I am founding member of the hip-hop restoration council which was started to celebrate innovation and elevation in hip-hop. Feeling disillusioned by the current trends, trite subjects and cookie cutter videos and radio singles the HHRC celebrates the artform that used to be based on breaking the mould and going against the grain.
The Hip-HOp Restoration Council project is an exciting endeavor that is underway featuring some of the best and brightest veteran emcees that are known for making music that means something.
As part of the album we are looking to do an animated short for songs from the project. The songs feature some very notable hip-hop veterans. While I can't make a public announcement of the participants, an example of one of the artists participating taht anyone familiar with hip-hop from the "golden age" is the Jungle Brothers if you are familiar with thier body of work and their legacy as part of the Native Tongues collective.
The project will be extremely high profile and will bring a great deal of attention and spotlight for those involved.
Additional detail can be provided for individuals specifically interested but at a high level the concept of the video will involve plenty of REAL hip-hop themes (NOT THE STEREOTYPICAL RIMS, CARS, GUNS AND NAKED CHICKS) will a futuristic space age twist.
I am seeking a skilled animator that is interested in bringing an out of this world vision to fruition and making a real ill conceptual piece to support this. We need a video that will be good enough to air on TV (domestic and international) so need some high quality workmanship.
As you have probably heard way too often this is an independent project and so there is not a huge budget available. For anyone that is seriously interested we can discuss this and see if there is a nominal fee that is acceptable for the amount of work required to bring this concept to reality.
The HHRC will write up the "treatment" for the video and work with the animator on the execution of this vision.
Please respond here or directly by email to doom@ouofam.com. If you email and don't get an immediate response reply to this post.
Please respond only if serious and include link to some of your work for reference.
Thanks for your time.
the amount of effort required to do anything TV ready means that the bare minimum of $750 USD per minute will barely keep an animator paying their rent.
You ask if WE are serious; if YOU are serious you should state if your "not a huge budget available" can allow for $750 per minute.
Also every song is different like every script is different - one song/script that needs 3 minutes airtime might take 3 months to animate , but a different song/script might take NINE MONTHS to get 3 minutes of airtime, meaning the animator earns only ONE THIRD per hour, so you should post a link to an mp3 that is a good sample of what you want animated for us to know if it's worth contacting you.
Especially since you stated "a futuristic space age twist" which means WEEKS of design and sketched you need to accept before any animation can actually BEGIN.
[I]I'll work 10 hours a day for $350.
Andreas does the photoshop posters for Paramount, gets $700 per day at 7 hours plus an hour off for lunch.
You do the math as to which is a better deal.[/I]
thanks for "schooling me."
I am NOT publicly posting links to mp3s from this project due to contractual restrictions but I will OF COURSE share the song in question indivudially to those who respond to the inquiry. If you would like to hear the themes and style of our previous music you can visit www.ouofam.com and www.myspace.com/zl and www.dominationrec.com (artist - O.U.O)
I will also NOT discuss dollar amounts and payments in open forum but if you have minimum amounts in mind please send me a message and I'll let you know if that's within budget. It doesn't make sense to do this here just as you would not do so for any RFP.
Again feel free to pass on this if after reading you don't think you are interested based on cost benefit you perceive. However, please DO contact me if you want any clarification or additional information.
But YES I am dead serious and "not a huge budget" is a subjective statement.
Also I mentioned TV ONLY because i have immediate access to a number of people that have TV shows as well as people that do hip-hop video compilation series. If this is prohibitive its worth discusing regards to option, cost, time etc. Again purpose is to discuss and I can't possibly cover every single question in a single post but am happy to discuss with anyone further one-on-one if you want to email.
You can also google OUO hip-hop and Zimbabwe Legit for more background in addition to the websites provided.
Our current releases are OUO - of unknown origin and Zimbabwe Legit - Brothers from the mother.
all well and good, but see, people who can draw and paint have been through all this before.
and we know what amounts to less than minimum wage per hour for what you will need.
and we know what your not willing to reply directly RE the $750 per minute probably means RE making more than a lousy $7 per hour for the effort required to make what you likely need is unlikely, meaning no-one is gonna get minimum wage/working at Burger King Dollars per hour of effort from you. Saying "we'll discuss things privately in e-mail" just means you want leverage to bargain people down into the ghetto ( a term a would be Hip Hopper should know) and you know it. Don't get on a high horse with me.
The fact that you aren't willing to state directly whether or not $750 will in any way be an option for the animator speaks more in terms of what you refuse to say than what you've chosen to say.
Take a look at the samples available from many of the Indian companies offering their services here for less than $500 USD per minute. If you're "all dat" as you claim to be, that will not be problem, no problem d'loading their samples. THAT will be the quality you get for "undisclosed budget". Whether you like it or not.
