which is very hands-on and assumes you've got the fundamentals down. I'm kind of thinking of it as a cartonnist's boot camp.
Sketch 2d, thanks for your post, because it may clear things up for some people. You are correct about Ringling not really being technical at all. We have no scripting classes, and while we are taught the basics of rigging sophomore year, most juniors and seniors choose to use automated rigging scripts to allow them to get to the animation part of production much more quickly. Acting is the #1 focus, with acting classes being part of the curriculum sophomore year. For many years Ringling has had a close relationship with Florida Studio Theater. We've had people from there do voice acting for us this year and I learned a tremendous amount working with them.
If you decide to go to Ringling, you won't be making it to the beach too often! I just wanted to be honest!
Also if you are concerned about the commons food at Ringling, take comfort in knowing that the new student government has brought the issue up and is going to work on it until it is solved! If I weren't about to graduate in 2-3 weeks, I would definitely be helping too.
@ animated ape thanks for the info man well am just a poor artist when it comes to human anatomy or animals otherwise am an ok sort of artist .
2ndly what is the duration of the BFA course and what wud be the total expenses of the course? well am more intrested towards 3D animation which i think doest really require too much of drawing skills ..does 3D animation too require strong drwing skills??
lastly does AAU provide any kind of scholarships or financial aid?? well for the MFA course is $18000 per year can u just estimate the total other expenses by the end of the year? can we work as soon as we start the masters programme? if yes for hw many hours ???
regards,
At an Art and Animation school, you'll start with fundamentals like design and drawing which, along with studies in areas like color theory, digital video editing, and computer applications, will help you build a solid foundation of the skills you'll need. From there, you'll build an ability to express your ideas in pictures and words, gaining a strong working knowledge of storyboarding, scriptwriting, scenic layout, 2D and 3D animation, digital video editing, and more.
They will hire the 3D person. The reason- the studios know that training a
traditional animator to go totally 3D has about a 50% success rate, and takes months of training. (I suspect you know that since you were from Disney).
On the other hand, the 3D hire would represent no risk as far as adapting to
the technology, and would quite possibly be productive from day one. Which
makes the most business sense?
Okay, you have GOT to be a freshman, because I really thought animators who thought that way were extinct.
Listen.... a studio would rather hire an animator with a solid background in traditional skills to switch to 3D than a technical master in... say, Maya.
Why? Because the time-tested fundamentals of animation carry over to any medium, whether it's traditional or 3D or stop motion or Flash or whatever. Maya is the current "flavor of the month". In a year or two, there will be a new flavor. What will happen to that 3D person? He'll be replaced by someone who knows how to animate.
Where did you hear that 50% stuff? ANOTHER freshman?
Hi Mleen, and welcome to the AWN Forums. Yeah, there are a lot of options in the Bay Area. I went to the Academy of Art College, now University for four years. It's a good school, and I think they have a good 3D animation program, I was in the traditional department. I would not recomend Cogswell. I've heard good things about De Anza, and SF State University is, or at least was on PIXAR's list of schools on their website. I don't know much about their program though. San Jose State also has a really good Illistration program, but I don't know if they teach animation. You can also look into AnimationMentor.com. It was set up by animators from PIXAR and ILM. They only teach character animation. No modeling, rigging or lighting. It's mostly Maya, but you can do your animation assignments in any medium you want.
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Oh, VFS is a two year program now. I remember hearing about it being a one year program. A 6 month crash course on art & animation fundamentals and 6 months to put a student film together for the industry. Needless to say, many people found it rough.
A two year program sounds much more viable. (btw, I went through a 3 year program a found it to be just right, office and/or financial politics aside ;) ).
For someone really interested in developping 3D animation skills, is it really importent to get a 4-year program ? Isn't a 2-year program (like Ex'pression one more tech apparently) sufficient ?
Also, does anyone know the animation / video game job market situation ?
I've heard that the game industry is doing very well right now ... And, there're more and more demands for 3D animation. I read this article where the author was saying: "There are many career opportunities for creative and talented people in the multimedia industry. The industry is currently at a point in its evolution where entry and advancement are not tied as closely to academic achievement or credentials as to the quality of a person's contribution to the project. Enthusiasm combined with experience and talent often generate employment offers". What do you think ?
How could I forget San Jose State? They do have an animation program. The students there worked on a film that was screened at Sundance this past year. I think their program is also connected somehow with DreamWorks, but I'm a bit fuzzy on that.
Im a highschool student and I'm starting to look at colleges.
My deal is that Ive always been interested in film and was planning on a film major, but recently realized my love for animation (especially 3D like from pixar and dreamworks and anime produced by studio ghibli =] ).
So now my dilemna is finding a school that has both a good film and animation program, it seems the best schools mentioned for animation (like ringling) only specialize in animation. SCAD seems to be decent in both areas but i dont know how serious the programs are and whether the school will help you get a job right after school. Any suggestions?
I would love to work at Pixar one day, everything Ive read about it has impressed me a lot. However, their page on reccommended schools seems to be down so i cant look at it, does anyone know what it is?
Another thing....
I dont mean to sound like a feminazi but is this field dominated by men? Or is it pretty level?
Ive always got the impression that there's more men in the film and animation bizz than women.
the majority of the peolpe on this post seem male.....
I mean, It doesnt really matter to me.....I just hope it doesnt affect job chances if its out of the ordinary in the business.
Ive read like, 20 of the 10000 pages of this post. Its an interesting discussion =)
And sorry about my retarded grammar......im at school and its like 9 but my brains still not really in gear yet for the day haha
I know the Academy of Art University in San Fransisco has strong departments in both animation and film. Give them a look.
As for all the men. Yes, the majority of animators and artists are male. It's not because the guys don't hire women, it's just that there aren't too many that go into the animation art side of this business. This is just a guess, but for artists, I guess it's about 80/20 male/female. A lot of female producers, coordinators and the like, but not artists.
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I think the great illustration program at San Jose State includes traditional animation, and, last I heard, computer animation was added as well. I do know that their students get hired at places at ILM, Lucasarts, etc.
Hello all, I'm new to the boards- thinking about becoming an animator when older (15 years old now) and i've been looking into possible animation schools to attend after highschool.
My favorite one that i've found so far is Joe Kuberts school of comic book art and animation.
what are you guys' oppinions on this school? is it worth it? do you think there are better schools than it?
I have to give kudos to all that have participated in this thread, it's been balanced, with touches of passion on both sides, but none the less informative.
My days of even thinking of going back to school are over, and I almost shined this thread on, but it was well worth the read. Bravo AWN for a thoughtful, balanced thread, that will certainly help future students balance their choices.
I’m new to the forms. I’m at the point where I need to choose a school. I have been admitted into Savannah and University of California Davis; both are on Pixar’s school list. I would be grateful of any advise or stats on either school. My parents are reluctant to let me go to SCAD and would prefer that I obtain a "real/traditional education" side note my two older siblings are prodigal children ones a physician in dermatology and the others just got promoted to international business with GAP so I have a lot to live up to. =/
Okay, you have GOT to be a freshman, because I really thought animators who thought that way were extinct.
Listen.... a studio would rather hire an animator with a solid background in traditional skills to switch to 3D than a technical master in... say, Maya.
Why? Because the time-tested fundamentals of animation carry over to any medium, whether it's traditional or 3D or stop motion or Flash or whatever. Maya is the current "flavor of the month". In a year or two, there will be a new flavor. What will happen to that 3D person? He'll be replaced by someone who knows how to animate.
Where did you hear that 50% stuff? ANOTHER freshman?
C'mon Animation Mentor guys... back me up here!
Um........
First, Jim is not a freshmen. Far from. :p
I wasn't even going to post, just lurk... but you brought it on sir.. here it goes!
