Search form

Art and Animation Schools

630 posts / 0 new
Last post
Take a look at Max the Mutt Animation School, Toronto.

I'm the Director of Max the Mutt Animation School, a Career College founded by artists and animators, located in Toronto. We now offer a 4 year diploma program in Animation and a separate 4 year program in Concept Art.. Our instructors are all working professionals, and our curriculum is well thought out. You can get lots of information from our website, www.maxthemutt.com, the attached blog, by calling and speaking to someone in admissions, visiting, and/or asking for contact with current and former students. This is a tough school with a heavy workload and a strong drawing and classical animation component.

I suggest that if possible you visit all the graduate exhibitions for the schools that interest you, and ask for contact with current and former students. Different schools are right for different people. You need to find the right fit for you.

Our mandate is to be affordable. our rate for international students is fair..I'm not sure, but I think tuition is now around $9000 to $10,000 a year. You can find it on the website. We do offer financial assistance, especially after year one.

Max the Mutt and Daemen College have signed an Articulation Agre

I'm very happy about this...

Max the Mutt Animation School (Toronto) and Daemen College(Amherst, New York) are happy to announce that they have signed an articulation agreement that may provide some Max the Mutt graduates with the opportunity to obtain advanced standing in Daemen College’s Bachelor of Fine Arts program, subject to meeting Daemen College’s requirements.

We will also be working with Daemen to develop workshops and curriculum initiatives that will benefit students at both schools.

You can find out more on our blog. Just go to the website, www.maxthemutt.com and click on "blog."

Kudos, next step, ivory towers.

Etsu??

can anyone tell me if the digital animation school at East Tennessee State University is a good choice for someone who wants to pursue a career in making cg movies for companies like pixar, dreamworks or sony???

Pixar wants to see classical animation as well a digital.

can anyone tell me if the digital animation school at East Tennessee State University is a good choice for someone who wants to pursue a career in making cg movies for companies like pixar, dreamworks or sony???

Well here is what Pixar wants in the job listed as "Animator" on their site:

Qualifications

- Degree or certificate in classical animation, film, or related field, or equivalent production animation experience
- Must have a DVD demo reel that demonstrates application of the principles of animation to tell a story with meaning through movement
- Ability to work collaboratively
- Must be open to direction and able to embrace change
- Proven storytelling skills
- Ability to use acting skills, which bring characters to life, as well as clearly communicate simple ideas with which an audience can empathize
- Strong understanding of traditional animation principles
- An art background, which shows a thorough, understanding of physical motion, weight, balance, texture, and form
- Computer animation experience preferred but not required

So now your job is just to check if the school you're going to, offers the above.. believe me no school can provide you all, so what your school give + what you bring to the table, must match the above job requirement.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

Hey, guys--I asked a question a couple pages back and now I've got another.

I just finished my Fine Arts undergrad in May and now I'm working, saving money, and deciding what my next step is. I've decided that I really need to go for animation because of my lifelong love of drawing, story-making, etc. and I feel I will deeply regret if I never did it.

It was pointed out to me that having a degree isn't crucial to breaking into the industry. But I think having the education is, which is why I believe my next step is heading back to school.

So now I'm wading through a list of schools and trying to find out what's best for me. There are some programs in Canada that look great, but tuition is so much more for a U.S. student like me. For many programs in the states, it looks like it would be like getting a second bachelors, which...ugh. I am still looking at and researching schools, though.

Would I be at a disadvantage if I received my training in only 2D animation? I am not averse to 3D, and even would like to learn it eventually, but I'm worried that the technical computer stuff would steal the joy for me as a new student of animation.

Hey, guys--I asked a question a couple pages back and now I've got another.

I just finished my Fine Arts undergrad in May and now I'm working, saving money, and deciding what my next step is. I've decided that I really need to go for animation because of my lifelong love of drawing, story-making, etc. and I feel I will deeply regret if I never did it.

It was pointed out to me that having a degree isn't crucial to breaking into the industry. But I think having the education is, which is why I believe my next step is heading back to school.

So now I'm wading through a list of schools and trying to find out what's best for me. There are some programs in Canada that look great, but tuition is so much more for a U.S. student like me. For many programs in the states, it looks like it would be like getting a second bachelors, which...ugh. I am still looking at and researching schools, though.

Would I be at a disadvantage if I received my training in only 2D animation? I am not averse to 3D, and even would like to learn it eventually, but I'm worried that the technical computer stuff would steal the joy for me as a new student of animation.

