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Flash character animation beta testing!

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Okay. Here's mine.

http://www3.telus.net/drard/butler.html

Nice... I do not have a website and I don't know Flash, so... your animation loads very fast and runs well, is that because you are using Flash?

I'm glad to hear that it is a monitor issue. I was a little worried that the leg out in front of the torso was there for artistic purposes or something and that by bringing it up, I would be questioning your artistic vision!
:p

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Haha so refined, so subdued. That makes my stuff look awful. You said he's new to Flash -- is he new to animation? He seems to have a sensibility about his work. The little tick of the leg. The settling of the dialogue.

Are you going to use what he does as a sort of "sample" for what these packs can do?

I'm not sure of his animation experience, but I have seen some of his illustrations and they are quite good.

Perhaps I will use his or any other animation tests that really stand out on the site and sammples of what others have done.

***Do you guys think it would be necessary to throw in a back view of the character in the pack as well?****

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

I think it would be thoughtful if you're willing to do the extra work. It's a bit more "complete," a bit more thorough. Most model sheets have full turnarounds if I'm not mistaken.

On the other hand, consider how many times with gesture and staging you'd use the back of him...The percentage would be in the minority, especially for those getting their feet wet. Until they learn to avoid cliche everything "clear" to them is going to mean 100% frontals and profiles.

BH,

I'm going to post this thread on another forum.
I want to see more people doing the butler.
Do you think you can post a female character this time?
Maybe a dumb blonde?
This is addicting!

Glad that you are having fun with this! Are you referring to the blonde girl in the tutorial?
http://clubhouse.cartoonsolutions.com/mouth_comps.html
She actually is from a completed character pack, but she is going to be one of the ones for purchase. At this point I can't hand any more out for the testing since they take between 4-6 hours each to make. I'm trying to build up the content for the store.

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

4-6 hrs? You -are- a Flashmaster! There's a process just in building a segmentable design...lots of considerations. Plus drawing, coloring, in various views. I respect that. Any advanced word on the ballpark price of these? Are there possibly different prices for different complexities? Unless they're ambition Joe New Guy might be intimidated by the Butler but if there was a small child, let's say, or something that even lacks a couple limbs...maybe that's to taste. Or is the whole point to show that anyone can start with these (whatever level the complexity) and have the characters do their bidding in no time?

Since you guys have all been so helpful testing this character and providing feedback, I thought I would finally let you in on all the details of the site, so here they are....

ANIMATORS CLUBHOUSE

A section of the current Cartoon Solutions website will be devoted to providing resources to animators in the form of tutorials and "Character Packs" that they can download and use to animate with, and a monthly animation competition that encourages improving animation skills.

TUTORIALS
The tutorials will focus on all of the traditional animation principles, but show how to achieve them digitally using Flash. Effects animation will also be a big feature as well, since there seems to be a lot of interest in that area, but no good resources on it that are readily available.

COMPETITION:
The competition will be a way for animators to take what they are learning and apply them in a fun, competitive way. The Character packs come into play with the competition, by providing the animators with a free pre-made character that they are required to have in the animation. Just like the 10 second club (http://www.10secondclub.net) an audio clip will be provided to animate to. Each monthly competition will have a free character pack that users will download. Included in the .fla will be a preloader and the audio clip already edited and on the timeline, ready to be animated to. The competition needs to appeal to a wide range of skill sets. For the novice who may not have much art skill, the character pack is an exciting way to have great art at their disposal which they can use to animate with and not have to worry about the aesthetics of their art. It's also a time saver for them so that they don't need to spend hours creating and designing a character to animate. For the experienced animator, who may want to use his own characters, he can implement the free character subtly as a background character or on a tv in the background, or in many creative ways. They can also have fun by manipulating, changing and altering the character however they like. They may want to change the colors or the features so that the character appears to be a zombie. Having the free character required helps give everyone a common element in their animation. From there it is all about how the animator has used the character. How they chose to animate him to the audio clip, move him around the stage etc.

CHARACTER PACKS
There will be a store where other Character packs will be available for purchase. These characters can be purchased and used in the competition should the animator choose to add additional characters to their animation.

STORE
The purpose of the store is to not only provide more characters for animation within the competition, but for anyone who wants to buy a character for other projects. Characters can be used in animatorsÕ personal animations and cartoons. Or, graphic designers could purchase a character to implement within a custom logo. Once they purchase the character they are free to alter or manipulate the art however they like, providing a base character for them to work from.
The store will also feature backgrounds that can be purchased as well as animated effects and props. Over time the character library will grow and different styles will be implemented as well. Examples could include Anime/Manga, retro/50's and extreme/realistic (comic book).