Jim is also correct in his assertion that recruiters would rather higher an animator who can animate well in 3D over 2D. Why? Because it's another skillset, a VERY IMPORTANT skillset where they do not have to waste time or money training for months at a time and hoping that the animator will understand what is going on.
I am not knocking 2D whatsoever. It's beautiful and honestly, some of the best animation and stories are still in 2D where 3D has not yet surpassed in the sheer magic of animation.
However, do not dare believe that you will get a job as an animator in the 3D animation industry because you are just amazing in 2D. Companies are not willing to spend extra time and money, especially since they are probably hiring because they immediately need someone to come in and do what needs to be done so that the show, movie, or game needs to be pushed out for the deadline.
I have been on recruiting trips and also spoken to many recruiters... if you do not know how to use 3D tools then your chances of getting hired in the games or movie industry is slimmer to none.
Your statements, Mr. cartoonchaos, makes me wonder whether you know anything at all about the industry upon of which you speak so fondly. Jim and Larry L and Ed Gavin all know. They are all professionals in the industry. If you are also, then I apologize, but sir, you sound like the one who is "ANOTHER FRESHMEN"
Since there are no graduates from Ringling that have posted, I'll be the first to start.
I graduated from Ringling last year in 2005.
I was one of the fortunate ones to be picked up from Activision while I was still in school. Currently I work at Neversoft (Tony Hawk Franchise).
Sidenote: We just hired a new animator who graduated from SCAD. Rob. He's a good animator and nice guy. (:
There were earlier statements about Ringling Animators not knowing anything about tradiational animation or drawing fundamentals in general. That statement is completely and utterly false. The first and only introduction to animation that students undergo in the Computer Animation Program at Ringling is traditional animation. Given, that is not the focus, but the teachers at Ringling understand the importance of understanding the concepts of Traditional Animation to translate into 3D. Also, because of Ringling's portfolio requirements, and the Computer Animation Program's specific art portfolio requirements, the animators accepted into the program do have backgrounds in traditional art media. I had NO 3D when I applied to the CA program at Ringling. All my work was painting, drawing, and figurative. Ironically enough, the animator alumni I hang out with in Los Angeles are constantly trying to get better and better at drawing and traditional art in general and often spend much of their freetime in such activies.
When I started at Ringling, our class began with 55 students. At the end, as Jim mentioned, there was only 30-some odd. The courses are intense and the work load is insane. Flat out.
Someone mentioned the beach.... in the 3.5 years I attened Ringling, I saw the beach 4 times... and I even spent summers in Sarasota when school was not in session.
Relationships/girlsfriends/boyfriends have been lost during the course of being in the Computer Animation Program at Ringling.
I barely spoke to my parents, whom I am very close with, even though they were two hours away in Orlando.
So in the end, I can sum up my expereince at Ringling as intense and completely insane.
Would I do it again? Freaking absolutely. I'd pay for the tutition again, take out loans, and dive right back in. Why? Because I know I would learn so much more.
The CA program at Ringling doesn't just teach you a program or "how to animate." It teaches you how to see and how to think and how to go about solving a problem.
There was a statement made earlier that CA at Ringling only teaches you animation and story and less technical. COMPLETELY UNTRUE. I myself am a Rigger/Technical animator. Another graduate form my year is a rigger, another a Pipe Line TD, and another a Lighting TD, all at Sony. A graduate from 2004 is an FX artist, just worked on Ice Age 2. Not all the graduates from Ringling become sole "animators" At least half go off into modelling, rigging, lighting, texturing, you name it... It's all dependant upon the skillset of the individual artist.
So in conclusion, if you want to learn 3D, art, story, animation, thought processes... I vouch for Ringling.
No school can guarantee jobs! I remember when there were no jobs for lawyers. Right now in Ontario there are no jobs for art teachers, and when i was younger there were no jobs for elementary school teachers. Things can go in cycles. Last year all the animation companies were desperate for 2D computer animators. Our school was visited by recruiters from Vancouver, Ottawa and the east coast! We are in Toronto. I'll let you know what happens this year.
You have a legitimate gripe if you were assured there would be a good job with a big salary. No one can guarantee that! There are also questions to ask about curriculum, class size, length of the program, and faculty.
Our tuition is very affordable (our mandate is to be available to talented individuals), so the amount of debt is much less than at most top schools. Our curriculum is very deep,the number of students employed has been very high (because the industry has been flourishing) and we prepare students for the real world. However, there will still be people who don't find jobs.
I haven't seen your portfolio or demo reel. I know nothing about your professionalism. All of these factors come into play. Right now you need to accept your situation, figure out what you need to work on to get a better demo reel and portfolio together, and try again.
Years ago (at another school) I had a student who didn't get any offers from top companies. His girl friend got 3 offers, and the two of them took off for California. About a year later I received a fax from him. He'd studied more, redone his demo reel and portfolio, and was offered more than one job at a top company. I appreciated his taking the trouble to let me know.
I hope things get better for you.
I have been to the Max the Mutt site, and found nothing about tuition fees. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right place.
When I was in the application process, they said VFS had an 80% job placement rate in the industry. They also said that all a company had to do was fill out some paperwork to hire an international. The class before mine-- CA64-- was about nine people, and mostly Canadian. That 80% rate held true for them. Of my class-- 23 students, if I remember right-- last I heard, one Canadian had a full time job at a small studio and another had gotten an interview there, and two internationals had gotten some freelance work. One of those had been doing freelance before enrolling and he was relying on his old contacts. He had married a Canadian woman to stay. The other freelancer lives in upper Washington.
We were told by the teachers that, due to the tax credit program, studios were reluctant to hire internationals. In fact, it had only happened once in the history of the department. I think that might be down a little from "80%".
When we did our studio tours at the end of the year, two of the five studios were virtually empty because all the animators had been laid off when the shows had been outsourced to the Philippines. The shows they were working on were Flash. Everything up to the basic posing got done in Canada, and the motion tweens, etc, got done overseas.
I'm not saying all private schools are like that, but it exists. My advice is still to get everything in writing and show it to a lawyer. The economy is in terrible shape, and animation is a pretty frivolous industry.
The one thing I can say is that I am improving. Hopefully, in six months the stuff I'm doing at this point will be as embarrassing to look at as the stuff I did at VFS is to me now.
I wasn't even going to post, just lurk... but you brought it on sir.. here it goes!
I don't know who you are and this is your first post, but you are making a mess out of a discussion until this point was civilized, informative and adult.
I have a suspicion of who you are and have now added you to my ignored list.
I’m new to the forms. I’m at the point where I need to choose a school. I have been admitted into Savannah and University of California Davis; both are on Pixar’s school list. I would be grateful of any advise or stats on either school. My parents are reluctant to let me go to SCAD and would prefer that I obtain a "real/traditional education" side note my two older siblings are prodigal children ones a physician in dermatology and the others just got promoted to international business with GAP so I have a lot to live up to. =/
That's a shame that your parents don't want you to follow your heart. I've seen it happen a lot. All I can say is, don't let that hold you back. It's infinitely more important that you do what you love rather than what will make you rich, important, or well-liked.
Luckily, animation pays well, and people love to do it.
Sorry I can't help you on the schools there.
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
lastly does AAU provide any kind of scholarships or financial aid?? well for the MFA course is $18000 per year can u just estimate the total other expenses by the end of the year? can we work as soon as we start the masters programme? if yes for hw many hours ???
I think these are all questions the AAU website should be able to answer. I think the program is a 4 year program.
For 3D animation, you don't need super strong drawing skills. Not as strong as a traditional animator, but you should be able to draw quite above average.
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
So, I just read through the 49 pages of this thread, ok, I skimmed a few posts but I pretty much read the entire thing. You guys all have plenty of opinions about SCAD, Ringling, and Gobliens, and created an insightful discussion about them. Now I'm interested to hear what you guys, especially those with experience in the industry, think about CalArts for character animation (expecially in recent years) and how good of a job does their handful of computer animation electives do in teaching 3D.
fyi, I've been admited but I was also admitted elsewhere so insight on this topic is greatly appreciated.
