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Looking for some guidance from established animators

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Looking for some guidance from established animators

I'd like to get back into animating as a living. Currently I live in NY and if I can avoid it I'd like not to move to CA, I like being close to my family. Ever since I graduated in 2006 I had to bite and claw to even get an interview. I had an animation test with Animation Collective which I could not complete because my school (Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale) did not prepare me for working with a wacom tablet or even hint that paperless studios existed. I purchased a tablet soon after and have become proficient with it and using flash as opposed to working with pencil and a light table. But ever since that interview I have pretty much toiled in obscurity, I worked on a 2D web dancing game for which I animated dance moves, and ever since have been stuck at a boring job as a tech support guy. Working in a non creative field provided me with the security I craved but the mundane nature of it is crushing my soul slowly. If anyone knows of any studios in the NYC area that are hiring people please let me know. I'm starting to lose my mind. I cant understand with such a large popular city, how is it that we small market for animation?

Unfortunately the only work I have to show at the moment is my old demo reel and a link for the game I worked on. My skills have improved since and I am currently working on a short 2D film. Any critiques of my old work are welcome. Thanks all.

2D Reel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1_EBm_yO_Y

Johnny--
From where I sit, you have two paths: make your work like the work being produced at the studios you want to work at.
That is to say get your drawing up to their level. When you get there, you should have no trouble getting hired anywhere.

The other path is to stay at the current job, keep the income coming in....and do the animation as a hobby. Validation isn't a sign of success, its just a desire for significance. You don't need to be significant to animate, you just need to do it. If you really want validation, keep posting your work on Youtube.

Working at your own pace, on your own ideas, exploring the craft your own way can be much more fulfilling a pursuit than doing it professionally. The day job is just that.......a job. At home, animation can be your passion, and with the internet as your showcase.......you don't need to toil in obscurity.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Thank you Ken

Ken I appreciate the response, you summed things up well, your words speak volumes about your experience in life as well as this field, and I completely agree that validation does not coincide with success. If you dont mind my asking how long have you been in the business? Have you ever had to work a dull job to get by and leave animation by the wayside for a period of time?

I would be happy to never be rich or even well known as long as I could do enough to be an professional animator and get by in life. When I was working last I loved it so much that I didn't even mind pulling a 12 hour day, getting 4 hours of sleep a night, and commuting back and forth to NYC from Long Island. The pay was terrible but I still felt rewarded, fulfilled, and happy. I suppose part of the reason I stopped looking for work after that and even drawing for a while was because I wanted some security and was tired of just getting gigs that were few and far between for pennies. Things have changed since, I am engaged to a wonderful girl, all of my friends are getting or already married, and it seems like the time to be securing a stable future, a house with a white fence and all that other fuzzy warm junk. I work a steady 8am-4pm job with benefits, and my colleagues are nice people, but its the nature of the work, the dull and mundane moments that seem to drone on, things like having to wear slacks, , tucking my shirt in, fighting to stay awake through a webinar taking about databases, not cursing by accident in front of children (I work at a school district) or making a dirty joke in front of old conservative people who wear suits and have no sense of humor, having to drive repeatedly all the way to a service call only to plug their computer back in because the user is so oblivious that they forgot they unplugged it. These things are slowly draining me and making me more miserable by the day. Being a computer tech has no room for creativity whatsoever and it is slowly making me lose my mind, but I guess I should consider myself lucky and count my blessings to even be employed these days.

I guess my current plan of action is to keep working on my own short film, resharpen my drawing with ALOT of life and gesture sketches and keep my ear out for any openings in the NY area, if all else fails I may consider moving to CA if there is a significant opportunity on the horizon. If anyone knows of any studio around here that is recruiting please let me know, thanks to all.

If you dont mind my asking how long have you been in the business? Have you ever had to work a dull job to get by and leave animation by the wayside for a period of time?

I've been in the animation biz since 1985, so 27 years.
In that time, I have had to do dull animation jobs, as not every project is top-drawer, but I've not had to take outside jobs from the field.
I have done a approx 10 year stint of teaching animation studies at art colleges in Western Canada--starting in 1998, I no longer teach--stepped away from it in 2006--and I stick by freelancing on storyboards and such from home, at present.

I would be happy to never be rich or even well known as long as I could do enough to be an professional animator and get by in life. When I was working last I loved it so much that I didn't even mind pulling a 12 hour day, getting 4 hours of sleep a night, and commuting back and forth to NYC from Long Island. The pay was terrible but I still felt rewarded, fulfilled, and happy. I suppose part of the reason I stopped looking for work after that and even drawing for a while was because I wanted some security and was tired of just getting gigs that were few and far between for pennies. Things have changed since, I am engaged to a wonderful girl, all of my friends are getting or already married, and it seems like the time to be securing a stable future, a house with a white fence and all that other fuzzy warm junk.