POLLS
In order to know what characters will sell well, we will have a "wish-list" form that users can fill out and request certain types of characters that they'd like to see made into character packs. Of course if someone wanted a custom character made just for them, they could pay for one to be designed using the "business services" part of the site which is currently up.
Once a number of "wish-list" requests have come in, a poll will be implemented where between 5 and 10 character ideas will be posted for users to vote on. The most popular of that poll will be made into a character pack. Perhaps a rough sketch of each character would be included in the poll as visual aids.

FORUMS
The message boards or forums will be a place for artists and animators to get together and share tips and tricks, show off personal animations, link to websites of interest, or talk about the industry.

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Did you finally get the submission kinks worked out for the competition?

The character packs will all have the same level of complexity to them. They need to be standard with every character, so a customer knows everytime what to expec with thier character pack.

As far as submissions go, I don't see it being a big issue since all of the files will be in .swf format which should save a lot of filesize. We will probably have them upload their animation to us, and then we will put together the page with thumbnails of all the submissions where they can be viewed.

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Touche'. It's late, I wasn't thinking; these aren't the 2D in the traditional sense we spoke of before. It's Flash so no one's gonna need to do MPEGs or anything crazy.

Categorization can help with expectations. But I do see how a consistent middle-ground can build the broadest base.

Any advanced word on the ballpark price of these?

Good question and I'll throw that out to you guys for your opinioins. I have a price in my head that I've been considering, but I'd like to know what you think. I'd especially like to know the opinions of those who have downloaded the character and animated with it, what you value the character at. So that would be Swankaman, Phacker, Scattered, PCDoctor and Animated Ape. And of course anyone else who has an opinion, I'm willing to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

It's a dubious job. One of the great successes is that it all appears so ridiculously simple. I certainly wouldn't let anyone else know you pump them out so quickly. People seeing time = money and all. But there's also a lot of versatility. And then there's the consideration of which characters are free and the decisions made to make which ones at a given price. You say they'd get backgrounds, perhaps test audio, and a generous license (You know how many racetracks illegally use Warner Bros. characters? Imagine what ignorant people -- whom I've seen get jobs ahead of sane people who obey the law, go figure -- would do if they had something they had the RIGHT to use!)...

If it was a one-time purchase (that is, requiring no renewals)? This is essentially software within the software of Flash. I also see this as becoming reasonably popular, and doing the multiplication of independent software (let's say 30 bucks) it's not too shabby relative for the time spent in production. Then there are the costs involved with covering the incidentals which add up like minor art assistance and (depending on what kind of hosting package you have) the bandwidth...

Having played with it, and knowing what it was like -wanting- to play with it before I had the chance to: 18-20 dollars. I hope that's not too low. I think it covers your bases and then there's a markup for the quality and the sheer sake of profit. You have to consider how -many- people could buy it too, that would make what you might see as a lower price turn out to build up into something stronger. But I'm reasonably poor more or less and if I had 18-20 I'd consider shelling it on that (IF these and Flash were direct interests of mine...right now they aren't but I'm projecting myself into the mindset)...

At the same time people selling 3D models charge from 5 to 1000 bucks depending on the effort that went into its creation and how eager they are to not see it spread around. I say think to yourself some high number and go "Is it reasonable yet? No? OK, little further down." and stop when you get happy ;)

......... I would be questioning your artistic vision!
:p

It's okay. I question it all the time. I'm afraid the answer might be bifocals!:D

Nice... I do not have a website and I don't know Flash, so... your animation loads very fast and runs well, is that because you are using Flash?

I think it's just experience.
My first flash cartoon 4 years ago weighed in at 5 megs. (it had imported drawings frame by frame and bitmapped traced by flash.)
Trying to be efficient and learning how to use symbols, comps, instances, nested symbols, etc really keeps that number down. That is Flash's killer app. My butler weighs in at 51 k.
Heaven knows there is still animation that we wait forever to load. So it depends on how one uses it.

someone I know who went through the tutorials in Flash and then the very first thing he has animated has been with the butler character.

I was wondering if this was the first time he used flash.
If so, he must be the Ray Charles of flash.

BH,

I'm going to post this thread on another forum.
I want to see more people doing the butler.

If you do, please let me know where you post it, so I can follow along!