CalArts, as far as I know, is where you want to be if you want a program that emphasizes traditional over computer animation -- and a program that is like killer bootcamp from hell where you can feed off the creative energies of your fellow classmates. CalArts does have elective classes for computer animation, but it's not the core heart and soul of the program; I haven't seen any student films that weren't 2D/hand-drawn. That's as far as I know as a prospective outsider.
Normally I would direct you to the animatedbuzz forum (pretty much everyone there is at CalArts or is trying to get into CalArts), but since it's been down for about a week now, I can give you the DA sites of CalArts students and you can ask them yourself. :)
Haha. I didn't go to either Ringling or SCAD so I can't speak to either school.
From my experience, I work in TV animation and am learning 3D at Animation Mentor and hoping to get into features, if you are a student right out of school the studios are not going to hire you on as an animator straight out of the box. Two of my friends and fellow AM students got hired at Disney Feature about 3 to 4 months ago, and are still being trained. Right now they are doing fixes in clothing as stuff, not animating full character, but they are being groomed to do that. I think both came to AM from a 3D tech background. I know at least one of them did. Both of them know Maya, which is what Disney uses. Anyway, I think it's rare that students will be hired as animators straight away. They will all have to go through training, even animators from other studios have to be trained on the studios' software and work flow.
Welcome to the AWN Forums Robokeebot. I was wondering what position where you hired on for at Activision? Also the SCAD student as well? Most students seem to thing they will be hired as lead animators right out of school. I know I thought that. :D
Well Rodney, it sounds like this will be a tough choice, and which ever school you choose will be a good choice.
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
In another thread it's mentioned about 30-40k/yr....is that consistent with your findings? Or do you have a situation in mind that'd be more, or are you thinking about particular locations? I wonder sometimes if it does pay very well by itself but when figuring salary people account for downtime between jobs where you aren't bringing anything in, and then it gets averaged to something moderate...
As far as how graduates are faring out in the world, I know last year a great portion of the graduating class is now in the apprenticeship program at Disney, and a few others landed story jobs at Pixar and Dreamworks. And then a few others scattered off to various studios around the country (maybe the world). Other recent graduates have worked on Kung Fu Panda and Horton Hears a Who in both animation and story departments.
Of course, whether you find work or not is all about what you put into it and what you want out of it. Calarts isn't some magical place that will make you an amazing artist, although it will help. The reason Calarts graduates tend to be successful (if you call landing a job success... ahem) is because they are INSANE about animation. And that's a fact.
Here's a simple question hopefully, how easy do CalArts students get jobs coming out of senior year? I know they're far more traditionally focused than somewhere like Ringling. Do they get jobs just as easy, considering someone in this thread mentioned Ringling having 28 out of 32 graduates with jobs coming out earlier?
30-40 a year? That's the first time I've heard a figure so low. Well I can't of course speak from experience, but I've heard at least 50-60 right out of college, of course presuming you're talented and dedicated. Also depending on your training and degree too.
Anyway, I'm sure people higher on the chain (NOT entry positions) make 6 figures.
Even so, 30-40 isn't bad pay at all, ESPECIALLY right out of college. I guess it also depends on what your view of "paying well" is. I'm not really concerned with it too much... can't buy happiness, right? ;)
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
I can't speak for any school but Max the Mutt. If what you are telling me is true- and I have no reason to doubt you - the info they gave you was misleading and you should register a complaint. In Ontario, the Ministry of Training, Universities and Colleges is the governing agency. I would assume there is a similar agency in B>C>
(Tuition at Max the Mutt is around $10,000 a year for US and international students.The advanced diploma fourth year is a very long year and comes to more.)
When I speak about animation jobs I'm including all kinds- 2D computer and 3D computer. We also have graduates who go into character design, storyboarding and layout.
As far as jobs for US students is concerned, we have had interest from US companies in US students. They have the same difficulties getting Canadians across the border. There are jobs in the US. In fact, some smaller companies in places like Buffalo are having difficulty finding people.
I was surprised to read on this thread that only 10 to 20% of animation grads (US) are finding work. Something is wrong! Perhaps the schools aren't able to teach in as much depth because so many of them are BA programs. Perhaps the decline in HS art training means longer programs are needed. Perhaps they are accepting too many people who don't have drawing skills, and then aren't teaching fundamentals.
Animators are used in the video game industry as well as animation, and there is an increase in other applications of computer animation. Some of these jobs may not be your cup of tea, but there are jobs out there for qualified people.
Have you learned ToonBoom Animation Pro? There is a need for classically trained animators who can use that software. Thanks to ToonBoom I think classical animation will have a rebirth in North America.
This is not to indicate that being an animator is a cup of tea. It always seems that the artists don't get a fair shake, or at least that's my perception. I think the arts continue to be a difficult choice. Perhaps the internet will set us all free!
It's great that you haven't let your experiences dampen your passion.
I look forward to an announcement from you that you've been hired for a job you want.
I'm kind of curious now too. It was, 29 straight into jobs? 10 in film. And in this newer post, half are outside of character animation? Still, out of 45 students, 5 going into character animation for feature right out of school...sounds like a nice turnout to me.
Reminds me of this crazy old coot I know with a 10% rule... ;)
Amen, Jay. Gotta do what you love. If you love collecting garbage, well so be it.
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
Hello. In regards to your question... I can't be happier at Ringling. Every CA teacher I've had has been incredibly invested in the quality of our work, and ultimately, how well we are going to be able to fend for ourselves in the industry. There is a healthy balance between nurturing and ass kicking here. I feel like my teachers WANT me to succeed, and that means letting me know when I need to kick it up a notch (which often means all night work-a-thons, but who cares, thats life.) When it comes to story, it is easy to get stuck... and you think your story is broken... but the teachers are freaking machines, they take your story and chew it up, and hock up the Hope Diamond itself. The traditional animation portion of the curriculum ties in seamlessly with the CA portion (sophomore year), and the projects and subject matter mirrors between the two sections of our schedule. In the interest of not being verbose, I will say this: When it comes to talent, personality, teaching skills, and overall investment in student success... I'd put my money on the Ringling staff. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. No one can impress upon you how hard it is to be an animator. You work under constant pressure, and it sucks your life away... but we love it just the same. A good staff gets you through it. And I'm not the only one who feels this way. We all love our teachers. Hope that helps!
I’m new to the forms. I’m at the point where I need to choose a school. I have been admitted into Savannah and University of California Davis; both are on Pixar’s school list.
I was unaware that Davis had an animation program. Can you provide some details?
As someone who graduated from SCAD three weeks ago.... MY two cents.
All the schools come down to this: You get out what you put in.
Everyone has been counting how many films from each school got into Siggraph as a benchmark, which is a really lame benchmark. For example scads short film "The Potter" just won a friggin Emmy but yet was completely snubbed by Siggraph. Siggraph E-Theatre and Animation theatre are very politcal, and the quality level varies highly. I have seen amazing pieces followed up by complete crap, so again it's a bad bench mark.
Also all this talk of % of people placed... the driven people will find a way to get there, regardless where they are at.
SCADs biggest advantage far and away is facilities. They are better than a lot of studios. From our render farm, lab size, to our brand new motion capture facility. Also the sheer size of the department and people available is a great resource.
I did visit ringling when looking for a college but I really don't know a lot about its pros or cons besides what is accessible to any prospective student. If I were you I would be listening to students who have GRADUATED from Ringling and SCAD. Me? I am three weeks out of school, got flown out to multiple studios, and ended up being able to pick where I wanted to be. I start working for Lucas Arts tomorrow, so I am pretty darn happy. And all of my close friends found great employment quickly.