Those are obviously not things to abandon.

A number of my colleagues and former students have stood at that kind of fork in the life-road. Many of them choose to take different paths away from animation, even after having worked at it for a number of years, and with good success. Some stick with it, and endure the travails.

It comes down to your own personal thresholds. Emotional pain, financial pain, social pain........how much are you willing to endure for the time it'll take to gain the "success" of steady work in the field??

The old saw remains: if you do not give up, you cannot fail.
The test therein is to keep that in mind when you are "drowning" in the midst of trying to get work and juggling all the other considerations in life. That is why animation remains a truly elite profession, and why not everyone can do it.
In my own case, I just held on to the idea of being a cartoonist and never let go. It was almost a spiteful line of thinking, as I had parents, siblings and friends trying to dissuade me in my early adulthood--and try to steer me towards something sensible.
Well, sensible and me seldom ever got along, so I cagily did "my own thing": I'd go to the library for the day and draw instead of looking for a regular job, and proclaim I was simply having no success finding ordinary work. Eventually, I was introduced to real animators, and folks looking to start up their own studio. I was fortunate that I had just enough ( re: pathetic) drawing chops to be of use to them, and I broke in as an animation inbetweener.
I was awful, at the start. Inbetweening is basic enough that, with the drawing ability I had then, I didn't make a hash of things too badly.
I was fortunate again to have several mentors along the way who guided me, showed me the basic and tricks of the trade and whom I learned from, if only by osmosis.
I never went to school for this.......I learned everything on the job, so by being exposed to the right kinds of stuff....there was growth.
That is why I remain an advocate of the option of self-teaching.
That and perseverance-I simply never gave myself any other option

I work a steady 8am-4pm job with benefits, and my colleagues are nice people, but its the nature of the work, the dull and mundane moments that seem to drone on, things like having to wear slacks, , tucking my shirt in, fighting to stay awake through a webinar taking about databases, not cursing by accident in front of children (I work at a school district) or making a dirty joke in front of old conservative people who wear suits and have no sense of humor, having to drive repeatedly all the way to a service call only to plug their computer back in because the user is so oblivious that they forgot they unplugged it. These things are slowly draining me and making me more miserable by the day. Being a computer tech has no room for creativity whatsoever and it is slowly making me lose my mind, but I guess I should consider myself lucky and count my blessings to even be employed these days.

One can animate in their underoos, if they wish.
Or less.
And the client need never know.
Its not uncommon. It is said to be somewhat liberating. I can accept that.

Having work that deals with other people is draining, in all respects. When I was teaching.....it was especially so because there's that constant swirl of emotion and drive around you in the classroom.....at the end of the day, you are exhausted.
And there'd still be freelancing to do.

Managing this all comes down to how badly you want this. You have to look at your daily routine, your energy levels at key points of the day, the demands of the family at home.....and your passions. If any of the first three things take priority you won't have enough for the last thing. if you give into the first three things.........you don't want it badly enough.

I'm not saying to forsake family, friends, or job-place, but I am saying to mitigate them. Set aside time in the day, in the week when you animate/draw.
That is DO NOT DISTURB time--that has to be abided by. Family will not understand until it becomes routine. They'll want to interrupt you, they'll be curious about what you do. Tell them you love them(dearly) and then boot them out and lock the door.
You cannot grow unless you concentrate, and on the other side of concentration and growth is competence. That is the goal.
The only thing that should interrupt the concentration is some life-threatening emergency.
But, again, family will not understand.......and you'll have to explain what you are doing and why, so they do not feel abandoned. And you'll likely have to do this several times, depending on your family.
The intensity of your focus will determine your outcomes.

If all that sounds like too much of a sacrifice..........then it is.
Its a life that you may not be meant for. Not everyone is.
But if you have the right people around you, the passion and the drive, the innate stubbornness and refusal to give up.....and enough..........just enough clarity of mind to forge a path through the murk of life, then your choice is made.

And away you go.....

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Very sound advice, and it is much appreciated.

Thank you Ken, you seem to have a profound wisdom, which I had previously summed up to be a product of years in the industry as well life in general, and clearly that is the case. It would have been nice to of had a teacher such as yourself where I studied. I feel motivated having read your response and am grateful for your insight and candor.

The way you were introduced into the business is exactly the scenario I have been hoping for, finding a small studio that is starting up where someone would be kind enough to take me under their wing and I could hone my skills. Unfortunately at the moment I do not have any contacts in the local animation scene, I will try to work on networking by attending more festivals, or perhaps posting on meetup.com to find contacts. Did you at any point ever have to relocate to find work? If so how did it affect you relationship with your family? When you do find gigs are they through contacts or do you use the internet?

