learning 3d on my own

I can't provide stastics for ya, but you can go to the theatre sometime and take notice that there have been around 0 "puppet" movies that came out last year and 6 or more purely CG films (not counting smaller studios) and countless others that use CG animation as visual effects or in addition to traditional animation. Saying that CG isn't a bigger field than puppeteering is trolling for an argument.

Then I am "trolling" because puppeteering is alive and well, even if it doesn't make to it to a theatre near you. Screen work isn't the only venue. And if all you guys are doing is pushing someone else's creation around then what you are doing is puppeteering.

And to not fully understand you medium is to be taking shortcuts that will eventually catch up with you.

That's potentially a big if - the difference is in HOW they push it, and the fact that they have split second changes with which to control the pushing. Makes a difference in what you can accomplish. But even though both are puppeteering (something 'major-studio' CG animators readily admit, and smile about) they're separate and should be appreciated as such.

Any animator I've ever read about or heard from worth their salt respects puppeteering because it's just another kind of acting. One big boat to share.

And if all you guys are doing is pushing someone else's creation around then what you are doing is puppeteering.

Well then I guess my job title should be "Puppeteer" instead of character animator. Heck any computer animator for that matter in this industry may as well be called "Puppeteer" since most of us do not build the model or rigs that are made in everyones respective companies.

While I understand your statement and yes we are moving a pre built rig the proper answer is no we are not puppeteers. Heck as Scattered said it is all one big boat and if you take any history of animation class they usually will start off with lessons on puppets yet there is a different approach to each medium.

Puppeteering, as Scattered hinted, requires changes on the fly and acting in real time. Thus as a result the thought process is more spontaneous without much thought to how the puppet should move while acting....it just moves! Like any theater humans will do the same and just act. Actors for the most part will not stand on a stage and say their lines while thinking about the position of their fingers and if they are creating a nice shillouette. They simply act and something deep down inside makes them relate with the character and move like that character should.

Animation on the other hand requires an animator to sit down and think out everything and consider how every single body part should move in relation to the next one. Even the timing of eye blinks or finger curls are thought out. Thus at the end of a shot every frame has been touched and every single body part was focused on at one point or another. As puppeteers do, animators as well need to get inside the characters head and prove that this thing is living yet at the same time we also need to focus on EVERYTHING and think differently then puppeteers/actors.

Now I am not trying to pit puppeteering against animation as both mediums are amazing and truly sit in one big boat if you think of it. Rather I am trying to sum up that puppeteering is on a more theatrical standpoint, spontaneous and different each and every performance. While animation is the opposite and is the exact same each and every time. Both tell a story, both act...only one though requires insane amounts of thinking on how or why a character moves a certain way...because in animation you only get ONE shot to tell your story and everything needs to be planned out. There is no second performance to do it even better.

Puppeteering, as Scattered hinted, requires changes on the fly and acting in real time.

Both tell a story, both act...only one though requires insane amounts of thinking on how or why a character moves a certain way...because in animation you only get ONE shot to tell your story and everything needs to be planned out. There is no second performance to do it even better.

I think if you think about it a little more, doing a live performance requires that you get it right the first time not the other way around. With animation you have your rough renders and countless reworks. With puppeteering you get a couple rehearsals at most.

And all I was saying from the beginning, was that he should learn the basics of modelling so that he would understand better the limitations of the medium.

Actors for the most part will not stand on a stage and say their lines while thinking about the position of their fingers and if they are creating a nice shillouette. They simply act and something deep down inside makes them relate with the character and move like that character should.

That "something deep down inside" is a knowledge of their craft and their own limitations, without that it would be chaos. But perhaps that's why I find most 3d animation to be so plastic. You guys are going for graceful silhouettes. Guess I don't appreciate them as much as the rest of you.

If you're using Maya, the Final Rig plug-in is pretty nifty. Nothing for facial stuff, but if you have a model you want rigged it isn't too bad. It can be tricky but has some neat controls.

It's a dead horse, but Generi and Packageman have pretty extensive usability as far as controls go (certainly for -free- rigs!)...everyone moans that the world runs to the free stuff and overpopulates/saturates the playing field with videos containing them, but for learning CG by yourself I'm sure they'll suit you fine.