If I could do it over again? I would pick neither. I think west coast schools have a massive advantage over east coast, by virtue that 90% of the industry is right there. Why anyone thought the SOUTH EAST was a good place to put animation schools is beyond me.
But I have friends who graduated and are currently at every major school, and guess what... we all complain about more or less the same things. The school you pick is not going to make or break your carreer in the slightest, its completely your passion and drive.
PS- If anyone has any specefic questions about scad I am more than happy to answer them.
PPS- Listen to FuriousChi, he knows what he is talking about ;)
Hey, I thought I would just chime in here about the Calarts and Gobelins comparison.
I think I've mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if it was in this thread or elsewhere.
At Calarts, the character animation department has an exchange program with Gobelins, should interested students meet the required criteria (mostly being able to speak or learn to at least understand French). I've talked to a few people who have done a term at Gobelins, and some Gobelins students who have done a term at Calarts.
While I agree with Larry that Gobelins films are amazing, and probably at the top of what is being produced in animation schools today, there is a reason for it. At Gobelins, from what I understand, you are assembled into teams to work on a short, decided upon by popular vote, with each contributing artist working to his or her strength. So it's not too unlike a studio environment. At the same time, I've heard that there is a bit of frustration as far as creative opportunity, since some people are pigeonholed into doing only a few things and not gaining a totally immersive film making experience. And from an english speaking perspecive (I'm assuming that the majority of readers of the forums are fluent in english) it may be difficult to learn because of the language barrier. But if you're really comfortable with French, Gobelins is a very viable option. Again, this is just second hand information, not my own experience.
On the other hand, at Calarts, each student is in charge of creating all the things that go into his or her film, from story, storyboarding, layout, cinematography, animation, editing, sound, etc. All decisions belong to the sole filmmaker. It gives a more immersive film experience, which is probably why Calarts alum tend to be pretty successful. But it also leads to sometimes otherwise good films being left unfinished, and a really high stress level.
If you're interested in either of these schools, keep in mind that their approaches are quite different, yet the students who go there are extremely dedicated to their work. Sometimes to the point of fanaticism. haha.
I'm not too familiar with Ringling, but it seems to be the school to go to for 3d. I was accepted to SCAD after high school, but didn't attend because of the sheer volume of animation students there and the fact that a portfolio was not required for admittance. No offense, but it made me question the quality of the student body.
Amen! The faculty at Ringling is definately one of the things that makes it a great place to be. I love being here, and I'm proud to be a part of it.
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
The number of art classes you took in high school does not matter. All that matters is your portfolio and decent grades. When you get to art school, you'll see that everyone has a different level of artistic training. I went to a math and science focused high school where I had no art classes, but I still got into the art school of my choice. Focus on your portfolio. That is all that matters. And show that you have PASSION.
I'm sure you can email them to request more information about their masters program. That way you can get first hand info on cost, duration, requirements, etc.
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Especially for that rundown of Cal Arts...true, you have to speak French for Goeblins and have a dynamite portfolio to enter either program.
I would rank CalArts as the top in America.
The Goeblin's students do their FINAL projects as a team...and their do spend 3 or 4 months with "everything to thr wall" to finish their films for Annecy. But thats only at the very end for their education. ..true also is that their tuition total (2,500.00 a year) for 3 years is the same as ONE TERM at most other
schools...
Either school brings you a long way toward finding a job.
Hi all, I have just been accepted into the CalArts' character animation program, Ringling's computer animation, and USC's masters of animation. It's been a wild ride getting to this point but now is where things really get tough---where should I go??
PROGRAM FOCUS
I have been talking to grads, teachers, and current students from Ringling and CalArts. It seems to me a Ringling graduate is well rounded and capable in all aspect of the animation/gaming process (design and production; creative and technical). At CalArts all four years are focused on character animation, so a graduate will be an expert in that but might not know any of the 3d aspect of things (although CalArts does offer 3D courses, it's not the main focus). It seems to me CalArts focus more on the content of a story and artistic creativity rather than technical skill. How do you think that compares?
LOCATION
Would Ringling's location limit job opportunities? Most of the industry is in CA. I know that recruits go to Ringling but some people I know have been arguing that that's still not enough exposure in such a competitive field-- although a Ringling graduate highly disagrees. Does anybody else have any input?
JOB MARKET
I'd really hate to bring up the question of 2D vs. 3D again,
....but here it is anyway.
Coming from a traditional background (drawing/painting), I really love the 2D side of animation. However, now that the industry is leaning towards 3D, having 3D knowledge wouldn't hurt and maybe I'll find that I really enjoy it.
My career goal is to work on features in a well-known studio (subject to change). I'd love to have steady income but from what I've been reading here in the forum, that may not be a realistic expectation. With all that in mind, which school would be better for me?
REPUTATION/NETWORKING
CalArts says that 70% of Pixar is from its animation programs while a Ringling graduate tells me that there are more Ringling graduates in the field.
People seem to talk so much about CalArts....but is it just a name or will I be getting the education I paid for (31k/year)?
USC
I don't know much about USC's MFA. I just know that it's a three year program design for people with no previous animation background. Can anyone provide more info on USC?
All in all I understand both CalArts and Ringling are great schools and the quality of education is the result of how much effort I put into it.
Sorry for such a long post everybody! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
hello everybody i am ryan from INDIA doing my bachelors in computer science and engineering ( btech cse) . i am in 3rd year now,1 and half year to go before i complete my btech. i have a burning desire for animation and movies that because i have been a hardcore gamer from last 6-7 years and a v.big movie buff with a collection of over 500 movies ! well i want to ask few questions:
1) since am doing bacherlors in computer sci.and engg i am eligible for doing masters in animation ? if yes what is it called masters in animation or is it called MFA in animation
2) could you guys tell me the gud universites or schools that offer this degree at a cheaper cost ? and hw much does it cost to get the masters degree in animation
3) since i dont come frm arts side do i need to have basic drawing skills to get masters degree in animation ? secondly do i need to have v.gud acadmeic score in various fields
well my 10 th class percentage is 70 %
11 th class percentage is 65%
12 th class percentage is 65 %
and bachelors percentage in computer sci and engg is close to 55 %
am i eligible with this score?? and v.shortly i wud be appearing for the GRE exam.
I don't know who you are and this is your first post, but you are making a mess out of a discussion until this point was civilized, informative and adult.
I have a suspicion of who you are and have now added you to my ignored list.
WHOOOOA. Did I say something offense? I'm rereading my post. Anyone else tell me if I said something offense? You have a suspicion of who I am? Poo. ehehe.
How did I make a mess out of this discussion? I told it straight out like it is. If you have no 3D experience, do not know how to use a 3D program, the likliness of you getting hired in the gaming or movie industry is really slim to none. Is that offensive? Well, then you are in for a hard reality check.
Did I diss on SCAD? No. I have no idea what their courses are like nor their teachers. I saw the facilities, they are HUGE and spoke with a few of the instructors who all seem to be very nice and knowledgable. Did I not just say that Jim and Ed (From Ringling) and Larry L. (from SCAD) are industry professionals and know a hecka lot more than you or me? I gave my opinion on what Ringling is like and what I experienced and how much blood, sweat, time, effort, money, and emotion goes into the program.
If I said something offensive, really, I do apologize, but do not make things out of no where and now I am on the "ignore" list. That's just silly. *rolls eyes* I might have something valuable to say and you may have just missed it.
Hey Matt2001. (: How's it? What was your reel like? I don't remember names well, just demoreels. haha. I'm horrible with names.
Yeah.. that was me on the recruiting trip. I wasn't gonna bring that up but yeah. (:
I've worked with quite a few SCAD kids through the short year that I've been working. They all have been pretty keen. (: I worked with Alex Manresa at my first job at Activision. And now I'm working with his best friend Rob. (: Like you said, small industry, no? Everyone knows everyone. (:
Wanna talk about an even smaller world? I just browsed your webbie and see that you're from Gainsville,FL? (: My little bro goes to college there.
