Search form

newbie-ish question re: production

19 posts / 0 new
Last post
newbie-ish question re: production

Hi,
I've done a few mini-shorts, about 20 second flash pieces, but am now in the process of attempting to do my first real 5 minute (roughly) short. As a result, I'm trying to figure out the best way to proceed. I'm comfortable in Flash and have a little experience in AE. I definitely want to include a few multiplane camera shots so I'm figuring I'll use the camera in AE for that (which, btw, I've never used.) I'm using limited animation. I'm doing this for the web, but want the flexibility of going to broadcast, so I'm doing it 24p, using broadcast templates/colors that are NTSC safe.
This is how I'm planning on putting together the short:
1) write script
2) do storyboard
3) create all the assets--meaning backgrounds and for the multiplane shots, layers of backgrounds, all characters, including symbolizing all of them in flash.
4)do the voiceovers
5)put together the character animations and lip-syncing in flash per scene.
6)import the bg's and character animations per scene into AE, do the camera moves in AE, touch up with any filters necessary (I heard it's good to use a blur on some lines in ae which can eliminate flicker)
7)Export each completed scene from AE as a quicktime file and string it together in Final Cut Pro. Add SFX and music sweetening. Export as a finished Quicktime file.

Does this sound right? Any suggestions? Tips? Anything I'm doing wrong or is there a better way? I heard about 3dCam--the multiplane camera plug-in for flash. Has anyone tried it? Should I use that instead of the camera in AE? Any tutorials available to really learn multiplane camera moves in AE?
Any help is appreciated.
Wally

you will have a massive quicktime file.

id recommend doing layouts and scenes in flash with your camera movements done. export layers to AE do what you need to do there with effects.

take it to Premiere, or Vegas.

Render.

i meant export a TGA sequence...

This is how I'm planning on putting together the short:
1) write script
2) do storyboard
3) create all the assets--meaning backgrounds and for the multiplane shots, layers of backgrounds, all characters, including symbolizing all of them in flash.
4)do the voiceovers
5)put together the character animations and lip-syncing in flash per scene.
6)import the bg's and character animations per scene into AE, do the camera moves in AE, touch up with any filters necessary (I heard it's good to use a blur on some lines in ae which can eliminate flicker)
7)Export each completed scene from AE as a quicktime file and string it together in Final Cut Pro. Add SFX and music sweetening. Export as a finished Quicktime file.

That's pretty much the same production flow that I use, except that I export my finished animation directly from AE. You can also overlap some of your tasks, like recording while you create the assets.

I also recommend that you create an animatic to get all of your timing right. That way you'll see how long you need to animate a scene and you can see where you need to make adjustments before doing the actual animation. Then you can just swap out the animatic scenes with the real animated clips.

Sharvonique Studios
www.sharvonique.com

Animated By Sharvonique Blog
http://sharvonique.animationblogspot.com

AWN Showcase Gallery

thanks, guys.
Skinnylizard, a couple of questions:
1) what's a TGA sequence?
2) could you clarify more what you mean about doing camera moves in flash, then bringing into AE for filters, etc. Do you mean, only do scenes that need it in AE? and export the rest directly from flash into my NLE (I have final cut pro) Should I do regular zooms, pans in Flash and only use the camera in AE for multiplane shots?
Thanks again,
Wally

1) TGA sequence is one of the ways of exporting files from FLash. it creates a frame by frame sequence which you can then edit and touch up in post.

2) thats exactly what i mean. i prefer using Flash as much as possible, with the proper pre-prod you would rarely need to go out of the program for the production portion. at most you might have to do some bits traditionally to link movements and you can just clean and ink-paint in flash itself for such scenes.

thanks, skinnylizard.
I've been spending the past coupla days going over the camera in AE and decided to do just what you suggested: most of the camera moves in flash. Since it's limited animation, 2d, I can pull off all of my pans, zooms, cuts in flash. only thing I'll need AE for is the occassional multiplane camera move and the VERY occassional filter/fx.
I've actually been looking into LAYER-Ex, which is made by the same company that does 3dcam--it's pretty cheap ($30)--and allows you to export layers either collectively or as a group to most app's (like a swf, or quicktime file, etc.)
Once I get to that point in my animation, I think it'll be a real time saver--especially since I'm planning on doing each scene of my 5 minute short as a flash "scene" (just so it's cataloged correctly)
BTW, how do you export a TGA sequence from flash? I looked in my export movie and it wasn't listed by name--is TGA sequence just the broad terms for exporting frame by frame and you just choose the format (ie, exporting a tiff sequence, bmp sequence, etc?) If so, which do you recommend? Since I'm using FLash 8, AE 6.5 and Final Cut pro 5, I have a bit of flexability and AE will recognize SWF's. I don't want the quality to be diminished before I even render to quicktime.
Thanks again!

