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Eel Animation Help

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Eel Animation Help

Hi. New forum member so hope this is thr right forum to ask this question..

I've been a napkin doodler most of my life and finally decided to go back to school a few weeks ago (I'm 46) and study animation. We just did the waving flag and now have an optional 'wave' animation of our choice. I decided to try a swimming eel like the concept I did below.

I have several questions.

First is on the drawing -my skills are still weak. I tried to picture the curves wrapped around cylinders but want to make sure it is draw correctly if anyone has any suggestions. I haven't been able to find any eel animations to use as a guide -there seems to be a technical paper on eel locomotion available but you have to buy it.

I rented "The Little Mermaid" to see the eels and one thing I notice is that the head and the points of the body (nodes?) that are leading the curve move more suddenly side to side, or up and down and the rest of the body drifts or floats for a frame of two making for a more fluid swim. I'm guessing I draw the extreme position as a key and then add one or two frames for the rest of the body to float into resting position while leaving the rest of the body that has already 'arrived' still.

My questions -first does anyone have or know of any similar animations I can look at? It appears from what I read that unlike snakes that pull themselves forward the eels use the parts of the curve as paddles and 'push' against the water in a 45 degree angle opposite the direction of motion, then when the curve moves to the other side they push in the opposite direction and this back and forth 'pushing' results in the forward motion.

I also did a quick motion of 5 positions for the head body but am at a loss exactly what the wave needs to look like.

Any clues, tips or resources appreciated. I am just drawing bunches of waves now to try to get something that works.

I won't torture you with my walk cycles and flour sack animations. ;)

Found a biology site that has previous years magzines free and a few articles on eel (and other critters) locomotion. Most of the text and charts will make your head explode but there are a few graphics that show the motion and tail positions and some photos of the various tail positions of some fish. I'm going to 'simplify' the eel animation after I saw how complex the movements actually are -not only the wave but the tip of the tail seems to be constantly doing a small figure '8' if I read the diagrams right ....

Still welcome any response if someone has happened to do a similar animation.

It sounds like you have the project well in hand. Limiting the cycle could be fine, or you could exstend the cycle. Have your eel movement in 20 or 30 cels. I am on the same level as you, as for as animation goes, so "BE WARE".

Hello

Hello - welcome to the forum...

You might want to try my site, the Toon Institute for information re: overlapping action and the flag wave and the "s" curve you need to transition from one side to another. There would be NO straight line drawing in the eel.

Secondly (here we go again), "animations" refers to work produced for the web.

Thanks.

give yourself a chance for success

don't try to do everything at once
where everything is still new to you.

still new at drawing and perspective
still new in wave animation
still new in wave animation in perspective

these are quite big hurdles in themselves
separately. you might find yourself overwhelmed
and disappointed when all these little shortcomings
pile up one after another and you can't figure out
where the trouble started.

first be comfortable drawing the eel in different
views. when you've got it, then you can feel good
and confident animating. all you got to do is
somehow find the right drawing (which you can
now do) and string them in animation.

then do a snake animation. just let the wave
flow down his body. there is no 'straight line'
middle pose-- this results in a spring kind of action.
(like a ball bouncing from a string). the use of
overlapping lines is critical in this part.

when you've done this animation IN VARIOUS
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES then you can animate
the eel where the body floats in 45 degree from
the head.

taking it down in manageable chunks not only
organizes your workflow but also prevents
discouraging yourself needlessly
.

Don't worry.  All shall be well.

Thanks for the solid advice (and tutorial links). I probably am overly complicating it -the assignment was meant as a quick demo to show we understood the basic concept. I may just do an overhead animation instead as I only have a few hours tonight, after work, to finish before handing it in tomorrow.

I did do several drawings but will have to break out the Sculpey I think and make a quick model to get a better sense of it. I think I will revisit this fella after the assignment as it interests me.

Sorry for being dense but I read what you posted Larry about 'animations' referring to web so does that mean the AWN forum is not for traditional animation stuff? I have some attention deficiency problems so sorry if this is a dumb question and I am missing the obvious.

i just wanted to make this comment from looking at your first sketch.

Make sure the more straight stretched out eel position is significantly longer than the bent. The forms must keep the same size not shrink up. A bent eel will be shorter then a straight one.

"who wouldn't want to make stuff for me? I'm awesome." -Bloo

Thanks, will do. :) On a side note I just did a quick animated line using the wave script in Moho and rotated it to about the right angle to see what it looks like. I'm still not very accomplished with Moho but at least it gives me a general idea of what is pointing where. I'll be heading home in about 30 minutes and will tackle the drawing - works out I'll post it in the correct forum here in a day or so. :)

Well the eel got the best of me. I tried and tried but couldn't get it to work nicely in the time I had -should have listened more carefully to kukut. :) Too many variables for a greenie like me.