I will certainly never abandon my family, future wife, or friends, and I will tread lightly with any jobs that may present themselves, even if they present themselves as a steady source of income before abandoning my current post, as boring as it is. The only event that would invoke a move to California would be if Disney or another large studio offered me guaranteed long term employment, which I do not see happening in the foreseeable future, nor am I expecting to happen ever.

I would love to see some of your work if you wouldn't mind sharing it, and if at all possible I would like to keep an open dialogue if its not too much trouble. It would be an honor if you could critique my next short film once it is completed.

The way you were introduced into the business is exactly the scenario I have been hoping for, finding a small studio that is starting up where someone would be kind enough to take me under their wing and I could hone my skills. Unfortunately at the moment I do not have any contacts in the local animation scene, I will try to work on networking by attending more festivals, or perhaps posting on meetup.com to find contacts. Did you at any point ever have to relocate to find work? If so how did it affect you relationship with your family? When you do find gigs are they through contacts or do you use the internet?

Most of my work comes from contacts I've made in the biz via colleagues and studios I have worked with. Every once in a while I'll get a cold-call from someone on-line or via phone, whom I've never worked with before.....and they are usually referrals too.
I have relocated a couple of times, but for teaching work, and for my spouse's work. The thing is I've never actually relocated to another major animation centre. I started out in Vancouver, BC spent about 20 years of my career there, and then moved away for a couple of years to another province, and then moved BACK to BC, but to the rural centre of the province. I was freelancing long distance then and have maintained the kind of working relationship ever since.

I will certainly never abandon my family, future wife, or friends, and I will tread lightly with any jobs that may present themselves, even if they present themselves as a steady source of income before abandoning my current post, as boring as it is. The only event that would invoke a move to California would be if Disney or another large studio offered me guaranteed long term employment, which I do not see happening in the foreseeable future, nor am I expecting to happen ever.

I would love to see some of your work if you wouldn't mind sharing it, and if at all possible I would like to keep an open dialogue if its not too much trouble. It would be an honor if you could critique my next short film once it is completed.

Here is some of my work here on AWN:
http://forums.awn.com/showthread.php?t=6135&highlight=Davis

Working in California is tough......mostly because its a magnet for the very best. I have never worked there myself, but I have worked on many projects out-sourced from there. I've been told several times I could gain steady employment there quite easily. I'm reluctant to do so for several reasons: work visas, cost of living, cost of moving...etc.
For others, its a siren call too strong to resist and I have several colleagues that have done very well there. I think one really has to be Disney-calibre to get their foot in the door there, simply because the real serious talent all congregate there. There are a lot of different paths that lead to there though, so don't give up on the dream just yet.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Well done!

Love the work ken, especially the woman on the dinosaur. Great character design, I'm especially fond of the tree man. I'm not quite at your level yet but I will be working dilligently to get there. Ive been doing alot of life and gesture drawing using the site http://www.pixelovely.com/gesture/figuredrawing.php. Ive found tts a fantastic resource.I have some of my old work at
http://www.coroflot.com/gzaccaria . In the meantime I will strive to improve and be good enough to get my foot in the door somewhere. I appreciate your guidance and hope that if it wouldn't be a bother that you could critique some of my characters for my short film once the model sheets are completed. I wish you well. Happy drawing!

-John

I was sort of in a similar situation and my best advice is to start investing time in a 'serious' personal side project. For example, I was working a terrible job and freelancing on the side. After taking my 2 week vacation last year, I realized that even though freelancing was technically "doing animation for a living" I was still very much unfulfilled working on other people's terrible ideas and projects. I was never invested in all the projects I worked on and was just putting in the bare minimum effort to finish these jobs. So basically I was still doing animation but still miserable.

The conclusion I reached was to start working on my own projects and ideas with the same mindset I put into working my 9-5. I just started working on all the things I wished I could do while I was freelancing. So I quit freelancing almost completely and started using that free time to work on my own personal project (an animated web series). I am taking this project very seriously and I have fallen into a schedule where I am able to work on it between 10-20 hours a week. Although I've taken a significant paycut without all the freelancing, I figured that the effort I put into this project will be worth it in the long run. You never know, that project may be the thing that leads to bigger and better things down the road.

So I've been working on this thing since October of last year, and I've been able to experiment and learn so many things since I've started. I can't begin to tell you what an amazing experience it's been, it's like remembering how to fly or something.

But yeah, I still work the terrible full time job, but the feeling of "having my mojo back" makes it bearable.

http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design

Thanks assasin

I appreciate the insight, and being that you're in a very similar situation gives me comfort that I'm not alone out there. I am doing the very same thing, I'm currently going into production for my own web series idea and am very exited about it, Im currently in the process of finishing my script for the first episode and making model sheets which I have posted here
http://www.coroflot.com/GZaccaria/Character-Model-Sheets

I'm still gritting my teeth at the thought of waking up for the day job but having this project most certainly eases the burden. I'd love to see some of your work if you wouldn't mind dropping me the link. Thanks again, and I wish you all the best with your series.