u cant go TGA directly afaik. you export images to PNG and then reconvert unless you are happy with the quality.

this for Flash Mx 2004

I tried it using Flash 8 to AE 6.5 and it works.
Question: why do that (exporting the individual frames) vs. export a swf into AE or an NLE (like Final Cut Pro)? Don't the frames show up either way? Is anything lost in the process of exporting a swf into AE or an NLE?

well its mostly about quality. the seq allow you to specify the resolution and dpi. so you can export scene by scene, according to storyboar or sequence with hi quality and then work on them in premier, ae, vegas.

never worked with swf in post because frankly it renders as it plays which isnt good. and anything else like a .mov etc become massively heavy.

using the tga is a lot of work, but its what most proffesionals do and it works best in all cases (size, logistics, quality)

thanks, skinny lizard. that definitely makes a lot of sense.
so when you put your scenes together, then if you do the tga sequence, do you create a new fla for each scene? (sorry for picking your brain so much, i'm a newbie)
have you heard about layer-ex? the site says that nickelodeon is using it. i'm wondering if it does the same thing as a tga sequence, but saves time...

never heard of layer ex. you have a link for me?

actually see tga sequence is just images. hi quality images, you dont need to have flas for it. you use the completed fla of the shot you have created and thats split up into images.

these images are then exported, sycned with sound and then rendered as compete films in premiere vegas etc.

I'm a writer, so I'm curious about your content. Do you have a story?

Jab and I have everything written for a six-minute short we pitched to Frederator, if you need something ready to go. No storyboard, but a script and almost a hundred rough sketches.

Skinny, how do you go about converting PNG images to TGA? I normally use PNG sequences, so do you think that TGA images actually maintain a better quality or is it just a matter of preference?

Sharvonique Studios
www.sharvonique.com

Animated By Sharvonique Blog
http://sharvonique.animationblogspot.com

AWN Showcase Gallery

sharv,

i take the png and have it converted into tga, but thats usually only when i need a conversion to a digibeta tape.

usually i work with png,only when i need to go to broadcast do i switch. i dont think the quality differs that much. just that the postprod guy i use asks for tga.

Skinny,
Here's the link to Layer-Ex. Click on the products menu--this company also does 3dcam, a 3d camera plug-in for flash.

https://www.4gsw.com/

How do you convert pga files into a tga sequence? Also, if you're doing it that way, doesn't it blend together all the scenes? how can you separate scenes (unless you do each scene as an individual fla?)

SpaceGhost, I'm actually a writer as well---but I'm also an artist. My script is actually done already, thanks. But good luck with yours.
Wally

Thanks for the info, Skinny.

wallywood77, I recommend creating your scenes as separate FLA files. You don't want to create one giant FLA file that contains all of your scenes because the file will get too big for Flash to handle properly.

Sharvonique Studios
www.sharvonique.com

Animated By Sharvonique Blog
http://sharvonique.animationblogspot.com

AWN Showcase Gallery

thanks, Shar. Question: Does anyone here output directly from Flash to an NLE using Quicktime? I'm a Mac person, the quicktime quality is really good. Any reason I shouldn't do that, say if a scene is completed in Flash and doesn't need AE tweaking?

thanks, Shar. Question: Does anyone here output directly from Flash to an NLE using Quicktime? I'm a Mac person, the quicktime quality is really good. Any reason I shouldn't do that, say if a scene is completed in Flash and doesn't need AE tweaking?

i still dont do that. somehow it dosent click. it depends what mode you are outputting for ideally. for web flash is ideal.

if size isnt a consideration and proffesional finishing not a need then you dont have to go the extra step with the tga etc and take a final output.

usually for most of our work, there is always the sound sync etc to do so you have to fo tgas.

also the thing is we have lots of files and flas, diff scenes, everything done separately so one big quicktime has never been an option cept for a quick preview and delete.

thanks, Skinny.
I'm definitely going to try it tga when I'm ready to export/output.