To answer you question, Animated Ape person of something something, I was hired as a general artist at my first gig with Activision. It was cuz I could model, texture, rig, light, animate and render proficiently. But when the job started, I ended up doing a lot more rigging and technical stuff so that just stuck and I'm sure as heck happy with how lucky I am to have had my first chance to work and how everything has turned out. (:
Oh and Rob has been hired on as an animator. (: I think for cinematics or something. Not too sure. It's been a busy week at work. (:
Work is a lot less stressful than school, for me anyway! (: I can tell you that for sure. A lot less hours going into too! LOOK! I even have time on the weekends to lurk about the awn forums! (:
So was I being mean? Did I say something wrong? Really. Hontesly. Anyone?
Well, year one is a kind of fundamentals of art and design. Acutally, I'm being allowed to skip that year and go right into year two, which is very hands-on and assumes you've got the fundamentals down. I'm kind of thinking of it as a cartonnist's boot camp.
Sketch 2d, thanks for your post, because it may clear things up for some people. You are correct about Ringling not really being technical at all. We have no scripting classes, and while we are taught the basics of rigging sophomore year, most juniors and seniors choose to use automated rigging scripts to allow them to get to the animation part of production much more quickly. Acting is the #1 focus, with acting classes being part of the curriculum sophomore year. For many years Ringling has had a close relationship with Florida Studio Theater. We've had people from there do voice acting for us this year and I learned a tremendous amount working with them.
If you decide to go to Ringling, you won't be making it to the beach too often! I just wanted to be honest!
Also if you are concerned about the commons food at Ringling, take comfort in knowing that the new student government has brought the issue up and is going to work on it until it is solved! If I weren't about to graduate in 2-3 weeks, I would definitely be helping too.
@ animated ape thanks for the info man well am just a poor artist when it comes to human anatomy or animals otherwise am an ok sort of artist .
2ndly what is the duration of the BFA course and what wud be the total expenses of the course? well am more intrested towards 3D animation which i think doest really require too much of drawing skills ..does 3D animation too require strong drwing skills??
lastly does AAU provide any kind of scholarships or financial aid?? well for the MFA course is $18000 per year can u just estimate the total other expenses by the end of the year? can we work as soon as we start the masters programme? if yes for hw many hours ???
regards,
ryan
Thank you guys for the comments, they were really helpful :)
At an Art and Animation school, you'll start with fundamentals like design and drawing which, along with studies in areas like color theory, digital video editing, and computer applications, will help you build a solid foundation of the skills you'll need. From there, you'll build an ability to express your ideas in pictures and words, gaining a strong working knowledge of storyboarding, scriptwriting, scenic layout, 2D and 3D animation, digital video editing, and more.
[URL=http://www.nova-design.co.uk/visualisation.htm]3D visualisation[/URL]
Okay, you have GOT to be a freshman, because I really thought animators who thought that way were extinct.
Listen.... a studio would rather hire an animator with a solid background in traditional skills to switch to 3D than a technical master in... say, Maya.
Why? Because the time-tested fundamentals of animation carry over to any medium, whether it's traditional or 3D or stop motion or Flash or whatever. Maya is the current "flavor of the month". In a year or two, there will be a new flavor. What will happen to that 3D person? He'll be replaced by someone who knows how to animate.
Where did you hear that 50% stuff? ANOTHER freshman?
C'mon Animation Mentor guys... back me up here!
Follow @chaostoon on Twitter!
Is that the same as Academy of Art University? Cause I have it on good authority that's not really a good school.
Hi Mleen, and welcome to the AWN Forums. Yeah, there are a lot of options in the Bay Area. I went to the Academy of Art College, now University for four years. It's a good school, and I think they have a good 3D animation program, I was in the traditional department. I would not recomend Cogswell. I've heard good things about De Anza, and SF State University is, or at least was on PIXAR's list of schools on their website. I don't know much about their program though. San Jose State also has a really good Illistration program, but I don't know if they teach animation. You can also look into AnimationMentor.com. It was set up by animators from PIXAR and ILM. They only teach character animation. No modeling, rigging or lighting. It's mostly Maya, but you can do your animation assignments in any medium you want.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
hey animated ape what is the duration of the masters programme in animation and VFX at Academy of art university ?? is it 2 yrs ? or more??
For someone really interested in developping 3D animation skills, is it really importent to get a 4-year program ? Isn't a 2-year program (like Ex'pression one more tech apparently) sufficient ?
Also, does anyone know the animation / video game job market situation ?
I've heard that the game industry is doing very well right now ... And, there're more and more demands for 3D animation. I read this article where the author was saying: "There are many career opportunities for creative and talented people in the multimedia industry. The industry is currently at a point in its evolution where entry and advancement are not tied as closely to academic achievement or credentials as to the quality of a person's contribution to the project. Enthusiasm combined with experience and talent often generate employment offers". What do you think ?
Any good, industry-oriented schoools in NYC?
How could I forget San Jose State? They do have an animation program. The students there worked on a film that was screened at Sundance this past year. I think their program is also connected somehow with DreamWorks, but I'm a bit fuzzy on that.
Im a highschool student and I'm starting to look at colleges.
My deal is that Ive always been interested in film and was planning on a film major, but recently realized my love for animation (especially 3D like from pixar and dreamworks and anime produced by studio ghibli =] ).
So now my dilemna is finding a school that has both a good film and animation program, it seems the best schools mentioned for animation (like ringling) only specialize in animation. SCAD seems to be decent in both areas but i dont know how serious the programs are and whether the school will help you get a job right after school. Any suggestions?
I would love to work at Pixar one day, everything Ive read about it has impressed me a lot. However, their page on reccommended schools seems to be down so i cant look at it, does anyone know what it is?
Another thing....
I dont mean to sound like a feminazi but is this field dominated by men? Or is it pretty level?
Ive always got the impression that there's more men in the film and animation bizz than women.
the majority of the peolpe on this post seem male.....
I mean, It doesnt really matter to me.....I just hope it doesnt affect job chances if its out of the ordinary in the business.
Ive read like, 20 of the 10000 pages of this post. Its an interesting discussion =)
And sorry about my retarded grammar......im at school and its like 9 but my brains still not really in gear yet for the day haha
Welcome to the AWN Forums CGurl.
I know the Academy of Art University in San Fransisco has strong departments in both animation and film. Give them a look.
As for all the men. Yes, the majority of animators and artists are male. It's not because the guys don't hire women, it's just that there aren't too many that go into the animation art side of this business. This is just a guess, but for artists, I guess it's about 80/20 male/female. A lot of female producers, coordinators and the like, but not artists.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I think the great illustration program at San Jose State includes traditional animation, and, last I heard, computer animation was added as well. I do know that their students get hired at places at ILM, Lucasarts, etc.
Hello all, I'm new to the boards- thinking about becoming an animator when older (15 years old now) and i've been looking into possible animation schools to attend after highschool.
My favorite one that i've found so far is Joe Kuberts school of comic book art and animation.
what are you guys' oppinions on this school? is it worth it? do you think there are better schools than it?
~thanks
Matt
~A pencil and paper is all i need in life
I have to give kudos to all that have participated in this thread, it's been balanced, with touches of passion on both sides, but none the less informative.
My days of even thinking of going back to school are over, and I almost shined this thread on, but it was well worth the read. Bravo AWN for a thoughtful, balanced thread, that will certainly help future students balance their choices.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Hello,
I’m new to the forms. I’m at the point where I need to choose a school. I have been admitted into Savannah and University of California Davis; both are on Pixar’s school list. I would be grateful of any advise or stats on either school. My parents are reluctant to let me go to SCAD and would prefer that I obtain a "real/traditional education" side note my two older siblings are prodigal children ones a physician in dermatology and the others just got promoted to international business with GAP so I have a lot to live up to. =/
Um........
