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Animation that's not funny

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Animation that's not funny

I want to get you guy's opinion on something, that is if this forum isn't completely dead :p

Anyway, I hear/read time and time again, that it is story that makes a good film; no exception. Even though Catmull has gone on record to say that this is a dangerous assertion, it still something of a mantra.

But, every American cg film I've seen, the story in and of itself never goes beyond a family comedy. I realize that making movies is serious business, money has to be made, merchandising must exist, marketing must be all encompassing, but it just seems that the story never goes beyond that; despite the focus on the story.

I guess my question is: is there a place for an animation story that is not a comedy? Where there is no happy ending? Where things aren't just? I ask, mainly because I've been kicking around some ideas to build some animation exercises off and I agree with the statement that even a simple animation exercise should have some sort of characterization; an emotional appeal. The idea I've been thinking of though, is not very "Disney" I guess.

If you are talking about North American animation, there's very little market for features that are not comedies. The reason why is most audiences have shown little interest in other kinds of stories.
Since that kind of interest translates into dollars spent, why would anyone invest into making animated films that are not comedies?
Its circular logic, but that's the way it is.
If you want material that swings outside of that, stick with direct-to-DVD--like the DC or Marvel superhero features.
Otherwise, the real question is: how do you change public perception of what animation is?

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Ken is right, the art animation or animation with serious story line just do not have the box office draw. I love the shorts and the off road features that are serious but if you check the box office numbers they are always super low.

Oh and for this forums activity level, there are a lot of people reading these post so that counts for a lot. I try to post items of interest to all and if a debate is sparked then good.

You mean the Marvel Sets from the 60s? Are there really no "serious" features that have done well?

I went through all of annecy's 100 top animated short films, and man that's some of the best animation I've ever seen. Stuff like Street of Crocodile, Father and Daughter, and even Harpya (as scary as it is).

So, if one wants to do stuff that's not purely a wacky comedic adventure that's fun for the whole family, one would have to accept economic failure? Was this why the Black Cauldron didn't so well?

More contemporary, I like the stuff that Don Hertzfeldt does. I guess this means it would have to be independently done, if ever?

What about "9"? All CG, dark moments, good reviews. May not have been a blockbuster but it made some money (at least it didn't lose money) and had an original concept.

And Foreign films like "Waltz with Bashir" and "Persepolis" have done well here so I think there **is** an audience for "serious" non-Disney types of film.

Stop motion seems to do well with American audiences especially if they're on the dark side. "Coraline", "Corpse Bride", & of course "Nightmare b/f Christmas". You could add "Alice in Wonderland" to the mix as so much of that was CG. (I guess the main ingredient in this mix is Tim Burton)

And "Fantastic Mr. Fox" was really fantastic - even though it was a comedy - it wasn't your typical fare. Even though it was made in England it was a Fox production with an American director.

So, keep the faith and get your idea out there.

OH!! and don't forget Miyazaki's films are brought to the US by Disney and they're not Disneyesque.

Ha! Yup, I was going to say maybe US audiences just like Tim Burton :D

You're right though, just gotta get the idea out there and see what sticks. Also, don't get me wrong, I don't want to do serious for serious' sake. I've just been watching top imbd films and thinking of ideas and I started wondering why animation seems so..."bush league" compared to the live action medium, and if it would even be possible to break away from that, given the initial mainstream bias, arghhh :eek:

Good point with Miyazaki, and I guess anime in general does have that "edginess" to it, but that still feels like something of a genre; I guess it is all about markets :(

Just a fun quote from a very funny writer that seems to fit this discussion.

"Your last project was actually both commercially viable and original. Unfortunately the part that was commercially viable was not original, and the part that was original was not commercially viable."

serious animation

the movies that were mentioned before as being dark, like Nightmare before christmas, corpse bride, etc. are not that dark, I guess you need to define "serious" do you mean that the character dies in the end, or that there's violence, or that it has more adult themes, or that it doesn't have any disney princess in it? I think that there is a growing market for atypical animated features like Fantastic Mr Fox and coraline, but I think there's very few commercially successful animated movies that ended badly or were down right depressing, like Deep Blue (R.I.P Satoshi Kon)

there is an international market. where you can find life for your works. beyond north america. why keep focusing on an audience that has no interest in subject matter that isnt comedy based.

There are always two ways...