I did a quick overhead eel and just have to clean it up. It's still rough and swims as if it was on speed. I'll revisit the eel when I get a lull in the homework.

This is my poor second choice

http://www.stormvisions.com/bc/eel_test_2.mov

OT but does anyone know if the stuff like the pencil tests from The Little Mermaid are around? I saw studied the movie this weekend and the eels were nicely done.

Thanks for your help.

covered it pretty much i'd say

the basics of it, as you pointed out.

you did quite forget to put the same attention
to the head. it spent a couple or three drawings
head on then snapped to the side. it even receded
on one drawing. that's why there's a wobbly
feeling to the head.

did you use a lightbox to figure out the inbetween spacing?

the head could be left head on (to see where he's
swimming to) with minimal movement, and the fins
flapping once per cycle.

you're using short build-up strokes. try to put on a
fresh sheet over them roughs, and if you have a lightbox,
you can clean them up with longer fluid strokes
that lay nicely on top of each other that it looks like
almost one nice smooth fluid stroke.

a round animation disc will help you to rotate your
drawing to the most comfortable stroking position for
your hand.

keep it up. not being contented is the key to artistry.

Don't worry.  All shall be well.

I'm too late to the party to help, but for future use:

If you're looking for reference material, it's better to go to live action footage than someone else's animation. Your animation based on someone else's is always a derivitive of a derivitive. In other words, the first person boiled down the actual motion to arrive at what they did, and you're doing the same except you're using work that's already been boiled :D. If that doesn't make sense, just remember - use live action as reference.

Larry's comment about "animations" is a reference to a recent thread where everyone got all worked up over whether that's an actual word, and if so what kind of animation it applies to. His opinion is one of many. Don't worry about it.

And welcome, BTW. Big props to you for taking a step like this at 46. Most people don't have the cajones to follow their dreams, let alone at a mid-life point. Good on ya, and let us know if we can help.

Oh, and one or more of us will probably end up taking issue with you at some point about something completely insignificant. Don't take it personally; it's just the way things work around here... :D

If you're looking for reference material, it's better to go to live action footage than someone else's animation. Your animation based on someone else's is always a derivitive of a derivitive. In other words, the first person boiled down the actual motion to arrive at what they did, and you're doing the same except you're using work that's already been boiled :D. If that doesn't make sense, just remember - use live action as reference.

I was going to say the same thing, but was beat to it. :p

Copying existing animation can have some use in teaching you how others animate, but when the Disney animators want to learn how Bambi or Simba should look and move, they study real animals.

Muybridge photos can be useful.
Nature documentaries can be handy. If they're on DVD, you can forward them frame-by-frame.
Sometimes you can go to the zoo or the aquarium.
There are also these videos of robotic eels:
http://155.69.254.10/users/risc/www/water-eel.html

Sometimes you can study similar animals instead. Maybe you can study a snake, since their muscles need to operate in a similar way.
Additionally, you can try searching for "lamprey" instead of "eel" specifically.

I hadn't thought of using a nature documentary and I think my local video shop does have some DVD's of ocean life or similar -thanks for the suggestion.

You need to check out www.rhinohouse.com
It looks to me like they would give you more bang for your buck.

Save the clock tower! Save the clock tower!

Had seen that link long ago when I didn't need it, forgot all about it -thanks. Added a bookmark for future reference. :)

Nature documentaries can be handy. If they're on DVD, you can forward them frame-by-frame.

TiVo also offers frame-by-frame capabilities, and you can record whatever nature documentary you need off the air. One of the best arguments for investing in one, IMO.

TiVo - on my long 'gotta get it some day' list. :)

Thanks for the useful analysis.

I have a 'craft' type light box but it is a bit small and has no pegs to hold the paper. I hope to buy or build a good light box and work area when I can as the current setup leaves much to be desired. We have the equipment at school but since I also work full time I end up doing most of my work at home -eventually like to get a new scanner as well as it takes a good amount of time to scan in the images to test them.

You are right about the head. I am somewhat obsessive by nature and it bugs me to hand in stuff like that. I actually just drew the main action line and when I got that about right I penciled in the rest using the front of the line to orient the head.

I'm going to start a gallery thread in the Daily Sketch forum as I can see I'll be hanging out here quite a bit. :) I started the roughs today for my next to last animation of this class. I'll be posting it as a WIP so I can get this useful feedback as I go. I am having some fun with this as we are doing the 'man lifting a heavy rock' animation and we are free to experiment as long as it includes the required actions. I also have more time for this -3 weeks combined for these final two assignments instead of the usual 1 week, so I am eager to try a few new things.

Thanks again.

EDIT: @DSB - thanks for the words of advice and welcome. I hear you. :) As for the rest I'm a mellow fellow for the most part and for anyone else who gets on my case I'll just look them up and do a little squash and stretch. ;) Just kidding of course. One of the cool things about doing new stuff is that I now have some new phrases I can use at parties. ;)