Hi Des--
What's your drawing ability like right now?

That is to say, how close are you to getting professional work with your skills right at this moment?
If you can quantify it as a percentage and its about 75% or less, then more schooling is not likely to help you.
Mine is the voice that has probably said that a degree isn't crucial, and I will reiterate that here.
If you cannot draw at a professional level, then a degree is MEANINGLESS, no matter what your grade is or or where you went to school for it.
If you already have a degree then a second one is just going to mean more pissing around and more expense on your part.

Would you be at a disadvantage if you knew only 2D?
In my opinion: NO.
2D isn't just about putting lines on paper. Its about creating appealing drawings, with life and expression AND all the various intuitive and technical aspects that make those images entertaining. I doubt there's very many schools that actually teach THAT stuff so you'll probably have to rely upon your own judgement. That being the case, 3D would simply be a procedural exercise, because if you cannot make a drawing appealing and entertaining in 2D you sure as heck are not going to achieve that in 3D.
That said, 3D is really just software, and you can probably learn the software for almost any specific need inside of about 6 months to get you to a functional level, IF you have the knack of 2D.

But let's not get mired in all that.
If you have a degree now, look at your abilities as they stand now.
Two degrees in the same sort of thing will not impress anyone ( except mom and dad or the relatives) so literally forget about the "paper pedigree".
Can you draw like Glen Keane? Or perhaps, say Alex Toth? And I mean seriously? Do you come close?
Can you get professional work with what you can do right now?
If yes, then you have all the credentials you need right now.
But if no............. then what is more schooling going to do that you cannot do or explore on your own??
You want to spend about $30,000 or so just to do more drawing? Make another student film?
Heck, you can do ALL the stuff you'd do in school--having already gone through school--very much on your own. Grab some paper, a pencil.....a camera to snap pics of the drawings, some software to process the animation.....for probably less than $1,500 you can everything you need to self-explore, and develop your skills to a professional level.

No feedback doing it on your own??
Well, if you want the most valuable skill you'll EVER develop (school isn't going to help you at all on this, no matter where you go or how much you pay) then develop the skill of self-evaluation.
Learn to compare your work to the professional work you admire. Learn to see what you lack and what you need to work on and you'll not need school any more.
Just because you go to school for it, doesn't mean you are automatically a good enough artist to do it professionally.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Thanks for the perspective, Ken. You're right--I don't actually want to take on more debt "just to do more drawing," but I also didn't seriously consider the possibility of teaching myself.

I don't think it's possible to get hired by a studio right now because I don't have a demo reel.

All I have is a freeware program with minimal features which I messed around with a couple walk cycles on a while back. If I'm going to teach myself animation, what software should I invest in?

Right now as my "teachers" I have Richard Williams ("Animator's Survival Kit") and Burne Hogarth ("Dynamic Anatomy" and "Dynamic Figure Drawing"). I have an eye for scale and proportion and can capture forms well in gesture. I wouldn't say I'm as good as Glen Keane but on the other hand I don't doubt I can get myself to a comparable level.

Not unlike many animators I showed natural drawing talent from a very young age. But I stopped developing it towards cartooning/animation early in my teens, when I somehow decided becoming an animator was just never going to happen (which I recognize now is because I just didn't know how to make it happen). The conviction came back after I started my undergrad, and now I have the time and the chance to pursue my dream.

So maybe I can teach myself the craft, but what about the industry know-how? I thought that would be one of the benefits to being under the guidance of industry professionals...

Thanks for the perspective, Ken. You're right--I don't actually want to take on more debt "just to do more drawing," but I also didn't seriously consider the possibility of teaching myself.

I don't think it's possible to get hired by a studio right now because I don't have a demo reel.

All I have is a freeware program with minimal features which I messed around with a couple walk cycles on a while back. If I'm going to teach myself animation, what software should I invest in?

Right now as my "teachers" I have Richard Williams ("Animator's Survival Kit") and Burne Hogarth ("Dynamic Anatomy" and "Dynamic Figure Drawing"). I have an eye for scale and proportion and can capture forms well in gesture. I wouldn't say I'm as good as Glen Keane but on the other hand I don't doubt I can get myself to a comparable level.

Not unlike many animators I showed natural drawing talent from a very young age. But I stopped developing it towards cartooning/animation early in my teens, when I somehow decided becoming an animator was just never going to happen (which I recognize now is because I just didn't know how to make it happen). The conviction came back after I started my undergrad, and now I have the time and the chance to pursue my dream.