First, Jim is not a freshmen. Far from. :p
I wasn't even going to post, just lurk... but you brought it on sir.. here it goes!
Jim is also correct in his assertion that recruiters would rather higher an animator who can animate well in 3D over 2D. Why? Because it's another skillset, a VERY IMPORTANT skillset where they do not have to waste time or money training for months at a time and hoping that the animator will understand what is going on.
I am not knocking 2D whatsoever. It's beautiful and honestly, some of the best animation and stories are still in 2D where 3D has not yet surpassed in the sheer magic of animation.
However, do not dare believe that you will get a job as an animator in the 3D animation industry because you are just amazing in 2D. Companies are not willing to spend extra time and money, especially since they are probably hiring because they immediately need someone to come in and do what needs to be done so that the show, movie, or game needs to be pushed out for the deadline.
I have been on recruiting trips and also spoken to many recruiters... if you do not know how to use 3D tools then your chances of getting hired in the games or movie industry is slimmer to none.
Your statements, Mr. cartoonchaos, makes me wonder whether you know anything at all about the industry upon of which you speak so fondly. Jim and Larry L and Ed Gavin all know. They are all professionals in the industry. If you are also, then I apologize, but sir, you sound like the one who is "ANOTHER FRESHMEN"
Since there are no graduates from Ringling that have posted, I'll be the first to start.
I graduated from Ringling last year in 2005.
I was one of the fortunate ones to be picked up from Activision while I was still in school. Currently I work at Neversoft (Tony Hawk Franchise).
Sidenote: We just hired a new animator who graduated from SCAD. Rob. He's a good animator and nice guy. (:
There were earlier statements about Ringling Animators not knowing anything about tradiational animation or drawing fundamentals in general. That statement is completely and utterly false. The first and only introduction to animation that students undergo in the Computer Animation Program at Ringling is traditional animation. Given, that is not the focus, but the teachers at Ringling understand the importance of understanding the concepts of Traditional Animation to translate into 3D. Also, because of Ringling's portfolio requirements, and the Computer Animation Program's specific art portfolio requirements, the animators accepted into the program do have backgrounds in traditional art media. I had NO 3D when I applied to the CA program at Ringling. All my work was painting, drawing, and figurative. Ironically enough, the animator alumni I hang out with in Los Angeles are constantly trying to get better and better at drawing and traditional art in general and often spend much of their freetime in such activies.
When I started at Ringling, our class began with 55 students. At the end, as Jim mentioned, there was only 30-some odd. The courses are intense and the work load is insane. Flat out.
Someone mentioned the beach.... in the 3.5 years I attened Ringling, I saw the beach 4 times... and I even spent summers in Sarasota when school was not in session.
Relationships/girlsfriends/boyfriends have been lost during the course of being in the Computer Animation Program at Ringling.
I barely spoke to my parents, whom I am very close with, even though they were two hours away in Orlando.
So in the end, I can sum up my expereince at Ringling as intense and completely insane.
Would I do it again? Freaking absolutely. I'd pay for the tutition again, take out loans, and dive right back in. Why? Because I know I would learn so much more.
The CA program at Ringling doesn't just teach you a program or "how to animate." It teaches you how to see and how to think and how to go about solving a problem.
There was a statement made earlier that CA at Ringling only teaches you animation and story and less technical. COMPLETELY UNTRUE. I myself am a Rigger/Technical animator. Another graduate form my year is a rigger, another a Pipe Line TD, and another a Lighting TD, all at Sony. A graduate from 2004 is an FX artist, just worked on Ice Age 2. Not all the graduates from Ringling become sole "animators" At least half go off into modelling, rigging, lighting, texturing, you name it... It's all dependant upon the skillset of the individual artist.
So in conclusion, if you want to learn 3D, art, story, animation, thought processes... I vouch for Ringling.
-kee
I have been to the Max the Mutt site, and found nothing about tuition fees. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right place.
When I was in the application process, they said VFS had an 80% job placement rate in the industry. They also said that all a company had to do was fill out some paperwork to hire an international. The class before mine-- CA64-- was about nine people, and mostly Canadian. That 80% rate held true for them. Of my class-- 23 students, if I remember right-- last I heard, one Canadian had a full time job at a small studio and another had gotten an interview there, and two internationals had gotten some freelance work. One of those had been doing freelance before enrolling and he was relying on his old contacts. He had married a Canadian woman to stay. The other freelancer lives in upper Washington.
We were told by the teachers that, due to the tax credit program, studios were reluctant to hire internationals. In fact, it had only happened once in the history of the department. I think that might be down a little from "80%".
When we did our studio tours at the end of the year, two of the five studios were virtually empty because all the animators had been laid off when the shows had been outsourced to the Philippines. The shows they were working on were Flash. Everything up to the basic posing got done in Canada, and the motion tweens, etc, got done overseas.
I'm not saying all private schools are like that, but it exists. My advice is still to get everything in writing and show it to a lawyer. The economy is in terrible shape, and animation is a pretty frivolous industry.
The one thing I can say is that I am improving. Hopefully, in six months the stuff I'm doing at this point will be as embarrassing to look at as the stuff I did at VFS is to me now.
I don't know who you are and this is your first post, but you are making a mess out of a discussion until this point was civilized, informative and adult.
I have a suspicion of who you are and have now added you to my ignored list.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
That's a shame that your parents don't want you to follow your heart. I've seen it happen a lot. All I can say is, don't let that hold you back. It's infinitely more important that you do what you love rather than what will make you rich, important, or well-liked.
Luckily, animation pays well, and people love to do it.
Sorry I can't help you on the schools there.
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
I think these are all questions the AAU website should be able to answer. I think the program is a 4 year program.
For 3D animation, you don't need super strong drawing skills. Not as strong as a traditional animator, but you should be able to draw quite above average.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
@ animated ape i did chck the site but nothing was mention abt the duration of MFA i guess most MFAs shud be a 2 yr course !!
CalArts, as far as I know, is where you want to be if you want a program that emphasizes traditional over computer animation -- and a program that is like killer bootcamp from hell where you can feed off the creative energies of your fellow classmates. CalArts does have elective classes for computer animation, but it's not the core heart and soul of the program; I haven't seen any student films that weren't 2D/hand-drawn. That's as far as I know as a prospective outsider.
Normally I would direct you to the animatedbuzz forum (pretty much everyone there is at CalArts or is trying to get into CalArts), but since it's been down for about a week now, I can give you the DA sites of CalArts students and you can ask them yourself. :)
Haha. I didn't go to either Ringling or SCAD so I can't speak to either school.
From my experience, I work in TV animation and am learning 3D at Animation Mentor and hoping to get into features, if you are a student right out of school the studios are not going to hire you on as an animator straight out of the box. Two of my friends and fellow AM students got hired at Disney Feature about 3 to 4 months ago, and are still being trained. Right now they are doing fixes in clothing as stuff, not animating full character, but they are being groomed to do that. I think both came to AM from a 3D tech background. I know at least one of them did. Both of them know Maya, which is what Disney uses. Anyway, I think it's rare that students will be hired as animators straight away. They will all have to go through training, even animators from other studios have to be trained on the studios' software and work flow.
Welcome to the AWN Forums Robokeebot. I was wondering what position where you hired on for at Activision? Also the SCAD student as well? Most students seem to thing they will be hired as lead animators right out of school. I know I thought that. :D
Well Rodney, it sounds like this will be a tough choice, and which ever school you choose will be a good choice.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
In another thread it's mentioned about 30-40k/yr....is that consistent with your findings? Or do you have a situation in mind that'd be more, or are you thinking about particular locations? I wonder sometimes if it does pay very well by itself but when figuring salary people account for downtime between jobs where you aren't bringing anything in, and then it gets averaged to something moderate...
