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Story boarding in Flash

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Story boarding in Flash

I know that there are some of you on this board that are quite experienced in storyboarding ,( Ken! ). There has been an ongoing discussion here at work over the changing role - requirments of a board artist in a flash, or if you prefer digital, production pipeline particularly in regards to camera angles and character designs.
Have any of you had to change how you have boarded shows?
Have you been asked to do boards on computer as opposed to paper?
What are your thoughts!:D

Robert.A's picture
The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on. It is never of any use to oneself. My Blog: Strange Thoughts

The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on. It is never of any use to oneself. My Blog: Strange Thoughts

I Had a similar Q:
http://bbs.coldhardflash.com/viewtopic.php?t=829

I think it makes absolute sense to work directly in Flash. It kills several birds with one stone: Storyboard, animatic, layout.....and in one of those sublinks they talk about using character builds....which would eliminate redrawing the character and could double as scene assembly. It makes sense when an interface install base like the cintiq is on the rise. Currently even many good artists are not totally comfortable with the tablet as they are with pencil so work with a tablet may be rougher....which is ok if you are in-house or independent...but if work is being farmed-out from preprodcution to production it still needs the level of detail that pencil and paper delivers (Cintiq could deliver this.).

The sub-text of my Q on that other forum was that I am currently instructing a Flash term and I didn't want to get the students to do a step that wouldn't be used in the real world. However, they can always improve drawing. So officially I suggested doing a board on paper first selling them on how a good one is an assest to a portfolio. Unofficially if they draw directly in flash I don't ding them as it is the end animatic and animation I am evaluating....not how the necessarily got there.

Thanks graphiteman. Good thread you linked to there. I guess the other part of my question has more to do with whether or not you, as board artist, has had to change how you tell the story visualy. I'm all for using whatever tech makes it easier to do the job be it pencil or cintique but I'm more curious about the implications to story telling in a flash world.
For the last 5 years or so I have seen and heard conflicts between boarding and design with regards to dynamic angles or rotation of characters or crazy action.
Flash productions tend to lean towards limiting all of these things to minimize build time and such.
Board artists are used to creating dynamic scenes that will allow the camera to move from only a straight on shot to 3/4 down and so on but with increasing pressure on faster cheaper..... There doesn't seem to be the willingness or desire to allow the design team to have the time to do shots like that. More of the Flintstones type of show is what we end up with.
I'm not sure how widespread this thought is but there are a lot of flash shows that end up being very " horrizontal" visually.
I hope I'm making sense?

The only thing to do with good advice is to pass it on. It is never of any use to oneself. My Blog: Strange Thoughts

Unless you've got a good computer set-up ( Cintiq monitor, good processing speeds etc) digital boards are a pain in the ass.

I'm currently pencil 'boarding on a show that is being animated in FLASH and its been frustrating.
Part of it is due to the fact that I'm working on paper, part of it is due to the nature of the show( action-adventure), its scripts and the restrictions put in place by using FLASH.

FLASH essentially uses a "catalogue" of set images and component parts of figures and manipulates them like paper cut-outs--at least that's the common appearance.

That means the 'board artists are technically limited as to what kinds of poses and gestures they can use.
In some respects, its like working on the old H&B or Filmation limited animation shows, with a lot of their "stock" re-use.
But the problem lies in that the board artists ideally need to know what poses and set-up are available, and have access to them.
Additionally, the situation is further vexed because scripts often call for different situations, characters and expressions from show to show.
The current series I'm on often introduces all-new characters and environments with each episode.

If Hero-guys uses his Maxi-thunder-punch in one episode, and his atomic-kick-in-the-balls the next, that's two different set-ups--esspecially considering what comes before and after.
I HATE just jumping to a stock action pose as a cue for animation because I think it impedes the flow of storytelling and is overly gimmicky.
To use FLASH economically in this sense, you have to RELY on that kind of trick.

My honest impression is that Flash is being used because its cheap. My heartfelt opinion is that FLASH cripples, or at least severely restricts storytelling opportunities by imposing limitations based on "what can be done".

Granted, 2D has limitations too, but simple things like "no down angle shots"--tends to really squelch storytelling options. I've observed over time that most FLASH series, outside of the comedy genre, really resort to a lot more cinematic gimmicks like sudden split and widescreen shots to convey actions.
Staging in perspective becomes less a consideration, and ever shot seems to be eye-level, or near eye-level. About the only grace here is that the camera can still be placed at any distance from the subject.
The ability to rotate objects, or more objects 3/4 to/from camera is harder to do in FLASH--and sadly, continues to elude a lot of out-sourced 2D shops too.

Now, herein lies the real problem............its a matter of planning.