So maybe I can teach myself the craft, but what about the industry know-how? I thought that would be one of the benefits to being under the guidance of industry professionals...

My opinion:
If you want a demo reel, you can make one yourself. Investigate the software that folks use ( Toonboom animation, Harmony, FLASH etc) and do the standard exercises: walk cycle, 4-legged walk cycle, head-rotation water droplet, flag waving etc.
BUT DON'T PUT THOSE ON YOUR REEL.
Use those exercises to get the proper feel for the process and timing of animation. Copy scenes from actual films ( again to figure out how the animators used timing and acting to tackle expressions and using space) to learn the nuances. Pick something that grabs you.........character or effects animation and study it meticulously. There's good books out there, the Richard Williams books for character animation, the Joe Gilland book for effect--and there's loads of tutorials and articles on-line on all manner of drawing and cartooning.

No, do not use that stuff for your reel--because literally ever other student out there does.
Frankly, no-one gives a shit about yet another walk-cycle, or head rotation.
Its says nothing, other than you can technically animate.
If you are going to do character animation, then show some CHARACTER. Put some personality into the stuff. Do a walk cycle? Make it a lively jaunty walk full of funny action and signature personality. Or do something creepy. Show that you can manage the important stuff--acting.
Effects animation, show that you can handle both realistic and stylized effects.try something different, like say, an atomic explosion......or a car ramming into a wall(and going to slo-mo on impact). Thin out of the box.
The other exercises are just that.......tests to see how you jump through the hoop. Take that one step more and APPLY IT to an idea, and put THAT on to your reel.

It doesn't have to be a student film per se, with a complete story and such, it just has to showcase what you can do.

I have seen a lot of reels.......and a lot of bad/boring ones. You can serve yourself well, by approaching it intelligently and with an eye towards your end-goal.

I've just handed you the beginning of a strategy that says you CAN indeed do this, from this point on, by yourself.
Industry know-how is really just being able to perform the tasks required on demand.
You know what they will do when they hire you? They will sit you down at a desk and say "animate this". Yeah...I'm simplifying things......slightly.
But they will expect that you CAN animate the material, so if you know the processes to accomplish a scene AND use the software to do so......well, you've got that part beat. Master those two stages.......make it three stages; have an appealing professional art ability, as well.

And what is THAT? Art ability? Y'know its really simple: its being able to draw ON MODEL. If you can pull that off.....animate, and use the software, then you have it made. To that end, fill your sketch books and art time drawing other people's shit. Figure out where you want to work and copy the work of the studios in that area. Love Disney? Do their kind of thing. Warners? Hanna Barbera/ Cartoon Network? etc etc etc.
If very doubtful you'll be paid to draw your own stuff....so save that effort for when you are just messing around. You'll be paid to draw other people's characters.
Feel free to futz around with some ideas. Take things that just haven't been done.....like , say....animate Iron Giant meeting Godzilla, or something. Buzz Lightyear versus Popeye. Then it becomes clear you are not just copying some scene from a DVD.

There's the ideas for a reel.
Check around the 'Net for folks that animate on their own and find out how they manage their set-ups. Often its a simple camera for line tests, and then various software tools to assemble frames and colour edit etc. It does NOT have to be fancy. Some clear line-tests on paper will work as good as something done on Harmony or Flash.
Again, you can do this sort of thing for maybe.....$2000 tops. You can order animation paper still ( Cartoon Colour), and peg bars and discs.....or you can find substitutes that can work just fine.

But......it all depends upon your own moxie. If you feel you can set up a strategy based on what and how you observe the industry demands to be, and your own resources to train yourself, then you can confidently say you don't need more schooling.
But, if you keep coming back to confusion, frustration and utter bewilderment, then more schooling is probably the safety-net that will work for you.

Good luck.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Animation Institute

MORPH is introducing Diploma in Advanced 3D animation and VFX, a highly focused course offering high-end animation training with specialization in 3D Animation and Visual Effects. Well researched and professionally designed to meet industry requirements. This program includes following Contents. www.morphacademy.com Sector 34 Chandigarh[URL=http://www.morphacademy.com/animation.html]

Fashion Designing Institute[/URL]

MORPH is introducing Diploma in Advanced 3D animation and VFX, a highly focused course offering high-end animation training with specialization in 3D Animation and Visual Effects. Well researched and professionally designed to meet industry requirements. This program includes following Contents. www.morphacademy.com Sector 34 Chandigarh[URL=http://www.morphacademy.com/animation.html]

Fashion Designing Institute[/URL]

pollokbrudy thanks for sharing i think it is in india.

