i'm not kidding guys..
Each time someone asks what makes a great movie, the stoty issue comes up first!
YOU NEED A GOOD story!!
Ok
Point taken..
what is it though??
I mean.. i'm not even talking about the components.. Characters, settings and such and such..( notice i 'm not elaborating on these for there again there are issues as what these are!)
But
seriously.. TO YOU girls and gents..
what is A story..
???
P
ahh, yes indeed..what IS a story?..usually a collection of bon mots, outlandish lies, half baked truths, and the odd bit of tarted up plagiarism, all designed to keep the audience enthralled just long enough to slip your hand into his/her pocket and extract a wallet full of dinero...or so I've found.
...I'm sure there are one or two folks here at awn that could spin a tale or two..ulalume has a few knee slappers from his sweaty childhood on the cattle ranch..and der Hammer must have some fond memories of working with the beluga headed giant
..and they all start with Once upon a time.......
In 1976, Elia Kazan made a movie from a F. Scott Fitzgerald book called "The Last Tycoon". It features Robert De Niro, Tony Curtis, Robert Mitchum, Jeanne Moreau and Jack Nicholson.
There's a scene where Monroe Stahr tells a writer what does he need to write a good movie.
Watch "The Last Tycoon" with a candle burning, and you'll see your future.
danielpoeira.org
Julian Phillips
P.O. Box 414
Santa Margarita, CA 93453
julian@tcsn.net
805-438-4363
Management: Clark Management
Agent: Elda Loesch 818-577-0981
Thought I'd take a shot at this one. I've written ten feature screenplays, including one for animation; I am also writing a series of 3D cartoons for a company in Belgium, as well as a series of children's books---this in addition to published fiction, radio drama, all kinds of 'crap'. Someone once said, 'The world is not made of atoms. It is made of stories.' You KNOW what a good story is---your own story, your own life, things you've heard. In our age, it is perhaps not incidental to note that more billions of people are enjoying more thousands upon thousands of fictional stories in more powerful and impressive formats than ever before in human history. With animation, the artist's canvas is expanded exponetially into the realm of the purely imaginative. But the fundamentals of story, drama, etc., remain pretty much the same, and modern audiences expect certain things. Set-up, conflict, protagonist and antagonist, building action, crescendo and resolution. You can read endless books on the subject, and you would do well to do so. It's all subjective, as art, and only you can decide what story you will tell. Ask yourself, what is the theme here? What am I trying to say? What point do I want to make? Why are these characters interesting, compelling, or dull? These and other tricks of the trade will help you create a screen story that will move, be enjoyable, and more than just a collection od disconnected events or images. I highly recommend studying this process for anyone taking the time to make an animated film.
Julian Phillips
P.O. Box 414
Santa Margarita, CA 93453
julian@tcsn.net
805-438-4363
Management: Clark Management
Agent: Elda Loesch 818-577-0981
To me, a good story is, once done, one that I sit back and wish I'd written.
It must be entertaining and engaging--hold my interest and have some kind of closure. It must take me somewhere, but doesn't have to travel too far.
It must make sense, and have integrity within itself.
It should not waste my time.
It should introduce me to interesting people, make them worthwhile to spend the time with and let me gracefully take my leave of them at the end.
It should offer me something to see, preferably things I have not seen before or at least not too often.
If it taps into my own dreams then it is truly special, because then the vision of the story is akin to my own ambitions in stoytelling.
My own immortal gauge is an 8 year old that dwells inside of me. If he likes it, then I know its good.
Keep in mind that what I like in a story is not what anyone else need like--that is why my answers are somewhat vague.
--Ken
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
well, there you have it my lad...a handful of definitions...one of us is telling you the straight goods, the other 3 are all engaged in a pissing contest...it's up to YOU to decide who's right (and dont take too long, there are others who need to use the room too)
AHAHAHH , mr. meriwether...you're always a funny guy!
Ilove you rposting on most of the forums, same goes for wade when he does, and actually , everybody else's..
graphite man, joel peet, and, recently , ken, who has a very nice and deep understanding( probably experinece also) of the industry!
Anyway.
my question was a little bit more to know what other people think about what a stroy is...because i already have my idea of what it is..for me!
great character that take me through the experience of emotions and change.
Wether it is an intimist story of two people falling in love in a subway station, or an epic tale of clashing planets in order to save humanity,
what it boils down to , for me, is the emotional " journey" you undergo
By emotional, I want to distinguish the: sensorial" joyride most movies have these days!
there is a difference.
The sensorial joyride is , like the sauce on the pasta...It makes it so much better when it's well down....nevertheless, you still need the pasta!
which is the characters and their interaction.
So.. that's pretty briefly explained what i think a story is about.
I just wanted to figure out if people also were thinking about it!
I was also reacting to that thing that eisner was saying about the death of two d animation, and the reactions of the awn forum dwellers saying that what you needed was good stories to save The medium..
I thought it was interesting to explore this!
P.
If you are looking for a good resource there is a new book out there called:
Inspired 3d Short Film Production by Jeremy Cantor
It's all about creating an animated short and it follows the production pipeline for the order of the book. The first couple of chapters are about story and character development; they’re really well done.
ed
Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida
I'll check it out Ed.. thanks a lot!!
P.
What a fellow like Michael Eisner doesn't appear to understand is that a person with two sock-puppets on their hands can spin a tale that can bring forth peals of laughter or reduce the listener to tears.