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

I directed these folks to your thread.

http://www.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=633349

Great samples Blue...reminds me of the game Clue. As to the price thing, a couple years ago someone else came out with this type of model, I'll try and hunt it down and see how it went over.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Beta Tests

Per request I am contributing the two anims I have done so far, getting familiar with the process. I was really into it to see what could be done. Within the next few days I want to go in and really -animate- something. I can say that the process of entering in dialogue and even the versatility to easily extend the capabilities of BlueHickey's package are tremendously simple to accomplish once you're inside. There's hardly a learning curve, even if you're new to Flash -- if you're willing to read the tutorials.

The dialogue (try to only look at the head and torso, you might go blind otherwise) is here http://www.studentofanimation.com/BlueHickey.wmv and a simple walk cycle is at http://www.studentofanimation.com/WalkCycle.MOV ...

I encourage others to give it a go and share what they get done with this character. It really didn't take a lot of time to do those, so I'm sure in a little over an hour you could have something pretty nice.

Just wanted to let you all know that I've added some teaser pics of the characters and backgrounds that are done so far.

http://clubhouse.cartoonsolutions.com

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

I like your kitchen scene reminds me of this one I used in a couple of cards.

http://www.tco.net/~phacker/scooter/remembermama.html

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

The characters and backgrounds look great!

This is nuts.

Kitchen:
http://clubhouse.cartoonsolutions.com/images/preview/kitchen_pre.jpg
http://www.simpworks.com/YaBBAttachments/Kitchen.jpg

Front Room:
http://clubhouse.cartoonsolutions.com/images/preview/frontroom_pre.jpg
http://www.wvah.com/programs/familyguy/cast3.jpg

What are the odds? A little spacing/rearranging and it's like they bought their houses from the same developer. It amazes me that some guy on a farm in China could come up with a similar idea to a total stranger in a NYC apartment even though they're worlds apart. (If you're curious about the Family Guy stairs, they're at the far right end of the room instead of leading directly up from the doorway.)

Blue,

Ms. Pamela on flashkit.com responded to your butler cartoon.

http://www.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=633349

ha, that's funny. The designs must come from the unconcious. Being influenced by so many things, it slowly comes out with out it even being intentional!

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

your character

One of my students could do it for you Im sure. Just login on animationpool.com and send a request, it'll be send to my class.

There are just basic things you have to have in a kitchen. A sink, frig, and range...plus eveyone needs cupboards and a window, how many different ways can you arrange them. And from the thirties to the seventies they were pretty much standard in every home. So I guess most of us share some sort of a common "background".

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Thanks for letting me know. She emailed me her swf file. I wish she had asked me for the fla file to save her time not having to recreate/trace the art on her end.

Isn't there a way that I could export all of the body parts as a .swf file that could be imported into swish?

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

haha No one thinks he lifted it, the Family Guy one isn't even that strong; it's just amusing for the sheer coincidence.

And if there are 9 ways to arrange three appliances, there ought to be many more when you factor in other items at various sizes and shapes. It's the staging that seals it.

I guess Marge's kitchen is for the serious housewife.

I always considered Marge Simpson as a serious housewife, so why shouldn't she have a seriously designed kitchen, she has to feed that moron and his children, with very little positive feedback. Besides she has to deal with that blue hair of hers. That must make for higher ceilings than I was used to in my youth.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

the legs on the walk look much better! I see that the front arm, the shoulder is seperating from the body just a bit during one of the tweens. Oftentimes, you have to set an additional key frame in the tweened section and pull it back into position with the body. Sometimes you even end up having to keyframe the whole tweened section just because the pivot/center points of the arm and torso symbols are acting independent of one another and don't always feel obligated to stay in sync with each other!

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Phacker, I totally agree. I don't see Peg Bundy in this kitchen.

Did Peg Bundy ever stop filing her nails and get off the couch?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

It's been a while since I used swish and I never imported any graphics.
I'm looking forward to seeing more stuff on the butler.

So Blue what's your plan is thing going to be sold to one of those template like companies that sell easy to make animation to the masses?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Actually I explained that in an e-mail a couple days back. I wanted to keep the shoulder part jutting off like that because it also can look like a ruffle in the pads. In retrospect it's a decent idea for a still but in motion if every -other- frame doesn't make it a shoulder pad ruffle then it looks ridiculous. And I learn some more =)

So Blue what's your plan is thing going to be sold to one of those template like companies that sell easy to make animation to the masses?

No, definitely not sell it to any other company. Cartoon Solutions will be the company that sells the characters. I especially see the education field as being ripe for the harvest with all of the flash classes that are being taught at the college and university levels, besides the hobbyists who just want to make a fun cartoon, but yet lack the drawing skills. This way they can get up and running since they know the program, and don't have to get frustrated with their lack of artistic ability.