The Animation Arena is getting a little complex of late. With the onset of Tintin, a new genre of acting animators have emerged. They animate through motion capture. If you're watched Tintin, you may accept that the results are actually good. For the last few years there have been skeptics who kept writing off the onset of technology as doomed to failure. However technology someday does come into it's own. The same happened with chess, and now beating the computer is an impossibility for all. And as French Artist cum Chess Player had mentioned that "All Artists may not be Chess Players but all Chess Players are Arts". It's not that the Motion Capture has replaced the artist, but moved the art of acting into the hands where it belongs - The Actors. This gives more room to Directors who were earlier constrained by the lack of editing in Animation. Well, this small lateral think is only for reference for those who can read blueprints and see the image. My suggestion is always to keep an eye on technology as the most powerful wave to ride is near the shores (the edge of the ocean).

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

The Animation Arena is getting a little complex of late. With the onset of Tintin, a new genre of acting animators have emerged. They animate through motion capture. If you're watched Tintin, you may accept that the results are actually good. For the last few years there have been skeptics who kept writing off the onset of technology as doomed to failure. However technology someday does come into it's own. The same happened with chess, and now beating the computer is an impossibility for all. And as French Artist cum Chess Player had mentioned that "All Artists may not be Chess Players but all Chess Players are Arts". It's not that the Motion Capture has replaced the artist, but moved the art of acting into the hands where it belongs - The Actors. This gives more room to Directors who were earlier constrained by the lack of editing in Animation. Well, this small lateral think is only for reference for those who can read blueprints and see the image. My suggestion is always to keep an eye on technology as the most powerful wave to ride is near the shores (the edge of the ocean).

i am totally agree with you virtualciti after watching the movie tintin

is Savannah College of Art and Design a really good school for a future animator?

We are always learning

Puppeteers!

For me Tin Tin represents a new trend toward "Puppeteers" not animators... schools of thought that stress mostly technology and not artistry. Mocrap is meant to be a guide not a crutch.

Tin Tin was not nominated for a Oscar - probably a backlash from ther folks who would like to see the artform thrive and develop in an artistic direction... A CAT IN PARIS being a recent example of artistry.

As far as SCAD goes - I will just say... look long and hard at the program before you commit. Look at the folks teaching there and the curriculum not just the facilty... as you should with any school.

Thanks

I enjoyed Tintin, and I guess the end result matters. And if the end result is achieved using new technology, then it could be a sign of times to come. I am no one to claim guarantee of things about to happen, since 3D (with goggles) has been around for a long time, but arrived only recently. It's only a view for prospective animators to keep in mind.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

What do you know about RIT, USC, UCLA

I rarely see anything mentioned about RIT, USC, UCLA, and SCAD

My take, based on looking at these from a MFA viewpoint, is that RIT has a very decent program but is very new. Thus, they don't have the industry traction yet.

USC has a LOT of money behind it and a lot of industry connections. The program seems fine IF you already have strong 3d skills and strong drawing skills and want to hone other skills. I am not sure I would recommend USC if a student doesn't have strong experience in animation despite that they say that the program can develop anyone even without an animation background. They do seem to strongly emphasize story boarding, acting, layout and other traditional work,which I think is a good thing.

Same for UCLA, although the UCLA workshops seem a bit more technically focused..

SCAD seems quite good and technical and similar to RIT. However, SCAD breaks down their program between sequential art, sound design and 3d, whereas RIT tries to incorporate all of this into one program. I also didn't get warm furries from Savannah,but I did like SCAD's Atlanta location.

Anyone have any further information on this or a different take?

More Info

My advice to any one going to SCAD is to do a DOUBLE Major in Sequential and Computer Animation. This way you get the art and tech. I left SCAD when they took drawing out of the core curriculum and made it an effective. I don't know any really good program that does include concentrated drawing.

I still teach- at a school in the Orlando area, but I am not here to tout my school (as some others area0.

I just want folks to get a good education.

I know Glenn Vilppu, he teaches on the masters program @ UCLA in Life Drawing. I will ask him about their animation Masters program. Glenn is one of the premiere drawing instructors.

USC is known for live-action not animation.

RIT was jumped started by Nancy Beiman - but she is @ Sheridan in Toronto now. An excellent teacher and tough - she doesn't take BS.

Where does that leave RIT now?