Flash can, imo, easily pull off something like a Jonny Quest type action series--as the animated in there was very limited. FLASH could do pure anime for the same reasons.
FLASH cartoons though, predominantly, animate like shit, again imo--looking like moving paper cut-outs.
The show I'm on doesn't have the time in the schedule for a lot of thinking on the 'boards.
To take a script, translate the writer's intentions into a visual, re- ( or DE-) construct that visual into something that FLASH can handle and then stage/compose/'board accordingly takes time.
I've given myself monster head-aches and bad stomach-aches trying to second-guess just what can be done with that vile software. Its gotten so bad that in trying to find out what's possible, my queries to the directors have been responded with:" just do what comes natural to you and we'll figure out how to make it work at our end".

BLOOOOODDDYYY-EEEFFFFIIINNNN-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem.

Okay, that makes things easier at my end, but part of my job is to problem-solve so things are easier at THEIR end. Otherwise, why use the junk?

I've just started scratching the surface as to things like how extreme a push-in or pull-out you can go to before the software craps out the lines of the character/image. I suppose IN THEORY, the software can be atuned to compensate for such cameral travel, but I'd like to know if there is a limit.
Things like a complex compound camera move ARE easier done digitally--moving the shot in a "L" shaped pan is now do-able.
That's great capability--but again, its limited by things like a staged camera angle--or so they say.

The other problems I have are pretty basic, some that there's just no "work-around" to. I feel that digital boards have a bad Achilles Heel, in that they are hardware dependant.
If the computer goes down, the server crashes, the power goes out--you are royally fooked--especially if the client is on the phone screaming for that 'board.

Paper boards only need a sharp pencil and work 100% of the time.
Heck, recently we had some several hours-long blackouts up here in the Interior, and I just moved my drawing space to the kitchen table by a big window, attached my old wind-up sharpener to the table and kept working at my 'board until it got too dark.
I couldn't upload to the FTP until the power came back on, but could still get pages out.

Now, my hands skills are confident, my computers skills not-as, and my trust of computers is very low. The tweak-time on a paper drawing is minutes--the effects I want to achieve are intuitive and quick because I know what i want and can get those results almost via reflex.
On a computer, unless you really know the tools you could spend hours trying to figure out a technique that takes far less time by hand.
On the computer, if something goes wrong the entire days work can go "blink". I shudder to think about that.

And then there's staring at the bloody screen all day...........

So, yea, I resist the embrace of the machine.
I've got a wacom tablet now and have fiddled with it, but not in any depth.
I don't like the interface as is( indirect drawing), and I'm contemplating getting a Cintiq, simply because direct drawing IS more intuitive.
Thing is, I'd have to fork out $3000 to get the thing, and I'd rather spend that coin on a 50+ inch TV screen instead.

$3000 would keep me in pencils and paper for the rest of my life, too LOL.

My last argument is that I don't think digital boards look as good, nor can they be given the same deadlines that a paper board has.

Given time, given skills, given trust I DO think that digital boards CAN indeed turn in better and more useful 'boards than done on paper. You can work right in colour, paint BG's or use detailed stock shots as is, you can go right to editing a animatic and even mostly forgo the layout stage of animation.

Its granting those three wishes that's the key to it all.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

My honest impression is that Flash is being used because its cheap. My heartfelt opinion is that FLASH cripples, or at least severely restricts storytelling opportunities by imposing limitations based on "what can be done".
.

This is the low bandwidth thinking on Flash but isn't true at all anymore. Sure, flash uses symbols and puppeting for speed and small K...but like any tool..should never be a crutch. You can do anthing in Flash that you can do with any other 2-d if you just make the extra drawing and draw the in-betweens.

You're working with a studio that might be trying to maximize profitability by cutting corners and reusing animations, but it has nothing to do with Flash itself.

We don't "hold back" on boards at all in Flash...what Flash does do is gives us super-fast animatics.

I’m not a professional board artist but have done my own independently from thumbnails to a little more polished. Needless to say when I have worked at studios, all animators have to deal with them and understand them.
I would think the question is more about design and how it effects the board artist rather than somehow Flash being limiting to the board artist. One can do anything in Flash.
And that design is dictated by the fact of the good ol’ things like schedule, budget, talent level and availability and lest not forget symbol usage is the killer app and most economical way to animate in Flash.
So if your series deadline is yesterday, your builds will tend to be limited and stylised….maybe a ¾ , profile, frontal and back…..no builds for aerial shots J . So the board artists, yes, will have to consider no over- the-shoulder-down-shots J .
But I’m seeing more shows now that are exhaustive in their symbols and animation; studios building these vast libraries…so much so I had to ask myself if "Being Ian" had reverted to hand drawn.
I think limitations or parameters can be good and force inventiveness in design. I think we live in exciting times design wise. What has been lost as far as round 3d solidity designs in Flash has been made up by the ability to do smooth, overlapping and even fluid motion. I’m a big fan of the early HB TV stuff. Until Flash I thought many shows of the past decade or so, even good ones, were over-directed and over-animated. In the old days the cost prohibitive nature of animation + schedule dictated the economization (I don’t want to say "limitation"of animation.). Today it’s the software and the demand for 4 times (I just pulled that number out of my hat rhetorically speaking) as many shows in the same time limit Bill and Joe would produce 13 that define the limitations. ……At least for now….the Flash stuff is getting more sophisticated. If a modern schedule of 65 shows was used to produce 13 we’d see more fuller flash stuff imo.