Hello guys. Long time no posting :D
Regarding this subject I believe it’s partially because of the idea audiences have about animation. Many people immediately think on child entertainment when they hear the word ANIMATION. This may apply mostly to US audience but it occurs in Europe too. The idea of an animated feature film that it’s not a comedy sounds weird to them. Also, if it is not a comedy, no way they will bring their toddlers to theatres, which means a box office shortening.
But there is also the merchandising issue, which is paramount. Of course they will sell a million back packs with Nemo or Lightning McQueen on display. But would they sell as much if they’d show an image from “Waltz with Bashir”? What about video games? T-shirts? You name it…
I think all this things are taken under consideration when an American studio thinks about making an animation motion picture. They are a well oiled machine of making money. Fortunately they do some amazing animation pictures, too.
Also, they don’t have the financial support some European studios have, via TV channels and National Film Institutes. We are talking about two different ways of animation funding, which reflects on different kind of animation releases. I’m glad both of them provides us with excellent animation.

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there is a place where adult animation thrives and is expected. at some point most of you have run across it

From down under, may I recommend the marvellously dark "Mary and Max". The creator, Adam Elliott, you may remember from his Oscar-winning short "Harvie Krumpet". It's not fine animation in the Disney tradition, but it's lovely to look at, and it's got a great story about the most unlikely of friends, and it's definitely not one for the under-15s or the delicate of constitution :D

Here from Europe we could propose another film to the list of "Serious" - "Not for kids" - "Not comedy" list:

"Chico and Rita"
The total budget for this film was 10M€ ~ 13.2M$US

"Brendan and the secret of Kells"
Total Budget 5.3M€ ~ 7M$US

As mentioned by carpediem, the merchandising is not as big as for "Nemo" or the like, but there is a market after all. Artwork, the Graphic Novel, sound tracks and such... but with budgets less than 15M$US the need for merchandising is not so big as with 100M$US budgets... (hence the mentioning of the budgets above).

In Europe the tradition for Graphic Novels (not to use the name comic book) is very outspoken in some countries and much less in others. In France for example the citizens proud them selves having meters and meters of Graphic Novels putting them at display in the most prominent of places in the living room, where as in Denmark... IF you would happen to have some you would make sure to hide them behind the plants in the corner in the living room.

That is the same for animation. The public in France and Belgium is much more accustomed to the "Serious animation" than in many other countries. Luckily that fosters such films as "The Triplettes de Belleville" (Belleville Rendevous), the two mentioned above and now also "The Illusionist" (and luckily many others too).

And as for Persepolis and "Waltz with Bashir"... brilliant, but don't bring your young children. And Max and Mary too.

As for the comment of carpe diem about the financial backing for some European studios. Co-produce with an European studio or two, you can get part of that financing as well! Of course there is no such thing as a free meal (not for European studios either), but that might be the thing you need to get your story/production financed. Check that out with the European Animation organisation http://www.cartoon-media.be/ (Example, if you co-produce in Belgium the Film Board will support the production with up to 50% of the budget placed in Belgium. The Hungarians will support ~10% for the work you put there, and that deal does most of the time not involve letting go of any creative decisions.)

What is better, putting 30% of the budget in Europe and running 70% in your home country, or not getting financed at all (meaning 0% in your home country)... That is another discussion too...

As for the problems of producing in different timezones thousands of kilometers away, there are good solutions for that too. It can also be an advantage, now you can animate 24 hours around the clock if you do it in US, Europe and Asia... but that is also another story...

To finish, the wonderful movies from the hand of Mr. Miyazaki are really something in a category all by them selves...

And of course, as carpediem says, there is no reason for not ALSO enjoying the films that comes out of the big studios too :-)

HC

HoBSoft Automated animation workflow for feature and tv-series

That´s it!

Yes! Hc nailed it with facts and figures. But although European viewers are more used to watch adult animation than American viewers, I don’t’ think it’s correct to say they are a more mature audience. I believe American viewers who really appreciate good animation are as eager and have as much interest in a more adult perspective in animation (American and worldwide) as Europeans. Maybe it’s a distribution problem. :cool:
Happy new year everybody… :D

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I see it as more of a courage problem. american animators have to create a path where there is none. and do what todd mcfarlene did with spawn. which went completely agaist the grain of what was accepted, in comic books. ridicule and being labeled as adult content or two of the biggest hurdles for american animators

Ha, thanks for the replies guys.

I think I used the word "dark" without really knowing what I even meant by it. I just meant, animation that's not characterized by what Carpediem said. It's not that the movie has to be entirely serious, I mean "For every laugh, a tear" amirite? Just, animation that touches on other genres than mainly a fantastic comedy, but I guess then one might as well just shoot it live-action :confused:

@HCJEHG,

Thanks for that small insight into European culture. I was lucky enough to hear Bill Plympton speak a couple of years ago at a festival event in my town and he said his shorts actually do remarkably well in Europe; better than USA actually.

And yes, happy new year AWN :D