If NancyBeimen jump started RIT but left, where does that leave RIT now?

Also, I called USC. Their biggest division is actually animation. They admit that they take a "Calarts" approach since most instructors went to Calarts. Don't know if this is good or bad.

Maac

Maya Academy of Advanced Cinematics
www.maacindia.com

The CalArts approach is good

If USC is taking a CalArts approach - that is good! CalArts has been one of the best animation schools - forever. Hopefully, USC will require the same high level of artistry to gain admittance.

Other schools just require a bank account.

I am hoping some of those schools in India require higher standards. I was suppose to teach there a few years back - and I just got the impression it was - how many can we pack into the course.

Thanks.

I think you will see packed classes

I think that teaching in India will be a VERY eye opening and educational for you. However, I would bet that the classes will be packed.

However, I think it will be one of those life changing experiences for you. Be advised, the poverty there is rampant. You will see many people living in tents on the street right next to five star, opulant hotels.

I am hoping some of those schools in India require higher standards. I was suppose to teach there a few years back - and I just got the impression it was - how many can we pack into the course. Thanks.

Sure India does require more people who are experts in their field because it has been a little late in using animation to tell their stories. It does take time just like in China when it started manufacturing toys and electronics, when people talked of standards. However today most of your cameras, TVs and toys are manufactured in China by the same people.

However, if you're interested in teaching in India, typically you can expect to maintain a higher than US standard of living at a lower than US remuneration. So, you must be ready to adjust in those terms. The paying capacity of the normal Indian Institute is blunted by the fact that a lot of the paying students do move to Canadian Institutes. So it would be impossible for an Institute to fund an expert on a long term basis except for maybe a Government supported Institute. Alternatively you can look at an Exchange Program. If I remember correctly we did have a discussion on this subject when you wanted to come to India for a few months.

And I am not sure about the impression you got, and how you got it.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

My Expereince

My experience with one school in India was very eye-opening. This particular academy had a agreement with an American College. The academy would pay the American school for each student that attended their college-level course. The American school was providing the curruculum and a liasion and other materials needed to complete the course.

The Indian academy was a business pure and simple! They even used pictures of the American college and it's studios/facilities on their web site to promote their course.

They wanted me to teach one college class and several others at the high school level. Why? because they only had to pay a fee to the American College for every college level student.

They never met when they said they would - most calls were returned at least two weeks later... sometimes never.

We decided Thanksgiving Day, two years ago to turn down their final offer - the next day, terrorists hit Mumbai and a few months later a German bakery frequented by Westerners in Puna was bombed.

A former student, who works for Disney was in the hotel up until the day before the attack in Mumbai.

As far as payment goes, Europe has always paid well for Americans. Aisia not so well. Yes, you can live there for less - and live very well - if you don't have bills back here to pay and or a mortgage.

BTW the American college has ceased it's agreement with the Indian academy.

Thanks

My experience with one school in India was very eye-opening. This particular academy had a agreement with an American College. The academy would pay the American school for each student that attended their college-level course. The American school was providing the curruculum and a liasion and other materials needed to complete the course.

The Indian academy was a business pure and simple! They even used pictures of the American college and it's studios/facilities on their web site to promote their course.

They wanted me to teach one college class and several others at the high school level. Why? because they only had to pay a fee to the American College for every college level student.

They never met when they said they would - most calls were returned at least two weeks later... sometimes never.

We decided Thanksgiving Day, two years ago to turn down their final offer - the next day, terrorists hit Mumbai and a few months later a German bakery frequented by Westerners in Puna was bombed.

A former student, who works for Disney was in the hotel up until the day before the attack in Mumbai.

As far as payment goes, Europe has always paid well for Americans. Aisia not so well. Yes, you can live there for less - and live very well - if you don't have bills back here to pay and or a mortgage.

BTW the American college has ceased it's agreement with the Indian academy.

Thanks

I have a similar story.
A well-known school I know of was approached to set up a satellite training school in India, using the school's curriculum as the basis for the programmes there. The negotiations and plans were going forward and the assumption was that everything was going smoothly. The plan was to literally put the western school's name up in lights, and laud their presence and reputation all over India.

Then the school sent over the curriculum materials for the parties in India to look over.

The very next day, the parties in India broke off the deal.

They'd gotten what they REALLY wanted, the curriculum, after all.........why proceed any further with partners they no longer needed?
Oh yes, that was an eye-opening event, to be sure.

Its called being suckered, or hood-winked.