Why not work as tech support at an animation studio? It's a great way to get your foot in the door, ask questions and it's usually a fun, busy environment. You could wrangle shots, help mind the render farm, etc.

IMO, it's all about setting yourself up for a great opportunity. That perfect job won't just appear. And studios look for stick-with-it type artists. Just because you weren't hired for one spot at one studio doesn't mean you won't get it on the next show.

Good luck and remind yourself in this economy any job is a good job.

Thanks b'ini

I appreciate the idea, you make a good point, and I had considered that, I guess doing tech work at a studio would be more fun than at a school district, but like you said, in this economy any job is a good job, and I don't think I want to risk losing the one I have to take that kind of chance, the studios around NYC are smaller operations, from what I gather about them it doesn't seem like they have a very large tech support staff, also I guess I'd rather someone take me for my creative skills from the get go, just the thought of having to learn the ropes for another type of help desk gig seems exhausting, I'm pretty much done with non-creative work, its making me depressed, not sure how much longer I can hold out before I just quit and go to the nearest busy street with a pad and easel and start doing caricatures of passerby's.

Please help!!!

Hello all. we'll have to leave my love of animation for another conversation, for right now, i am in a dire situation.

I am taking a college course in Communications and am in need of an interview with an established animator by Monday, July 16th. When i say established, i mean that has done any work in any animation project that i can trace. whether your name be in the credits or you created it entirely on your own.
I prefer the interview be conducted over the phone, but e-mail is very much an option.

i doubt that my professor will call to check up on my source if that is a problem for you.

PLEASE. i am in desperate need of this grade.
Thank you for reading

I'd love to see some of your work if you wouldn't mind dropping me the link. Thanks again, and I wish you all the best with your series.

No problem man. I'm still not finished with the first episode yet, but I have a bunch of progress stuff on the facebook page:

http://facebook.com/kerslash

http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design

Kerslash

Wow Ben, well done, you seem to be very versatile, your demo reel really showcases a great deal of variety, I really admire your character design skills, and Im looking forward to seeing more of the first episode from the web series. How long have you been working on it? I'm currently in the pre production phase of my first episde but I hope to get underway and start animating it within the next two months, I estimate that the script will time out to be about 10 minutes, which seems like an eternity of work, but I'm optimistic that once I get rolling I can have it done by spring of next year so that I can hopefully submit it to some festivals. Id love it if you would be able to give me feedback once I have some work to show for it. All I have at the moment is some first draft model sheets here.

http://www.coroflot.com/GZaccaria/Character-Model-Sheets

Thanks a lot man, I've been working on the first episode since October of last year. It's taken way longer than I thought it would, but I'm very satisfied with how it's coming along.

wow, 10 minutes is a lot. Unless you've completed large projects like that in the past, I would recommend cutting it down to make it as short as you can. I thought I could do 4 minutes in 2 months and it's taken me about 7(although one month of that was spent casting and waiting for recordings from voice actors).

I'd be happy to provide any feedback once you start working on the animation. Just hit me up: benolds01@yahoo.com

http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design

A personal

Hello!

I think that you are a man of courage .Any work all need to pay and hard work.
but i read that you said "I'm starting to lose my mind".I feel you may choose a better job .

No matter when it can't lost themselves, have confidence in yourself.

Come on !

Good luck and remind yourself in this economy any job is a good job.

Happy life can't apply colours to a drawing of the render farm !

I appreciate the feedback guys. Thanks Ben, I will definitely be sending you some of the work as it progresses, I know 10 minutes will probably take me forever and I may still trim it down, but Im going to go for very limited animation, adult swim style, with a few scenes that have action. The idea is mainly dialogue based, much like a raunchy sitcom. Please keep me updated with any new stuff you have as well, I'd love to check it out, giovanni.zaccaria@yahoo.com.

Don't be intimidated by a 10 minute runtime. It all depends on your style. Maybe ten minutes of Disney feature style would take forever, but ten minutes of Dragonball is a totally different story.

I have been doing this for a very long time. At different periods throughout my journey, I had to take day jobs to keep the fires burning. I worked in game studios like Rainbow Studios and EA, and VFX houses like Zoic. I even worked on SyFy Channel monster flicks. In all of this, I never gave up on my dream of creating my own animation.

There's no reason to assume your toil will never lead to anything but youtube views. My first short (real short anyway) led to the creation of my business and eventually a publishing deal with TOKYOPOP. It also led to lots of great relationships with hardware and software vendors (and thus lots of free tools) and lots of travel around the world to do lecturing and demos. This was all on account of my toil to get satisfaction where none was found in my soul crushing day job.

@Ken Davis: I really like your thinking!

This thread is one of the greatest I have read in my time here.