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Which topic do you think is better to write on for an essay?
1. Discuss to what extent animation has expressed gender issues? In particular how has it explored the nature of femininity and the experience of being female?

2. Discuss the forces that have shaped and driven the relationship between comic strips and the animated film.

i would say number two. i can think of interesting things for that topic right now. and it seems like you would have more information and things to back up your thesis to make it really well rounded.

number one seems too much like the the dreaded "feminist lens" that english teachers are always pushing for. >_o and when i read it, i had to read it at least twice, and i couldn't think of ANYTHING for it. and anything that comes up is too far fetched in my opinion.

sooo numba dos. i'd say.

hmmm was thinking of that too especially with all the clear examples we have popping out into our nearest cinemas. i guess examples would be like x men? spawn? spiderman etc? i assume the comics came out first before the cartoons on tv then followed by movies rite? what are the interesting ideas u have upon reading this topic? mind sharing? :D

i mean, just look at any good comic book. its as if youre holding a printed/edited version of a good movie. they're both telling a story with a predetermined point of veiw through shots(panels),angles, and pacing.

i think the force that shaped and drove the relashionship between the two is in the fact that they are both so similar and they are following the same path. This in turn causes them to interact with each other, usually in a positive way.

hmmmm...i just noticed that i am thinking in terms of comic books and animated films, not comic strips . >_<

and i have been alerted by my friend to the fact that similarity is not a force. heh. i don't know about that. but he did bring up that both are using visuals to support a story, and that could be a driving force in their relationship.

who knows. my brain hurts. the more i think about this the more confused i get. the summer has been rotting my brain.

hmmmm guess i gotta clarify some stuff with my tutor :p

probably in my essay i could start by talking abt comic strips n how it started. then due to the popularity of the comic strips came the birth of comic books. And then later on talk abt the relationship between the comics n animated film???

boy this unit i'm taking is driving me nuts :eek:

Actually, topic #1 seems more interesting to me. There has been a big "girl power" theme going on in animation lately that I think contrasts with the "damsel in distress" model that was so popular at one point in time. I also think this topic would be more interesting just because I haven't seen a lot written about it. :p

Sharvonique

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number one seems too much like the the dreaded "feminist lens" that english teachers are always pushing for

Hey I'm an English teacher! The only place I have a question like that is during the unit on Of Mice and Men when we discuss Curley's Wife.

But the ol' feminist lens is out there. Done properly, it can be an interesting study, but it can also turn viscious and overly political.

Both topics look interesting. Gender issues in animation? One thing about animation is that is tends to exaggerate its subject matter. The old Looney Toons, for example work from a few basic stereotypes of men, women, children, etc. What is exaggerated about the women or the men? Or take a look at Scooby! Here's a group of kids, each with its own stereotype- the hottie, the brainy chick, the smart jocko dude, and the--well, what is Shaggy? Okay, the stoner dude...

Seems like more and more cartoons these days (based on what I get on my two channels on rabbit ears) tends to blur those a bit in the interests of being didactic and politically correct, but they still represent some of the same types. If you stretch from Disney to the present you have some rich source material to draw from.

How long is your essay to be and when is it due?

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...

I'd have to agree that topic one might be more interesting simply because it seems less has been written on gender issues in animation. You could do a comparison of gender representations within specific styles of animation.

In the JUST HAD TO GET MY TWO CENTS IN category, what's so 'dreadful' about the 'ol feminist lens'? I'm really not sure what that means in animation, but in live-action it usually refers to the formal points of a film, like framing, pacing, etc, and seems to be more 'socialistic'. And I think it's main motivation is to wipe out the male gaze. So? You guys really can't mean that anytime a woman tells her story that it's 'just' an 'ol feminist story'. When a child (yes a GIRL) spends the first 18 years of her life being told she's the 'gate of hell', well, THAT kind of CLOUDS (not colors) her perspective of the world, needless to say what kind of psychic damage it does. Is that the kind of 'dread' you don't want to see? :eek: DAMN! I'VE REVEALED TOO MUCH! :rolleyes: Seriously, How is it vicious for a woman to tell her story any way that she can? I agree that some films made by women follow the 'party line' too stringently and could even be considered reactionary, but so does porn. I don't see porn being vilified and satirized (I'm not sure how you'd parody porn :confused: ) for de-humanizing women, but hell, if a woman tells her own story and uses some of the cliches of feminist filmmaking then, BURN HER AT THE STAKE, FOR SHE DID NOT USE OUR LANGUAGE! The personal is political. (yeah, yeah, another feminist idiom)

Sorry ta spend your quarter, JuzaGirl!