In North America, such conduct is considered fraud, even industrial espionage--and unfortunately, the Indian judicial system doesn't facilitate prosecution or even litigation against such perpetrators, certainly not at a modest corporate level as would be found an animation school. A curriculum is proprietary information, of great monetary value because of the guide-lines it contains. Its like having blueprints to a spaceship that anyone can build......everyone would love to take a crack at it because its all laid out in front of them then.
I've written up two complete curriculum in my career and I've learned (the hard way) to withhold those documents until actual dollars are placed into my hands.

Sure they had acquired the curriculum, but in the idiocy of their swindle and theft, they failed to realized they had forsaken the expertise of the instructors, some of whom would have transplanted to teach the material in India. A story I heard was that someone from that group over there even had the gall to phone the school a couple of months later and ask about some of the jargon used in some of the lesson plans. The gist of the story was that the response was laden with expletives.
Golly, but I guess that , had they remained honest, they could have gained experts that could teach the material backwards and forwards......but instead they cut the cord too soon and had to go it on their own. I'm not betraying any scorn when I say I hope they taught a lot of it wrong. it would serve them right.

This was some years ago, and I understand that the material that was sent over has been dispersed and used by various splinter parties in many other similar school businesses over there, since that time. I understand that in each time, its either been stolen or sold over and over again.
Its why one doesn't see a whole lot of western schools involved in the animation education system over there.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

@Larry and @Davis, seems like you really had bad experiences with your first contacts with India. That also explains why @Davis why you're always mentioning legal stuff. In fact, I was talking to Larry a few years ago to come to India, however, I was unable to afford an expert of that level. I don't hold it against him since I respect the fact that he is worth much more, and I am unable to afford him. I am still open to experts who would like to take a sabbatical and experience India. We are presently working on a movie pitch with home grown talent. We rely on experts like Nicolaides, Richard Williams, John Canemaker, Walt Stanchfield, Scott Davis, Frank n Ollie, Tony White, Peter Lord, Nancy Beiman, Mike Wellins and of course Paul Wells to guide us through their writings (and more people keep joining us). We also engage Professional Animation Trainers for small workshops sessions. I understand that there are no free lunches at least not the way Steve Wozniak enjoyed when engineers at Xerox shared their knowledge with him so that the world's first GUI was born. I had joined AWN years ago, but I guess forums have kind of ceased to be places where knowledge got exchanged. Maybe hackers are fairer in terms of sharing their knowledge. But them that's how the world is now. My visits to AWN have now got rare since even the content is more of less the same. Do you know of any vibrant community in Animation?

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

A reply

So Virtualciti, the schools don't have the money for REAL instruction or to be guided by these people in person... so the schools read books and then turn around and charge students for their instructors expertise. Wow, thats amazing.

The difference between your country and mine is that most of the time the real people you mentioned can be accessed and brought in for lectures - or can be found in schools. Our country does't mind paying for expertise - your country does. Not a slam - just the facts.

At Art Center College of Design - I had access to Ward Kimball and Chuck Jones. My college paid them to have them there for the students. The college understood how important education was and what expertise these folks had to offer.

From 2001 to 2006, I had a teaching gig in Germany for three weeks a year. It was amazing. The course brought in top level industry pros to teach one or two weeks at a time. The other instructors included folks like Michael Dudok DeWitt, Jimmy Murikami and Marec Fitzinger (and others - and yours truly). The school was invested in teaching the students to be industry pros - as was our school in Ireland. They didn't ind paying for expertise.

Every single student that came out of both programs have jobs.

The investment by the school was worth it... the students were worth it.

Again, not a slam, but different countries... different approaches...

Just saying.....

So Virtualciti, the schools don't have the money for REAL instruction or to be guided by these people in person... so the schools read books and then turn around and charge students for their instructors expertise. Wow, thats amazing.

The difference between your country and mine is that most of the time the real people you mentioned can be accessed and brought in for lectures - or can be found in schools. Our country does't mind paying for expertise - your country does. Not a slam - just the facts.

