Bad freelance experience... le *sigh*

I think he has 30 days after getting your art to pay you. After that he is in breach of your contract, (you do have a signed contract right?) and you can take legal action against him. Maybe it was 60 days. But either way, 180 bucks doesn't sound worth it. Just chalk it up to experience, learn from it and move on.

Always start a project with a contract, and a schedualed form of payment with some of the money up front. If they don't agree to this, then run! I usually go with 1/4 of the money up front, 1/4 when the roughs are finalized and signed off on, 1/4 when the cleaned-up art is approved, and the rest when I had in the final art. That can change depending if someone I trust recomended them to me, but if I don't know them, thats how I go about it.

Sorry to hear about that. That really sucks. Whats their name and company so people here can avoid this person.

Aloha,
the Ape

I understand your point and it's valid. However, instead of doing free workups, I direct people to my website so that they can see examples of my work and see what I'm capable of doing. So, basically, my portfolio is where clients get to see and try on my work before hiring me.

I still have problems when I apply for a job that doesn't quite match the style of work on my website. Then I have to decide if I'm going to do workups or not. For me, I normally choose not to because, in the end, I'm still working for free and I haven't been officially hired yet.

But if you are going to do comp work, a good trick I discovered is to not actually create what the client says they want. If the job is to create a character design of a woman in a particular style, then I would create a male character in the desired style. That way I'm showing that I'm able to do what they want without actually giving them what they want for free. That probably would've worked in Twentyfour's case and in Haredevel's case, where instead of making hip hop fish, he could have made hip hop frogs.

I also know that when some people do comp work, they charge severance fees and make the prospective client sign a non-disclosure agreement. The non-disclosure agreement typically states that the client can't use or steal the work/ideas that you produce, and the severance fee is what you get paid if they don't hire you for the job.

Freelance work is tricky and I'm still learning as I go along. It's good that we can share our experiences and learn from each other. :)

I always looked at non-disclosure clauses as protecting corporate secrets. I've never know a designer to use one. I've had to sign a few before the outline of a project was shared with me as a designer, it's never been the other way around.

And severance implies there has been some sort of agreement or contract to begin with. Not something you throw out at the beginning of a negotiation, and severance is not something I've ever known a freelancer to receive.

You got suckered--chalk it up to experience.
When they say no contract, say "no deal" in response.

You could get a lawyer friend to write up a couple of nasty-grams to send off to them--perhaps even look into things like putting a lien on their business or home addresses ( a lawyer can do that, don't see why Joe Public cannot either--but it might cost some $$)--or even schedule them for small claims and follow thru.
Of course, one might have to actually find a lawyer to make friends with............

The trick to succeeding in the game here is to be utterly ruthless in dealing with your clients. In ANY OTHER business, not paying for your services would be a pretty serious thing--but in the creative industry ( industries) it is especially common place because creators --artists like us--are not reknown for good business sense. We are easy to stiff because we tend to be business dummies.

State YOUR terms--make them reasonable--and insist on a small payment up front ( 5-10% up to 25%), or after a partial submission of the work, like thumbnails.
Once they start paying out, most folks want to see it through to the end to get their moneys worth. Almost everyone wants something for nothing, but once they have to pay, even a little, they DEFINITELY want something for it.

The thing that traps artists is the delusion of loss. They imagine that if they turn THIS deal down, that its the last deal they are going to get before they starve. Its almost never works out that way.
Learn to tell a prospective "client" to go blow, if they do not meet your terms--you will not lose anything by getting rid of a potential problem right away.

Also bear in mind that even LARGE corporations have been known to stiff talent on occasion--especially if its outside talent. Its somewhat rare, but it does happen if the perp is compartmentalized within the corportation and their "books" don't recieve the kind of detailed scrutiny they should.
Same "rule" as above applies.

And the more charming the perp, the more you need to be wary. Listen to what they say, while they say it. If the guy says he cannot pay just yet--listen to what that means ( he's not going to pay). If he makes excuses then he's hiding the fact that he is unable or unwilling to pay. Forget the charm, get nasty and see how he responds. Most folks will snap right back, and then reveal themselves for what they are.

Never give away your trust--let the other guy EARN IT. Everything he says about money means nothing until that cheque clear at YOUR bank. So humour him behind a false smile until it does.
After a pattern of reliable dealings happen, then you can relax your guard.

Good luck.

One more thing: never "threaten" to go get a lawyer.
Talk is cheap, and its meaningless shrill bluster saying that you are gonna sue!
Give the perp a 3-strikes policy, becoming more stern (but civil) each time--and give them ONLY 3 strikes. After that, pull out the legal weapon--if you have it........
Spring the lawyer on the miscreant like some forsaken unannounced ambush and you might just shock him into paying out. At the very least, it shows the perp that you do play for keeps.
Announcing legal action before you actually seek it out just gives the perp extra time. You can figuratively kneecap the mothers by keeping your intentions to yourself and let all subsequent dealings happen from the lawyers desk. Even if the perp calls you directly "to work things out" ignore him, and have the lawyer handle it.