I agree. I would also chose to answer the first question. Perhaps comparing an early animation such as 'Snow White' or 'Sleeping Beauty' to something like Shrek. That Princess Fiona can take care of herself!

Have you seen 'The Glass Ceiling'? One of my tutors worked on it and we say it in uni. If you haven't seen it, try to get hold of a copy, it could be worth writing about.

JuzaGirl,

I wish to apologize, while I believe what I expressed in my post to be relevant to your first proposal, I should have started a new thread instead of ruining yours.

To the rest of the forum, please assist Juzagirl with her efforts. (I promise not to rant and rave!)

Bird

hey Bird...

Lighten up on yerself. There's a few things to be taken from your post for all of us, and as always, there are many approaches and views to consider. I say say your piece and never apologize. Each of us has a unique perspective, and we need to honor what is ours.

And I truly belive there's a connection between your post and any of the feminist issues to be found in animation topics. Sorta what I was saying, but maybe more forceful and driven from you, is that the representation of the genders in animation really says something about our society and its views.

You go, I say...

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...

Thanks RupertPiston, You made my day! :) :) :)

Bird

I think neither one is a good topic, only because they are too broad and general. There is too much to be said about either topic (unless you are talking about a master's thesis)...Either topic could be made better by picking two specific examples and contrasting them. Trust me, the more specific you make your topic, ironically, the easier it is to write. Also you might want to limit your coverage to a specific window in time, or you might want to specifically contrast two periods in time with an example of each.

I once wrote a paper comparing "Le Mort d'Artur" to "Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail" for a "Great Books" class (no joke!) I started writing, and it turned out to be too broad. So I focused on contrasting the characters, and that turned out to be too broad. I picked one character, Sir Lancelot du Luc, and wrote several pages comparing and contrasting the portrayals of the characters. Ironically, the more I focused the topic, the easier it got to write. I left out literally pages more material that I could have written! (If you've never studied the Arthurian legends, they really nailed all the characters perfectly, then took each stereotype and went way over the top in parody.) The paper ended up being the teacher's favorite (but then, "Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail" was also her favorite movie :) )

In this case, for the first, I might pick Betty Boop and Kim Possible and specifically point out what is common and what is different about their portrayals of gender issues and, importantly, how they reflect the values of the broader sociey of the time.

hello everyone =)

hi rupertpiston :) my essay is due in abt 4 weeks time BUT at the same time i have 3 other major projects to do so i am dying a slow n painful death haha

well i have decided to scrap the comic topic. not becoz of u guys but becoz the topic is way too broad etc etc...

bird16: hey no problem. hope u guys would just continue to post in stuff to help me out. :D

i agree with wat u guys have said. totally.

thanks u guys!!

more postings would be greatly appreciated! :D :p

oh and sorry for replying so late!
was swamped with other stuff the past few weeks

:(

You're pretty cool, juzagirl! I hope I can help in the future (minus politics, of course). :D

bird

Related to this discussion is some work we've been doing in my grade 11 English class. We're reading Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which got me to looking for video and/or audio clips featuring Warner Brothers renditions featuring the ol' "Hey George" routine. Found some cool stuff thanks to some help from folks at the Animation Nation forum and have put it to use in class, with good results.

This got me thinking about how many classic animations link in to works of great literature and music, not to mention films that were current in their day. I wonder if these days they'd run into any copyright issues but there are some great references to literature in a number of golden age cartoons.

Just thought I'd put another two cents in... Keep up the good work Juzagirl.

Nice to see your post, too, Bird. By the way have you seen my latest animation?

Sorry for that... back to you Juza

Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...