Don't get me wrong. Surely at least the progressive colleges here don't mind paying. But again it depends on their pockets. Like in our city we've had experts in Animation over for about 2 weeks a year. I even spoke to Ed Hooks when he was in India last year, however, he couldn't travel to north India since apart from me he couldn't land any other offer in north india, so he visited west india and left with a promise to visit us the next time. We spoke to Max Howard too, however, he was caught up with ASIFA in Mumbai to spare time. This doesn't mean that we can afford all experts though we'd love to. We understand that the gap after this has to be filled with learning from the books. I don't think that learning from books has any issue at all - that's the way Indian software industry grew up. Rest is upto the learner's passion. A book in the hands of a dispassionate reader is not even worth the paper it's printed on. My son is 14 years old and is learning games development through books. Walt Disney learnt Civil Engineering through books. So, please do not devalue learning through books. They remain the most trusted source of information and knowledge. In fact an author rechecks his facts while writing - much more than a speaker. Yes, you're surely lucky to interact with Chuck Jones and Ward Kimball - lucky that your college could afford them. In fact, I like the fact that Ken in AWN is also a fan of self-learning.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

Dude, I'm not a book burner

Virtualciti,

Dude, I'm not a book burner! Books can be great sources for information. That said, should someone pay top dollar or should a government give money, grants, etc. to schools whose primary sources have been books - it could be in the unethical area.

If your 14 year can obtain info out of a book alone, do they need to pay a school or go to a school.

Thanks

We have also had unfortunate experiences when approached by schools in India. My biggest criticism is simply a lack of professional courtesy. From what I've read here, we should consider ourselves fortunate not to have gone forward with the proposed deals we were approached with.

It's sounds like it's the wild west out there.

Virtualciti,

Dude, I'm not a book burner! Books can be great sources for information. That said, should someone pay top dollar or should a government give money, grants, etc. to schools whose primary sources have been books - it could be in the unethical area.

If your 14 year can obtain info out of a book alone, do they need to pay a school or go to a school.

Thanks

Let me put it this way. Books are the best sources of knowledge and information. They are more unbiased in their views like you and me (read the comments above and below this). Surely, there are people who cannot learn from books, like you mentioned, though they are not book burners, but they surely must be taught. People who read well and are driven need not be taught since they learn.

Finally, please don't distort my views to make them seem as if unlearned people are teaching, and the belief that possession of knowledge is a regional issue is far fetched. Learning is and will always be independent of Teaching. When I have to learn about Christianity I would prefer to read Bible than meet a Preacher.

Please don't form prejudices about Indian Government investing in Private Animation Schools. Most of them would be unfunded and have to pay their rent as well as their taxes from the fees.

You're very correct about the 14 year old. He's right in chasing his dreams in his own ways, and not prejudicing his views by visiting forums which speak otherwise. I learnt my chess through books and he too followed that approach and plays in school nationals, Lucky for me (since I've not prompted him to adopt this approach), he believes in books and doesn't feel the need to go to a school. Gandhi didn't send his sons to school for the same reason.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

Hello again

I agree with just about everything you write.

Keep in mind, writers have opinions, too.

Richard Williams has a very definite approach to his writing and his animation.

For instance, he doesn't like animators listrening to music while thery work - a hold over from Milt Kahl's opinions. He like to animate "staggers" to me it seems confining, I animate straight a head and shoot the stagger. I know someone else (you mentioned in your post) who doesn't agree with the way Richard's X sheets are done - so they have their students "correct" them.

Opinions are everywhere! That's okay.

It is thought provoking to have this discourse - I sure it will assist some folks out there.

Thanks.

I agree with just about everything you write.

Keep in mind, writers have opinions, too.

Richard Williams has a very definite approach to his writing and his animation.

For instance, he doesn't like animators listrening to music while thery work - a hold over from Milt Kahl's opinions. He like to animate "staggers" to me it seems confining, I animate straight a head and shoot the stagger. I know someone else (you mentioned in your post) who doesn't agree with the way Richard's X sheets are done - so they have their students "correct" them.

Opinions are everywhere! That's okay.

It is thought provoking to have this discourse - I sure it will assist some folks out there.

Thanks.

It all sounds to me like there is not one right way to get the work done.

One of the perks

I consider listening to music one of the perks of doing animation!:D

I consider listening to music one of the perks of doing animation!:D

Haha!

Sure Music is one of the major points of disagreement between animators even here. So the world is round anyway!

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

It all sounds to me like there is not one right way to get the work done.

Exactly true of creative arts. It is not like science where there is usually one correct answer. So obviously sometimes this leads to emotions when someone makes a statement that looks like an answer :-)

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

Anyone familiar with RIT's 3d and 2d program

My daughter just got admitted to the MFA program at Rochester Institute of Technology. She even got a 9K scholarship plus some other possible scholarships. However, I don't usually see RIT mentioned in forums. Anyone familar with their program and/or current faculty?