So my short answer is : "Yup!".

I just saw my ol' friend's Ken's post.
I will concede he made good points about the analog pencil and grey matter software over technology that I didn't think of.....He's the board artist....I'm the animator easily jazzed by character design. :)

The symbols catalogue for something like Being Ian scares me.

I can see the head-ache of sorting through all that imagery looking for the one ( or two, three) images that "say" what you want the pose/expression to say.
Man, I eat up enough time flipping through my model-packs looking for a character design as it is.

From a practising 'board artist's perspective, that kind of thing is counter-intuitive because you spend so much clerical time sorting references to use that it disrupts the creative tempo of actually 'boarding.
Maybe the 'board guys would need two or three screen set-ups at their stations to help manage all that info, but again, the expense of all that equipment...........

If cost is no object, yea........its all good. Using a computer makes things easier because you just click on a file name from a list or thumbnail and you got your image--rather than spending 15 minutes flipping thru a couple 3 ring binders, or worse..........a piles of loose pages.

I dunno.......my instincts fight the change. In all thoeretical terms and given the array of immediate tools-at-hand the computer offers the idea of digital 'boarding makes complete sense. Yet I feel in my gut that we are abandoning something intrinsically simple for something needlessly complex and limiting ourselves in doing so.

Call me a dinosaur, I'll be over there at the table playing cards with the Brontosaurus and the Triceratops...

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

It's nice to know...

that Ken doesn't have an opinion, either way! ;)

Me myself, I started off doing TV storyboards with highly toxic fumes...which explains a lot, actually. But I digress...

Luckily, most spots were for 30 or 60 second commercials! Pencils, markers, scanner...no problemo.

Enter Photoshop. Whoopsie-doodles, get electronic or die! Luckily I was an e-pro at an ad agency and made the change-over relatively easy.

Long story short, I have a foot in both camps: I love paper, and I love my Wacom. (But in a good way!)

Cheers!
Splatman:D

I do find a lot of Flash animation to lack a lot of dynamic angles. It's a problem I'm currently facing. I am limited by the symbols that I have available, and my symbols are limited by how much time I have to create them. So when I board, I have to keep these factors in mind. I'm actually forcing myself to try to come up with more dynamic angles by being more creative with what I already have, but sometimes there just isn't a substitute.

Sharvonique Studios
www.sharvonique.com

Animated By Sharvonique Blog
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I do find a lot of Flash animation to lack a lot of dynamic angles. It's a problem I'm currently facing. I am limited by the symbols that I have available, and my symbols are limited by how much time I have to create them. So when I board, I have to keep these factors in mind. I'm actually forcing myself to try to come up with more dynamic angles by being more creative with what I already have, but sometimes there just isn't a substitute.

for me a way around that has been to spread the action out over quick successive cuts. dosent always work. but its effective.

edit : i meant that you add diff angles or add dynamicisim through multi angles in those cuts.

Thanks, Skinny. I'm already trying this method. But like you said, it doesn't always work. I guess those are the areas where I just have to create new symbols or work frame by frame.

Sharvonique Studios
www.sharvonique.com

Animated By Sharvonique Blog
http://sharvonique.animationblogspot.com

AWN Showcase Gallery

Thanks, Skinny. I'm already trying this method. But like you said, it doesn't always work. I guess those are the areas where I just have to create new symbols or work frame by frame.

yeap. its a trick a lot of live action films also use to add in their vfx etc. it all depends on what the quickest way is. ive done a few things where i have had to merge flash and 2d and it works out nicely.

edit : question - do you decide this when you begin the shot or on the storyboard?

I decide while creating the storyboard and testing out the animatic. But sometimes the shot doesn't appear to work as well as in the animatic, or I come up with a better idea and need to make adjustments.

Sharvonique Studios
www.sharvonique.com

Animated By Sharvonique Blog
http://sharvonique.animationblogspot.com

AWN Showcase Gallery