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Actually I explained that in an e-mail a couple days back. I wanted to keep the shoulder part jutting off like that because it also can look like a ruffle in the pads. In retrospect it's a decent idea for a still but in motion if every -other- frame doesn't make it a shoulder pad ruffle then it looks ridiculous. And I learn some more =)

ah yes, I see what you mean. Sometimes as a single pose when you are keying it out, it may work, but it's different when it's animating.

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Aside from timing that's my biggest thing. In drawing class the say go general to specific, don't stay in one area; keep working around because you get your nose stuck into it; in animation it's that I have to concentrate on the context of surrounding frames, the entire action as a whole, etc. Even if it is Flash animation which I've yet to really get to know.

As an aside, how are you going to prevent people pirating those? You'd think education would be a safe place, but at least on a community college level I've seen professors steal everything but the software itself when it comes to tools, assignments, "programs within programs" like this. You don't wanna become the functional equivalent of a chain joke mailed around the office. And certainly younger kids as a whole who wanna learn Flash would be eager to 'get it from their friends' (not all of them, but as a whole that seems to be the mentality)...In any event I wish you the best of fortunes against that.

I have swish version 2.0 (2002 edition).
I tried to import the butler.swf using swish and it wouldn't let me.
I got an unknown error when trying to import the butler.swf file.
I'm going to try and save the butler.swf file as a flash 5 file.
I just open the original butler file and saved it as a flash 5.fla
I then exported the .swf as a flash 5.swf.
I was then able to open the flash5.swf file using swish 2.0
I assume the newer version of swish would be able to import this same swf file.
Attached is the flash5.swf file of the butler that I was able to open using swish 2.0

Attachment 

I haven't used swish in a while and then only thing I've ever animated with it is text.

Here is my updated lipsync for the butler.

I added a mouth for mbp for the front and did it the hard way in order to see what I was doing.

Attachment 

Here is another updated lipsync for the butler. I scaled the head and mouths so that the cartoon is displayed larger.

Attachment 

Piracey is a huge issue that affects a lot of different products and industries. We plan on including a single user agreement for each character pack. We can't stop people from sharing the files, but I would really like to keep people from turning around and selling them on their own site, and making money from our product.

Here is another walk cycle that was done by someone els trying out the character pack:

http://clubhouse.cartoonsolutions.com/images/brentwalk.swf

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Ummm, I still think you have grabbed the wrong head again from the library. You have used one of the parts that make up the Butlers head. If you watch Phackers animation, you'll see that the chin is included with the head:

http://www.tco.net/~phacker/AWN/butler.html

There is a symbol in the library that when you see it, it will be complete with chin and a mouth. In fact in the library viewer window you'll see a little "play" button triangle which, if you click it will show all of the mouth positions and expressions playing sequencially. If you still have trouble locating it, I can send you an fla with the correct head already on the stage ready to go.

Good luck!

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Gotcha.

Got it.
I guess I was trying to do the lipsync on my own.
I guess that gave me some practice.
Hopefully, this will be able to help me do my own lipsyncing.

Anyone else have more tests to show with the character? I'd love to see some more acting as well as cycles

Flash Character Packs, Video Tutorials and more: www.CartoonSolutions.com

Well guys.

I think I have bitten off more than I can chew.
My flash test looks like crap.
I'm too embarrased to post it.
I'm not an animator and it shows.
I'm just a wannabe.
The mouth comps is confusing as H to me.
I'm a computer tech/network admin by trade.
I have a hard time matching up the mouths with the sounds.
I'll post my modified fla file.
I admit I've only created one cartoon using flash and it was very simple.
I need to start back reading the flash cartooning books that I have and start doing the exercises.
Please dont laugh at my attempts.
I'm going to upload the fla that I did to a website.
I wish someone could show me what mouths I need to match up with the words so I can understand what I'm doing better.
Basically, can someone edit the butlertest.fla file and tell me what I'm doing wrong?
Note: I didn't complete the whole lipsync thing because I was getting worse and worse.
Thx

http://webpages.charter.net/cartoons/butlertest.fla

Attachment 
Hmmmm

Hey Dr. Ill check it out, maybe we can learn something together.
Im no pro but I have animated a few cartoons in Flash.

Hey guys I have been working on it but I dont have a clue as how to post it correctly with the sound and all.Ill emial the swf to Ryan and/or any onle else who can host it.
Not finished but its a start, cool system if I can just remember "whats where".
I used the X tutorial as well and it worked perfectly (for my first try..)
I am such a cheapo I allways used the Magpie demo to lay out my path and then write everything down and transfer those positions into versions of my own into Flash.....FRAME BY FRAME....
dOH!

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