Huh? Don't know anyone there.

Hello. I checked the RIT faculty page for film and animation. Did NOT find anyone I know.

There are several folks who work there that are RIT grads - that can be good and bad. It could be a small gene pool kind of thing.

Check with them on who has real "industry experience" and recent industry experience.

I teach but I still animate, direct and make films.

Do some research - google the faculty.

Thanks.

I agree with just about everything you write.

Keep in mind, writers have opinions, too.

Richard Williams has a very definite approach to his writing and his animation.

For instance, he doesn't like animators listrening to music while thery work - a hold over from Milt Kahl's opinions. He like to animate "staggers" to me it seems confining, I animate straight a head and shoot the stagger. I know someone else (you mentioned in your post) who doesn't agree with the way Richard's X sheets are done - so they have their students "correct" them.

Opinions are everywhere! That's okay.

It is thought provoking to have this discourse - I sure it will assist some folks out there.

Thanks.

I agree writers have an opinion too. However, my point was only that since their opinion is going to be discussed threadbare they would tend to be more careful. Anyway, the entire point of this discussion was that it generates some ideas for new entrants. And also for people not to stop on their plans with a country based on a few mis-hits. We all understand that conceit is not an acceptable trait anywhere. Only concern is that it cannot be an excuse for country bashing or regionlizing an issue.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

I agree with just about everything you write.

Keep in mind, writers have opinions, too.

Richard Williams has a very definite approach to his writing and his animation.

For instance, he doesn't like animators listrening to music while thery work - a hold over from Milt Kahl's opinions. He like to animate "staggers" to me it seems confining, I animate straight a head and shoot the stagger. I know someone else (you mentioned in your post) who doesn't agree with the way Richard's X sheets are done - so they have their students "correct" them.

Opinions are everywhere! That's okay.

It is thought provoking to have this discourse - I sure it will assist some folks out there.

Thanks.

The bit about the music is something I've actually found to be true for me. However, that's only animating. When I'm cleaning, inbetweening, tweaking and plussing material I can listen to all manners of things - preferably music or audio books.

I've found Eric Goldberg's Character Animation Crash Course to be a rather good and instructive read. Although he brings few things to the market Williams hasn't covered (often a lot more exhaustively), he's easier to read because his book has more structure (chapters and a glossary), is shorter and his discourses are fewer and not quite as diffuse as Williams'.
While Williams' book is still indispensable, reading Goldberg made some things from Williams' book finally click in my mind simply because Goldberg explained them more to the point. (Like the use of breakdowns to structure animation and apply principles, now it's all so forehead-slappingly clear!)

However - true understanding lies in execution. I find it to be one of the greatest joys to fine-tune others' methods to one's own work flow and discover more and new possibilities.

PS: I trademarked the word forehead-slappingly. You can't use it without paying me 50¢.

The bit about the music is something I've actually found to be true for me. However, that's only animating. When I'm cleaning, inbetweening, tweaking and plussing material I can listen to all manners of things - preferably music or audio books.

Actually for me it seems that it boils down to the fact that music interferes with anything which involves decision making. Anything that uses your skills (or drudgery work) can bear music and even be relaxing.

http://www.3danimationtrainingstudio.com I still have not told my story! - Vineet Raj Kapoor

To Larry L or anyone else

Do you know about the MFA program at either School of Visual Arts and/or UCLA?Do you know anything about their faculty?

taxguy

Hello Taxguy!

My sense of those schools is I don't know who is there. I have to do some research. SVA, or UCLA can be up or down depending on who is there. I have heard differing opinions at different times.

Thanks.

Are there any schools that have animation, but are normal colleges too? When I say normal I mean colleges that are not just an art school or a film school, like I know that Northeastern and Depaul do.

Jndonatti asks,"Are there any schools that have animation, but are normal colleges too? When I say normal I mean colleges that are not just an art school or a film school, like I know that Northeastern and Depaul do. "

Answer: Yes there are. Here is a list in no specific order

* Rochester Institute of Technology
* UCLA
* USC
* Drexel University
* San Josa State University
* University of Central Florida
* Brigham Young University.

Good List and...

Good list and...

From I hear and what I know, I would rank BYU as the best of that lot...

However......

I don't know if BYU is the best of the lot,but you will have to put up with a LOT of rules at BYU that you may not like. Check out their rules before you apply.

So many animation schools here.
But I don't know which one to choose,and what characters should I take into account?:confused:

Pages