Any ideas?
Calarts will kill you if you let it.
As far as how graduates are faring out in the world, I know last year a great portion of the graduating class is now in the apprenticeship program at Disney, and a few others landed story jobs at Pixar and Dreamworks. And then a few others scattered off to various studios around the country (maybe the world). Other recent graduates have worked on Kung Fu Panda and Horton Hears a Who in both animation and story departments.
Of course, whether you find work or not is all about what you put into it and what you want out of it. Calarts isn't some magical place that will make you an amazing artist, although it will help. The reason Calarts graduates tend to be successful (if you call landing a job success... ahem) is because they are INSANE about animation. And that's a fact.
-moot
Here's a simple question hopefully, how easy do CalArts students get jobs coming out of senior year? I know they're far more traditionally focused than somewhere like Ringling. Do they get jobs just as easy, considering someone in this thread mentioned Ringling having 28 out of 32 graduates with jobs coming out earlier?
30-40 a year? That's the first time I've heard a figure so low. Well I can't of course speak from experience, but I've heard at least 50-60 right out of college, of course presuming you're talented and dedicated. Also depending on your training and degree too.
Anyway, I'm sure people higher on the chain (NOT entry positions) make 6 figures.
Even so, 30-40 isn't bad pay at all, ESPECIALLY right out of college. I guess it also depends on what your view of "paying well" is. I'm not really concerned with it too much... can't buy happiness, right? ;)
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
I can't speak for any school but Max the Mutt. If what you are telling me is true- and I have no reason to doubt you - the info they gave you was misleading and you should register a complaint. In Ontario, the Ministry of Training, Universities and Colleges is the governing agency. I would assume there is a similar agency in B>C>
(Tuition at Max the Mutt is around $10,000 a year for US and international students.The advanced diploma fourth year is a very long year and comes to more.)
When I speak about animation jobs I'm including all kinds- 2D computer and 3D computer. We also have graduates who go into character design, storyboarding and layout.
As far as jobs for US students is concerned, we have had interest from US companies in US students. They have the same difficulties getting Canadians across the border. There are jobs in the US. In fact, some smaller companies in places like Buffalo are having difficulty finding people.
I was surprised to read on this thread that only 10 to 20% of animation grads (US) are finding work. Something is wrong! Perhaps the schools aren't able to teach in as much depth because so many of them are BA programs. Perhaps the decline in HS art training means longer programs are needed. Perhaps they are accepting too many people who don't have drawing skills, and then aren't teaching fundamentals.
Animators are used in the video game industry as well as animation, and there is an increase in other applications of computer animation. Some of these jobs may not be your cup of tea, but there are jobs out there for qualified people.
Have you learned ToonBoom Animation Pro? There is a need for classically trained animators who can use that software. Thanks to ToonBoom I think classical animation will have a rebirth in North America.
This is not to indicate that being an animator is a cup of tea. It always seems that the artists don't get a fair shake, or at least that's my perception. I think the arts continue to be a difficult choice. Perhaps the internet will set us all free!
It's great that you haven't let your experiences dampen your passion.
I look forward to an announcement from you that you've been hired for a job you want.
I'd rather be doing what I love than doing something that pays a lot. :> And the better you are...well...
And animation is a respectable career too! Don't let anyone intimidate you from doing what you want to do for a career.
-Jorge Garcia
RSAD Animator in Training.
I'm kind of curious now too. It was, 29 straight into jobs? 10 in film. And in this newer post, half are outside of character animation? Still, out of 45 students, 5 going into character animation for feature right out of school...sounds like a nice turnout to me.
Reminds me of this crazy old coot I know with a 10% rule... ;)
Amen, Jay. Gotta do what you love. If you love collecting garbage, well so be it.
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
Hello. In regards to your question... I can't be happier at Ringling. Every CA teacher I've had has been incredibly invested in the quality of our work, and ultimately, how well we are going to be able to fend for ourselves in the industry. There is a healthy balance between nurturing and ass kicking here. I feel like my teachers WANT me to succeed, and that means letting me know when I need to kick it up a notch (which often means all night work-a-thons, but who cares, thats life.) When it comes to story, it is easy to get stuck... and you think your story is broken... but the teachers are freaking machines, they take your story and chew it up, and hock up the Hope Diamond itself. The traditional animation portion of the curriculum ties in seamlessly with the CA portion (sophomore year), and the projects and subject matter mirrors between the two sections of our schedule. In the interest of not being verbose, I will say this: When it comes to talent, personality, teaching skills, and overall investment in student success... I'd put my money on the Ringling staff. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. No one can impress upon you how hard it is to be an animator. You work under constant pressure, and it sucks your life away... but we love it just the same. A good staff gets you through it. And I'm not the only one who feels this way. We all love our teachers. Hope that helps!
I was unaware that Davis had an animation program. Can you provide some details?
Oh wait; I see. Davis is on the Pixar list for TD positions. Is that what you want to do?
As someone who graduated from SCAD three weeks ago.... MY two cents.
All the schools come down to this: You get out what you put in.
Everyone has been counting how many films from each school got into Siggraph as a benchmark, which is a really lame benchmark. For example scads short film "The Potter" just won a friggin Emmy but yet was completely snubbed by Siggraph. Siggraph E-Theatre and Animation theatre are very politcal, and the quality level varies highly. I have seen amazing pieces followed up by complete crap, so again it's a bad bench mark.
Also all this talk of % of people placed... the driven people will find a way to get there, regardless where they are at.
SCADs biggest advantage far and away is facilities. They are better than a lot of studios. From our render farm, lab size, to our brand new motion capture facility. Also the sheer size of the department and people available is a great resource.
I did visit ringling when looking for a college but I really don't know a lot about its pros or cons besides what is accessible to any prospective student. If I were you I would be listening to students who have GRADUATED from Ringling and SCAD. Me? I am three weeks out of school, got flown out to multiple studios, and ended up being able to pick where I wanted to be. I start working for Lucas Arts tomorrow, so I am pretty darn happy. And all of my close friends found great employment quickly.
If I could do it over again? I would pick neither. I think west coast schools have a massive advantage over east coast, by virtue that 90% of the industry is right there. Why anyone thought the SOUTH EAST was a good place to put animation schools is beyond me.
But I have friends who graduated and are currently at every major school, and guess what... we all complain about more or less the same things. The school you pick is not going to make or break your carreer in the slightest, its completely your passion and drive.
PS- If anyone has any specefic questions about scad I am more than happy to answer them.
PPS- Listen to FuriousChi, he knows what he is talking about ;)
www.MattOrnstein.com
Character Animator - Lucas Arts
Hey, I thought I would just chime in here about the Calarts and Gobelins comparison.
I think I've mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if it was in this thread or elsewhere.
At Calarts, the character animation department has an exchange program with Gobelins, should interested students meet the required criteria (mostly being able to speak or learn to at least understand French). I've talked to a few people who have done a term at Gobelins, and some Gobelins students who have done a term at Calarts.
While I agree with Larry that Gobelins films are amazing, and probably at the top of what is being produced in animation schools today, there is a reason for it. At Gobelins, from what I understand, you are assembled into teams to work on a short, decided upon by popular vote, with each contributing artist working to his or her strength. So it's not too unlike a studio environment. At the same time, I've heard that there is a bit of frustration as far as creative opportunity, since some people are pigeonholed into doing only a few things and not gaining a totally immersive film making experience. And from an english speaking perspecive (I'm assuming that the majority of readers of the forums are fluent in english) it may be difficult to learn because of the language barrier. But if you're really comfortable with French, Gobelins is a very viable option. Again, this is just second hand information, not my own experience.