You'd be amazed how fast the un-greased wheels start 'a turnin' once a letter from a lawyer arrives on their desk.

I was also surprised to learn about non-disclosures and severance fees being used in this fashion. I read about it in Computer Arts magazine. I guess the severance comes into play when the client agrees to have the artist do the comp work.

But if you are going to do comp work, a good trick I discovered is to not actually create what the client says they want. If the job is to create a character design of a woman in a particular style, then I would create a male character in the desired style. That way I'm showing that I'm able to do what they want without actually giving them what they want for free. That probably would've worked in Twentyfour's case and in Haredevel's case, where instead of making hip hop fish, he could have made hip hop frogs.

I also know that when some people do comp work, they charge severance fees and make the prospective client sign a non-disclosure agreement. The non-disclosure agreement typically states that the client can't use or steal the work/ideas that you produce, and the severance fee is what you get paid if they don't hire you for the job.

So this is based on something you read not something you have experienced?

My trick for doing comp work is from personal experience. The non-disclosure & severance information is from reading.

$180?

Book it to experience. At least the courts I've been to won't do nuthin' but look at you funny.
Life's too precious.

D.

well you acted in good faith and you got abused.

but its your fault really. you didnt sign anything. lucky you its only a $180.

Liked your sketches, nice female forms and flowing legs.

This rednecky Beer drive thru guy will in turn get his one day. I'm glad he read your threads. As for this post, It has answered many questions I have had regarding how to go about doing freelance work effectively and protecting my interests. I am going to write up a contract this weekend!

I haven't ever had anyone stiff me, but I have not taken jobs from people I felt may ultimately try to do just that. Hopefully you'll be safer in the future.

great post!

I have "experience" in the matter, but in the sense that its experience I'd rather not have gained.

Haha, that's not kind of experience I ment. I ment bussiness experience, but thanks for elaborating. Wow, $18K! That sucks.

Aloha,
the Ape

Yep, listen to Ken. He's got a lot more experience in the biz than I do, and he always has good sound advice when it comes to these things. Yeah, don't tell em you're getting a lawer, just blind side em! Try a few more times to get your money, but yeah, 180 isn't much to get the lawyers involved, On a good note, I'm never going to go to Beer N' All.

Aloha,
the Ape

Yep, listen to Ken. He's got a lot more experience in the biz than I do, and he always has good sound advice when it comes to these things. Yeah, don't tell em you're getting a lawer, just blind side em! Try a few more times to get your money, but yeah, 180 isn't much to get the lawyers involved, On a good note, I'm never going to go to Beer N' All.

Aloha,
the Ape

Just to add a bit more perspective to this:

I've been ripped off of upwards of $18,000 on a job(and, yes, that hurts). Most times its been less than $1000--and usually under $100.
Only once have I seen any of that money after the fact--and it wasn't the $18K amount either.
In that case it was because the company I was working for was going out of business--which is the major cause of most non-payment situations.
Lawyers cannot often help in situations like those because once a party declares bankruptcy, they are sheltered from insolvent debts like that.

I have "experience" in the matter, but in the sense that its experience I'd rather not have gained.

Hey, "24" happens to me all the time. Just be aware your drawings are great, and if I was you I'd follow his web site and make sure versions of my drawings didn't show up there. There are some shady folks out on the internet, that just want something for free. Contracts like you say aren't going to fix it unless you can afford to hire an attorney under retainer. You just have to roll with the punches, and maybe sell your drawings to someone else. If they are under copyright eventually by someone else, maybe folks that think they can get them for free will back off.

I also work freelance and I never begin a job without receiving some type of payment upfront. It's the only assurance you have that you're going to get paid something for your time and work if the client decides to disappear.

I don't consider myself to be a ruthless person, but I do insist on using contracts and I don't start anything unless the contract is signed AND payment is received. Remember, a fair contract protects you and your client as well. It should spell out what you are going to do and when you are going to do it. Your clients' responsibilities should also be listed on the contract, especially their payment schedule.

I also disagree with the notion that if a client doesn't like the work, that it means you do not get paid. You allow for a set number of revisions to accomodate the client's wishes, but you should still get paid because you still did the work. And if the client still wants more revisions after the set number, then you charge an additional fee. You may offer a discount off the price if the client is still unsatisfied, but you do not giveup your payment all together. Liken the experience to eating dinner at a restaurant. Even if you don't think the meal is all that great, you still have to pay for it.

People are unpredictable, but having a method in place that helps to sort out the serious clients from the crooks is a way to make sure that your paycheck isn't unpredictable.

Contracts with revision clauses are great if you are established, but not always possible for a newbie or upandcoming talent.

Contracts with revision clauses are great if you are established, but not always possible for a newbie or upandcoming talent.

Why not? I think it's wise to incorporate good business strategies as soon as possible. I'm not a newbie, but I'm not exactly a seasoned veteran either. However, I make sure to use the practices of seasoned veterans to avoid any problems in the future.