From sock puppets , no less.
The "value" of 2D, 3D or NO "D" entertainment is only in the stories they tell, not in the medium they present.
Guys like Eisner should be focused more on magic moments than on money and methods.
--Ken
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Guys like Eisner should be focused more on magic moments than on money and methods.
ken... i totally agree with you
p.
definition of a story :)
start:
blabla
blabla
blabla blabla
and they lived happily ever after.
end:
:)
Visit my site http://www.animdesk.com
Hello.
A good story is driven by the CHARACTER'S NEEDS.
The story is structured - it has a BEGINNING and a MIDDLE and an END.
In animation, the film is broken down into SEQUENCES (which are like the chapters of a book) and then the sequences are broken down in SCENES (the individual shots or camera angles).
Each SEQUENCE can also have a BEGINNING, a MIDDLE and an END.
Usually at the end of a SEQUENCE there is a PLOT POINT (which usually grows out of the character's need's or some circumstance within the story). The PLOT POINT can add information or development about the character(s) and send the story in another direction.
A good ending or resolution of the story usually resolves the needs of the character(s) and shows their progress.
Also remember...character(s) are defined by ACTION.
The best stories usually involve some sort of CONFLICT - be it, internal or external. Several conflicts can be unfolding throughout the film and it's sequences- again, in the end, all is resolved.
Short films have simple structures which may involve just a beginning (the quick establishment of a dilemma), the middle (the acting or working out of the dilemma) and the resolution (of the dilemma). Obviously, not much character development occurs in a short BUT the CHARACTER NEEDS still need to be addressed.
Hope this helps!
Thanks.
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
No doubt you're ready to move on, what with Shany's supplying the definitive :) but I thought I'd stick my big fat opinion in here.
Yah, yah, yah, they yak about story. I think they got their terms wrong. I am afflicted by story. I'm peskered by the little buggers day in and out. But whoever hands out the talents thought I didn't deserve to get my fair share of plotting ability. The bastard. I struggle like crazy for plot (good news is, it's just a skill. And even better news is, I'm not alone.)
Some great stories have been ruined for absence of plot. Some okay stories shine because someone played with them and layered them with great characters.
Plot plot plot - forget the story. And I don't care if I'm the only one who thinks so. I feel like being right today.
"Lord of the Rings is about the same thing as any other story in the world: death."
- J. R. R. Tolkien
danielpoeira.org
Good story is: 1) characters which must be unique; 2) action of this characters which must take your attention every moment. That's all.
After being totally enthralled by Triplettes of Bellevile I realized story in Film is not so much what is told but how it is told.
I thought if someone had told me the story of triplets I would have thought they were a little crazy. But how it was told ...and visual at that....really made it.
I've always been partial to 'A Day in the Life' sort of stories. A very simple trek through a person's life and struggles.
Smart dialogue never hurts. Although 'My Dinner with Andre' was a bit much, it's an incredibly brave undertaking to make a feature film that relies solely on the dinner conversaton of two people. As opposed to relying on mindless violence, half-dressed women and seemingly endless car chases.
Ending a movie on a hopeful note is always appreciated as well.
Ciao!
my my my .. it does apear as if EVERYONE hears the same word, but has a different definition for it
And , this is coming from people who are actually acute to the subject itself..
hum.. this is very interesting
I agree with most of the remarks, though not all
The tone is a very very important aspect of a story to me, too often overlooked.
My dinner with andre , allthough , hard for me to watch, left me with a sensation of hope and laughter...sign that it was agreat story, well told( it was just hard because i was not used to that way of telling!)
Shany's definition, allthough starightto the pointis .. actually , well, exactly that straight to the point
I could go on about everybody'sdefinition, but i think we all got the point that everyone of us has a slightly or wildly different approach to this item..
This is pretty cool, i think.. don't you??
P.
To me, a story is anything that I observe and I am able to tell someone else about it later on.
Stories, in general, come from dreams, books, music, other people etc etc etc....gosh theres so many it's impossible to run out of 'em. :D
Story...
Here's some of the things that have really helped me in developing story. Basically, you've got two parts - story structure, like Larry is talking about - things that every story has in common; and your own creative style, which is personal.
Other than that, here's how things break down. Things [in bracket] you need to fill in
[Character] / Does [something] / and it [resolves]
Sounds easy, huh? Try putting movies into this set up.
Neo, a hacker/tries to find out of he is the One/and stops agent smith
We'll ignore the sequels because they are stupid.
Shrek, an oger / goes on a quest to get his land back / and marries the princess.
Once you've got that, you get a little more complex...like Larry was talking about. Here's some general pointers:
If you introduce something in the beginning (character, gismo, location) make sure you do something with it, or it becomes a loose end
If you introduce something in the end, (character, gismo, location) make sure its been introduced in the beginning, even if its a hint. In the first part of The Minority Report, they introduce the entire workings of the time cops before they deal with anything else - the rules are established, and they stick to them
Main characters have EMOTIONAL ARCS - pixar movies are excellent examples of this. We understand that Woody and Buzz are both nice guys, but we see them get angry, laugh, cry, be disgusted, be suprised, etc.
GET FEEDBACK - Great stories aren't written, they are re-written over and over again until the structure and the style completely balance each other.
Alright, now get to it!
Kevin