On the other hand, at Calarts, each student is in charge of creating all the things that go into his or her film, from story, storyboarding, layout, cinematography, animation, editing, sound, etc. All decisions belong to the sole filmmaker. It gives a more immersive film experience, which is probably why Calarts alum tend to be pretty successful. But it also leads to sometimes otherwise good films being left unfinished, and a really high stress level.
If you're interested in either of these schools, keep in mind that their approaches are quite different, yet the students who go there are extremely dedicated to their work. Sometimes to the point of fanaticism. haha.
I'm not too familiar with Ringling, but it seems to be the school to go to for 3d. I was accepted to SCAD after high school, but didn't attend because of the sheer volume of animation students there and the fact that a portfolio was not required for admittance. No offense, but it made me question the quality of the student body.
my two cents.
-moot
-moot
Amen! The faculty at Ringling is definately one of the things that makes it a great place to be. I love being here, and I'm proud to be a part of it.
1 Timothy 4:12 - "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
Interesting bit of trivia; I was actually born at the David Grant Medical Center (affiliated health care of UC Davis)...
Not that anyone cares but hey, familiarity is fun!
The number of art classes you took in high school does not matter. All that matters is your portfolio and decent grades. When you get to art school, you'll see that everyone has a different level of artistic training. I went to a math and science focused high school where I had no art classes, but I still got into the art school of my choice. Focus on your portfolio. That is all that matters. And show that you have PASSION.
I'm sure you can email them to request more information about their masters program. That way you can get first hand info on cost, duration, requirements, etc.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Thanks Moot,
Especially for that rundown of Cal Arts...true, you have to speak French for Goeblins and have a dynamite portfolio to enter either program.
I would rank CalArts as the top in America.
The Goeblin's students do their FINAL projects as a team...and their do spend 3 or 4 months with "everything to thr wall" to finish their films for Annecy. But thats only at the very end for their education. ..true also is that their tuition total (2,500.00 a year) for 3 years is the same as ONE TERM at most other
schools...
Either school brings you a long way toward finding a job.
Thanks
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
Robokeebot, wow, small freaking industry, Rob is one of my best Mates from scad! Neversoft sounds awesome, congrats!
UPDATE: HAH! I just spoke to Rob, you interviewed me when you came to SCAD with activision, REALLY small industry!
www.MattOrnstein.com
Character Animator - Lucas Arts
Hello.
You said, "Is this the Larry PM thing?"
What does PM mean?
Thanks.
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
It's hard not to notice UC Davis as you're on your way north on 80. We use it as a milestone when we head up to Reno.
And on the way home too, come to think about it.
Hi all, I have just been accepted into the CalArts' character animation program, Ringling's computer animation, and USC's masters of animation. It's been a wild ride getting to this point but now is where things really get tough---where should I go??
PROGRAM FOCUS
I have been talking to grads, teachers, and current students from Ringling and CalArts. It seems to me a Ringling graduate is well rounded and capable in all aspect of the animation/gaming process (design and production; creative and technical). At CalArts all four years are focused on character animation, so a graduate will be an expert in that but might not know any of the 3d aspect of things (although CalArts does offer 3D courses, it's not the main focus). It seems to me CalArts focus more on the content of a story and artistic creativity rather than technical skill. How do you think that compares?
LOCATION
Would Ringling's location limit job opportunities? Most of the industry is in CA. I know that recruits go to Ringling but some people I know have been arguing that that's still not enough exposure in such a competitive field-- although a Ringling graduate highly disagrees. Does anybody else have any input?
JOB MARKET
I'd really hate to bring up the question of 2D vs. 3D again,
....but here it is anyway.
Coming from a traditional background (drawing/painting), I really love the 2D side of animation. However, now that the industry is leaning towards 3D, having 3D knowledge wouldn't hurt and maybe I'll find that I really enjoy it.
My career goal is to work on features in a well-known studio (subject to change). I'd love to have steady income but from what I've been reading here in the forum, that may not be a realistic expectation. With all that in mind, which school would be better for me?
REPUTATION/NETWORKING
CalArts says that 70% of Pixar is from its animation programs while a Ringling graduate tells me that there are more Ringling graduates in the field.
People seem to talk so much about CalArts....but is it just a name or will I be getting the education I paid for (31k/year)?
USC
I don't know much about USC's MFA. I just know that it's a three year program design for people with no previous animation background. Can anyone provide more info on USC?
All in all I understand both CalArts and Ringling are great schools and the quality of education is the result of how much effort I put into it.
Sorry for such a long post everybody! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
hello everybody i am ryan from INDIA doing my bachelors in computer science and engineering ( btech cse) . i am in 3rd year now,1 and half year to go before i complete my btech. i have a burning desire for animation and movies that because i have been a hardcore gamer from last 6-7 years and a v.big movie buff with a collection of over 500 movies ! well i want to ask few questions:
1) since am doing bacherlors in computer sci.and engg i am eligible for doing masters in animation ? if yes what is it called masters in animation or is it called MFA in animation
2) could you guys tell me the gud universites or schools that offer this degree at a cheaper cost ? and hw much does it cost to get the masters degree in animation
3) since i dont come frm arts side do i need to have basic drawing skills to get masters degree in animation ? secondly do i need to have v.gud acadmeic score in various fields
well my 10 th class percentage is 70 %
11 th class percentage is 65%
12 th class percentage is 65 %
and bachelors percentage in computer sci and engg is close to 55 %
am i eligible with this score?? and v.shortly i wud be appearing for the GRE exam.
thanks to everyone in advance!!!
WHOOOOA. Did I say something offense? I'm rereading my post. Anyone else tell me if I said something offense? You have a suspicion of who I am? Poo. ehehe.
How did I make a mess out of this discussion? I told it straight out like it is. If you have no 3D experience, do not know how to use a 3D program, the likliness of you getting hired in the gaming or movie industry is really slim to none. Is that offensive? Well, then you are in for a hard reality check.
Did I diss on SCAD? No. I have no idea what their courses are like nor their teachers. I saw the facilities, they are HUGE and spoke with a few of the instructors who all seem to be very nice and knowledgable. Did I not just say that Jim and Ed (From Ringling) and Larry L. (from SCAD) are industry professionals and know a hecka lot more than you or me? I gave my opinion on what Ringling is like and what I experienced and how much blood, sweat, time, effort, money, and emotion goes into the program.
If I said something offensive, really, I do apologize, but do not make things out of no where and now I am on the "ignore" list. That's just silly. *rolls eyes* I might have something valuable to say and you may have just missed it.
Hey Matt2001. (: How's it? What was your reel like? I don't remember names well, just demoreels. haha. I'm horrible with names.
Yeah.. that was me on the recruiting trip. I wasn't gonna bring that up but yeah. (:
I've worked with quite a few SCAD kids through the short year that I've been working. They all have been pretty keen. (: I worked with Alex Manresa at my first job at Activision. And now I'm working with his best friend Rob. (: Like you said, small industry, no? Everyone knows everyone. (:
Wanna talk about an even smaller world? I just browsed your webbie and see that you're from Gainsville,FL? (: My little bro goes to college there.
To answer you question, Animated Ape person of something something, I was hired as a general artist at my first gig with Activision. It was cuz I could model, texture, rig, light, animate and render proficiently. But when the job started, I ended up doing a lot more rigging and technical stuff so that just stuck and I'm sure as heck happy with how lucky I am to have had my first chance to work and how everything has turned out. (:
Oh and Rob has been hired on as an animator. (: I think for cinematics or something. Not too sure. It's been a busy week at work. (:
Work is a lot less stressful than school, for me anyway! (: I can tell you that for sure. A lot less hours going into too! LOOK! I even have time on the weekends to lurk about the awn forums! (:
So was I being mean? Did I say something wrong? Really. Hontesly. Anyone?
<3
kee
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