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Making it

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could answer a couple of questions I had. I have done a bit of research, but in the end, I can't find any concrete answers (maybe because there aren't any).

But if there are, here they are:

Is it possible to become an animator without an expensive private school?

I was actually admitted into a pretty good animation school, but it was insanely expensive that creditors wouldn't even allow me to take out that much. I am currently at a junior college pursuing a computer animation major which should really just be called a degree in maya.

I am learning actual animation by myself, reading the general books (illusion of life, cartoon animation, etc) as well as subscribed to animation magazine, and listening to podcasts like animation podcast for some inspiration and of course sketching every day.

I am no where near being able to send out a demo reel to anyone, but when and if I am, I was wondering what would be my options as far as getting something to do with animation?

I was looking at disney's training program which I heard about from some of these podcasts I was listening to where they had Eric Larson teaching these newcomers. In which you really just needed to have good drawing skills.

Nowadays, correct me if I'm wrong, knowing a thing or two about animation is needed. Heck you got kids coming out of Calarts who go into these training programs, and...well...they're from Calarts, they've been learning this intensely for four years.

So, how realistic is it to get into one of these training programs? I'm not so delusional to think I can get into disney, but...what about smaller studios? Would you guys recommend moving to California, with a map of animation studio on hand? and asking about internships? or maybe calling them?

I don't know, but it just seems like the only way to get into the industry is going to one of these private schools. I know, I listened to Ralph Bakshi's discussion at comicon, but...it's insanely hard to find those three guys who want to start up their own studio, or just make some mickey-mouse, bush league animation. It seems those guys want to go to one of these expensive schools and graduate into a position at disney or pixar.

Any comment is appreciated, I'm just lost. My plan right now, if nothing comes up (like some divine call from an animation studio) is to just attend UCF's (a state school) animation program. Since I got pretty good grades, it would be free, and it would allow me to apply to some of these internships that require a four-year degree in animation or film. So, that's my plan.

But, I'd like to start as soon as possible. From multiple readings and interviews, it seems actual practice and mentoring is the best way.

Thanks.

Same boat

Start reading the archived forums in the Animation Cafe. There are answers to your questions, some are very honest and well thought out. I'd be surprised if you get any new answers, but hey, I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.

I'm responding is because I'm doing the junior college thing too. It can be frustrating, not seeing the kind of results that you see from your peers with more experience and those from more expensive schools. Its the decision I've made due to well......life. Let's just say, I'm going have to make the best of it.

Its funny, I remember the days of asking my teachers for help and them not giving answers, just reference me to my Richard Williams book. Lectures? Critiques? Who needs those? One teacher told me that animation can't really be taught. Hmmm... I will say, that the facility has lovely equipment and lots of bright lights.

There was ONE, teacher that sat with me and told me that I was good. Talked to me for awhile, actaully. This person might have been lying, it doesn't matter. That was months ago and the words still resound loudly in my head. He was optimistic about the industry of cartooning as a whole, not just animating. This brought confront to my ears.

So, I leave you with this: I think the most valuable lessons I've learned are: 1. Take interest in other classes, painting, life drawing, ect. 2. Slowly read and reread exercises and then spend time to practice, practice, and practice. 3. Keep reminding yourself of how far you've come (it takes time). 3. Talk with others that are in the same boat as you are. Find out what they did. 4. Lastly, from school, learn good study habits.

WORD OF CAUTION: Before you post any more job sites let me remind you that although a part of me is happy when others succeed in this business, another part of me (the part that pays bills) is also a little let down when I don't get that job. When you post possible job opportunities on these forums, that decreases the chances of you getting one in the future.

Thanks for replying.

Didn't see the archives at the bottom, I just went back two pages, and it stopped there.

Um, I definitely get what you're saying, and I think everyone else pretty much adopts the same stance if they're not actually already a professional animator. I've asked around it seems like not many people like to reply to these things or give a concrete answer, and it's probably because there aren't any, just gotta do things yourself, eh?

Will read through the archives, wouldn't have posted this had I known.

LOL!

I'm not being rude or blunt out of malice here, so bear all of this in mind as you read.

The whole issue of schooling is one that a lot of people get so wound up on that they cannot see straight.

There was a time, perhaps as long as 20 something years ago....where the number of decent animation schools world-wide could be counted on two hands, and maybe have a finger or two to spare.
Getting into them then, was about as tough as getting into them now.

And not everyone did so.
Some folks just got into the biz by learning the stuff on their own, by having enough innate talent to get work in some entry level slot and work their way up, learning on the job as they went.

Now that sounds all fine and dandy, right? Its not like that now, is it?
Nope, things have changed to a degree..........but not like you might expect.

Oh sure, recruiters sometimes follow a script that says talent must have a degree, must have attended a school, must have experience on this software, must have that......must have, must have......
And the door is blocked for anyone that cannot show that kind of pedigree.

Bullshit.
Let's keep in mind that animation is a "performance" art, where the talent must be able to DEMONSTRATE their abilities. The pedigree is meaningless if they have all those credits to their damn, but their artistic ability is poor, right?
Talent is the greatest asset of worth in the biz, all the rest come distant second.

Now, go back to that time 20 years ago, again...........if you did not get into one of the few schools around, you had to learn on your own.
Outside of the schools, what resources were there to learn by?
A few books, some fleeting insights picked up here and there, perhaps some lectures or tips passed out at conventions or other gatherings...maybe some mentoring from a pro.
That was pretty much it.