Try sending out a contract and expecting 50% in advance for every little 50.00 and 100.00 job you discuss, see how many ever reply back. And maybe that's a good thing, but you miss out on a few that would pay if you didn't require the paperwork in advance. I know this is small potatos for a lot of you, but when you are starting out freelancing it's your bread and butter for the first year.

For smaller $50 and $100 jobs, I would require payment in full upfront. And it is because freelancing is my bread and butter that I require contracts and payment arrangements. I simply can not afford to waste time and creative energy on a job that may not pay me later when it's done. I think that when a client agrees to my terms, the chances of not getting paid are drastically reduced.

I have missed out on some jobs and I know I will continue to do so, but I think I saved myself a lot of frustration in the end. Besides, I would much rather miss out on a job that has the promise of payment in favor of one where the client has already established good faith and credibility by meeting my terms.

Shar, certainly something I am going to do from now on, but when you are first starting out, and folks approach you and are friendly, it's easy to give in show them workups....I am not doing it anymore, but then I learned the hard way. It's easy for me to be smart now, I still have some bandaids on my fingers from being burned.

But I think we also have to think of things from a consumer's point of view. Do you buy a pair of shoes or pants without seeing them or trying them on first, guess.... that's why I was always willing to do workups in advance.

A similar thing happened to me this passed summer. Someone found me through email somehow and asked if I could draw some fish dressed in hip hop gear. So, I drew some and emailed him the pictures to see if this is what he was wanting. I didn't get a response for a few weeks. So I emailed him again and asked if his project was still on or what. His response was something like "um...... I'll know in a few months, I'll let you know then." Well, it's been more than a few months and I'm still waiting.

Oh well, I wasn't too proud of those fish and it certainly didn't take a sweaty long time to draw either. But, hey, if anyone has seen the fish I posted here on T-shirts, web toons or whatever.......... remember that they came from me. ;)

Most of my work is illustration, and I've found that, while contracts may be reassuring, they really don't amount to much. I've been ripped off as often WITH a paper contract as without. Most jobs I do are for a grand or less, so the time and cost of litigation is hardly worth whatever sum I may have lost. It's just one more client for the black list.

I recommend agreeing to a small job for a new client before making a larger time commitment, just to see what hazards lie ahead. (Some clients are not worth ANY amount of money, even if they DO pay on time).

In general, though, most people are pretty good about paying, sooner or later, if you are civil and patient with them (and, in a polite way, unrelenting. I've had clients pay me nearly a year after a job, when they finally tired of my bugging them about it).

It's important to remember that you also have an obligation to provide them with quality work they are satisfied with. Even if you've put in tons of time for a client, it does not mean jack to them unless the work makes them happy. Sometimes, I think people find it easier to drag their feet about paying an artist than tell them they don't like the work. If they seem reluctant to pay, the first question to ask them, and yourself, is: did the work meet their needs? And if there is NO making them happy, sometimes it's better just to walk away: an unhappy client won't do your reputation any good. Better to cut your losses and let them go. They can't complain much if they haven't spent any money, and they can't legally use your work if they haven't paid for it. You may not exactly come out a winner, but neither do they.

When working over the internet, it is reasonably easy to give a client a low-res preview of anything you are doing while reserving transfer of the final high-res work until after they've paid. It still sucks to lose your time if they take a powder, but they gain nothing materially by stiffing you, either.

I've also found that the bigger the check, the slower the payment, and the larger the company, the longer they'll make you wait. All part of the wonderful world of freelancing. Sometimes it is very disheartening. Last month, I had TWO clients stiff me, and one was an old friend. But I also had two of them pay me promptly, and a third one gave me a job that permitted me to reuse some of the work I had originally been stiffed for. You just never know how it's going to pan out. In the end, it's people, and people are woefully unpredictable.

On the bright side, you don't have to wear a name tag and a silly hat. Not every job offers that luxury...

I also work freelance and I never begin a job without receiving some type of payment upfront. It's the only assurance you have that you're going to get paid something for your time and work if the client decides to disappear.

I don't consider myself to be a ruthless person, but I do insist on using contracts and I don't start anything unless the contract is signed AND payment is received. Remember, a fair contract protects you and your client as well. It should spell out what you are going to do and when you are going to do it. Your clients' responsibilities should also be listed on the contract, especially their payment schedule.

I also disagree with the notion that if a client doesn't like the work, that it means you do not get paid. You allow for a set number of revisions to accomodate the client's wishes, but you should still get paid because you still did the work. And if the client still wants more revisions after the set number, then you charge an additional fee. You may offer a discount off the price if the client is still unsatisfied, but you do not giveup your payment all together. Liken the experience to eating dinner at a restaurant. Even if you don't think the meal is all that great, you still have to pay for it.

People are unpredictable, but having a method in place that helps to sort out the serious clients from the crooks is a way to make sure that your paycheck isn't unpredictable.