Unless you already know about those both. Then I'm silly. But in case you don't search them out. All the other ones in my opinion aren't up to par.

Without learning the basics of modelling you are basically becoming a puppeteer that may not fully understand the mechanical workings of your character. But hey that's your choice. And most puppeteers spend some time learning to construct puppets before they get into the acting portion of the skill set.

I disagree with phacker's assessment. It will take at least a year to get good enough at modeling and rigging to start animation if you take his advice, and there are a lot of CG animators in the field don't know much about the rest of the software.

Puppeteering is a much smaller field than CG animation, and as such, a puppeteer has to have varying skillsets such as puppet building in order to succeed.

I disagree with phacker's assessment. It will take at least a year to get good enough at modeling and rigging to start animation if you take his advice, and there are a lot of CG animators in the field don't know much about the rest of the software.

Puppeteering is a much smaller field than CG animation, and as such, a puppeteer has to have varying skillsets such as puppet building in order to succeed.

It doesn't take a year to lean to model a fork or some other basic objects. All I am saying is don't overlook this. If you don't understand the underlaying fundamentals, you'll just be pushing things around, and you will never really understand when one of your movements breaks them. Too just learn part of a discipline, is to say that someone else will take care of the basics for you.

And I disagree that puppeteering is a smaller field than CG. Puppeteering has been around for a long time in varying aspects. Can you provide statistics to back this up?

And I disagree that puppeteering is a smaller field than CG. Puppeteering has been around for a long time in varying aspects. Can you provide statistics to back this up?

I can't provide stastics for ya, but you can go to the theatre sometime and take notice that there have been around 0 "puppet" movies that came out last year and 6 or more purely CG films (not counting smaller studios) and countless others that use CG animation as visual effects or in addition to traditional animation. Saying that CG isn't a bigger field than puppeteering is trolling for an argument.

And yes, it doesn't take a year to learn to model a fork. But I've seen plenty of people being set back by learning to model and texture and (especially) rig before they begin animating. Even from personal experience, my animation improved greatly when I started using professional rigs and models, not just a couple of bones thrown together because I wanted to use my own "rig"

As David said focus on animation as you already sound like you are going to do. Sure it helps to know the basics of modeling, texturing etc...yet if you wish to be a character animator in the realm of computers this is really not important.

In school I did nothing but focus on animation. Thus software wise I only know the animation aspect of it and never had any problems. Heck...the only thing I can do with the hypershade is apply a lambert! ;)

It has never been an issue and I was hired at my current location based on what I could animate. I leave it to the other guys here to use their specialty in modeling, lighting etc. It helps to know a little about everyones specialties as it makes you work better with a team yet trust me that knowledge will come the more you work with others.

As for software I am biased and will say Maya since its pretty much all I use proffessionally. However, I am eager to learn softimage since it is so cheap. I dont know where you stand animation wise BoonDoggler but if you are fairly new then pick up some books about traditional aspects like Richard Williams "Animation Survival Kit" and apply it to 3D. To learn the software itself and thinking in terms of CG ie. graph editor, dope sheet etc. you can always find books that will go into detail about this stuff. Just do a search on Amazon.

Finally....if you really want some good tutorials about animating CG then head on over to www.keithlango.com and read some of his tutorials or even sign up for his video tutorial service that will offer even more insight.

Hope some of this stuff helps you get on your way. If you want to be an animator just start off using pre built rigs and start animating!

I have a friend (A professional 3D animator) offer to get me started, ( "hold my hand", show me keyframing , facial animation etc with a ready-made model, ) How long do you experienced Cg animators think it would take to learn to strictly use the program's animation module from there?

Hey Graphiteman,

I would say a good month getting used to it. If you are experienced traditionally it could even be faster if you just consider it an expensive pencil and apply what you do traditionally to the computer...ie. setting up key's breakdowns, inbetweens.

Usually people who come from a more traditional background in my experience seem to pick it up faster. Of course it may take a few months to truly feel comfortable with the medium as you will constantly pick up new tricks to apply to your work.

Best of luck to ya! Just beat into your head that it is an expensive pencil and you still will be touching nearly every frame as you would drawing. You just to view your work real time instead of capturing pencil test all day!

Go to Desktop Images to see if they have a DVD on the software you have picked to learn on.