Is that the same today?
Aw, hell no!
The resources available to aspiring talent today is ENORMOUS compared to what it was 20 years ago. Not only are the numbers of schools greater by hundreds, but the internet provides access to thousands of times more pieces of info to assist a newcomer.

What does that all mean?
Well, the stone cold truth is that schooling CAN help, but its not needed.

I'm self-taught. I started out in 1985 and learned on the job. I'm one of those examples mentioned above, where I did not go to Cal-Arts, Sheridan or those other schools. I learned pretty much on my own and from my mentors in the biz. I think if I was starting out today, with the info-rich resources out there now, it'd be correspondingly easier.

But the path you take and the outcome of that path really depends on your skills.

I've taught animation and storyboarding subjects in films schools for almost a decade, and I've seen students that went through the program with weak skills and came out educated, but still had weak skills.
What good is that?

Those students that succeeded, either developed a specific ability to focus, or had already honed their art skills to a higher level on their own before enrolling in school.
I've also seen students attend shitty schools, where the training was pretty piss-poor, and they still had the stones on their own to take what little they got and get to the next level on their own.

My advice to you is, while still looking for schools, to go into over-drive and work on your drawing skills in the meantime. The closer you get to drawing like those guys ( Ralph Bakshi, Eric Larson or whoever you admire the most) before you find a school that is a good fit for you, the better able that school will be able to serve you.
Get a hold of, by any means, the commonly-used software like Photoshop, or Toon Boom, FLASH and/or Maya.....and learn them on your own. Take life-drawing classes, on your own. Get every animation and cartooning book you can find, on your own.....and read them thoroughly.
Perseverance is the key, and patience is an asset.
Don't get caught up in the bullshit.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Oh, and check out the two stickied threads at the top of the Animation Cafe forum--they should both have a lot of answers for you.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Thanks, I actually didn't read the art and animation schools sticky because I had already done my fair share of research on the topic, and did get in to the school I wanted, but...I couldn't afford the loans. I will look into it now though, probably good nuggets of information in there.

I completely agree with your post, it's something I hear over and over again from other animators (at least from their interviews), that information is out there and if you're good, you will be found.

I had written a pretty lengthy post, but...something went haywire, so it's gone. Anyway, I will follow the advice, right now I'm just studying traditional though. Will get into those other mediums when I can get something, at least a ball, to animate fluidly.

I guess my main gripe was getting into the industry, and how it seems impossible unless you have some sort of degree. Whereas in the past, studios would accept anyone who could draw well (from what I've heard), and not need to know the jargon and pipeline of the industry, they could just start as an inbetweener and go up from there.

"I guess my main gripe was getting into the industry, and how it seems impossible unless you have some sort of degree. Whereas in the past, studios would accept anyone who could draw well (from what I've heard), and not need to know the jargon and pipeline of the industry, they could just start as an inbetweener and go up from there."

I've had.........disagreements with other voices here on degrees.
The debate centres around their value in being recruited, and how recruiters look for degrees.

I maintain those recruiters are either idiots, or just following a script they have been told to follow and are trying to hire via some kind of "checklist".

IMO, a degree is nice........but it means NOTHING without talent.
In fact a student can meet the academic standards of an institution that gains them a degree and still have marginal artistic abilities that mean they will NOT be hired.
A paper pedigree.......a degree.........is meaningless if the artist is weak.
The real value of a degree is if someone wants to teach.......but again.....experience, actual talent seems to win out over that.
I've been carefully watching job posting for teachers in animation programs for a few years now.......just out of curiosity. Most of them now specify a degree of "similar industry experience--whereas there was a short period of time when degrees were de rigeur. I guess they discovered a lot of degree-holders becoming teachers that knew jack-shit about animation.
Heck-I know of some established schools that wanted degree holders for teachers--BUT DID NOT CARE WHAT THE MAJOR OR MINOR WAS ON THE DEGREE!

Oy vey! What good is that?

Same thing with animation--what good is a talent with a degree who cannot draw at the level the studio hiring demands?
That's frighteningly more common than people might think.
Very few animation programs.... VERY few demand that the students draw a to a certain standard, as they would have to in a studio. Its safe to say that 99% of the schools out there let students self-explore rather than work off of industry-level material ( which is why that maybe 1 in 10 students can actually draw to a professional level model-sheet)

The paper certificate they hand you.......that degree....just says you completed the course.......it doesn't mean the artist has the talent needed.
Schooling CAN short-cut the time it takes to getting into the biz, by giving the student technical info and some skills/or techniques that hone or enhance their basic talent--BUT, there's very few schools around that will teach enough in-depth to take a weak artist and make them into a strong one.
You'd be better served to enrol into school if you are already close to being ready for industry, because school can groom you better if you talent is more developed.
Heck, there's still some studios out there that will take a raw, but talents greenhorn and put then at a desk to learn on the job---it still happens, but the talent has to be there first.

That is why I maintain to the end of the day that genuine talent is the only real cachet in the biz.
Gaining actual talent is HARDER, by far, than gaining a degree--so, imo, focus on developing your actual artistic talent before anything else.
To be candid, if anyone else tells you otherwise, they are either lying to you, or they do not know what they are talking about.
There should be no confusion about this.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)