Except for Skinny Lizard's outfit, who's demo I've seen, and it's VERY good, but there's no way that crew is gonna work for you the way you are presenting this.
So thanks for giving you another opportunity to "school you" more, mofo, because frankly, you NEED some schooling. And until you are more than another sheister, mofo, you can DROP the sarcasm, because you ain't EARNED the right to use it until you got some Ben Franklins to stick in the animator hoochie's G-STRING, got it?
[I]I'll work 10 hours a day for $350.
Andreas does the photoshop posters for Paramount, gets $700 per day at 7 hours plus an hour off for lunch.
You do the math as to which is a better deal.[/I]
Welcome to the AWN Forums HHRC.
I just have a few questions that I think should also be addressed. What about character designs, backgrounds, vehicle designs, storyboards and sound FX. Are these things that are already done or will be covered by you or do the animators have to do these things as well? Also what is your time frame? All these will add to the cost of your budget, ON TOP OF the cost of animation. How many characters in each video? It's easier and cheaper to animate one character than it is to animate 50.
As for budgets, don't expect super high end quality if you don't have a huge budget. The old saying, you get what you pay for rings true, but I'm sure you will be able to find someone in what ever your price range. As for what your budget is, keeping it private and not posting it on a public forum is perfectly fine. If someone is interested in your project, I'm sure you will let them know what your budget is in an email.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Bear in mind that LoveClassics sentiments are mirrored by a great number of professionals in the biz.
Part of the "umbrage" taken is frustration that outsiders never really are aware of the man-hours that go into something like animation.
Because we ALL have an association to drawing from childhood, the popular myth is that it "cannot be all that hard".
Its more, much more than just drawing.
A lot of folks with shining ideas figure if they cannot afford the pros, then they can just get some kid to do it.
Its like paying a 1rst year Med intern to do brain surgery on you as opposed to a 25 yrs experienced Neuro-surgeon--you are just getting that much more confidence for the money with the more experienced person.
( and speaking of neuro-surgery, an animator is often so trained in both technical and artistic disciplines that they, indeed, have a comparable level of skillset to a neuro-surgeon or other doctors. Or airline pilots. Or lawyers. Or astronauts. Its true)
When you get a pro to do the work, you're not just getting a better class of skill, in most cases, you are getting someone that's already made some/most of the mistakes a lesser experienced talent has YET to makes.
Mistakes often cost money, and newcomer talent making mistakes can cost as much as hiring pros that make NO mistakes.
Of course, facing the simple fact that affording pros is very daunting, its also why you don't see all that much animation being done--it costs a LOT of money.
And if you want it done well...........to best represent your product and you..........then it costs even MORE money. If you ared not interested in having the product represent your product in the best light possible, then something like paper cutouts can be done under a digital camera for next to nothing. Sure, that'll look awful, but it'll cost next to nothing, right?
You will have a VERY hard time finding an artistic someone on your wavelength-that's pretty much a statistical fact. Not impossible, just really hard.
However, raisng the funds to pay for pros is statistically a LOT easier and far more likely to happen. And you'll find many more people suddenly on your wavelength as well.
The upside is that you "have a budget"--which is more than most people making offers like this have. Your budget might not compensate with a living wage, but that's not always a consideration IF you find that mentioned person on the same wavelength. Offering even a token amount to someone that believes in your project can attract that person to work on said project.
But bear in mind that a living wage compensates for time and effort during the project. That's a bigger incentive to remain thru the job than offering a token cost that doesn't cover more than a meal or two--and if something better paying comes along............guess what usually happens?
Obviously, if you care enough about the project, you'll want to see it thru to realization.
That's the arena you've stepped into here.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
first, thanks to HHRC for a private reply that was helpful.
next, what Ken said, also a nod to ape’s question RE how much pre-production is necessary.
Part of the tone of my initial posts came from the amount of work that your call for work indicates. not “implies”; INDICATES.
Please bear in mind that when I animate myself, if I have no budget to pay someone, I do it myself. I NEVER ask anyone to work for free, and even if I have a budget I don’t ask anyone onto a project if that budget will not compensate for the $ per hour that they’d get working in a bar/pub for the same amount of work hours.
Thus yes, I agree with Ape that you don’t need to state an exact budget, and I commend you for having a budget, but the budget for a clip like ones for The Gorillaz would have to be far greater than the budget for something like you see for Aussie hip hoppers here in Australia.
Also, one of the biggest pains in the ass for animation is the lip sync (you probably did not consider this), which is why you see so many indie animated shorts with almost NO DIALOGUE. Hip Hop is almost ALL dialogue, so there’s a truckload of work right there just matching any characters’ mouths to the rhymes. This is something to think about for yourself and also the poor animator.
So it’s possible that the project is very viable, but without giving anything away, maybe it would good to state how many characters there would be in the clips you want, how many space age futuristic props there would be (like weapons or robots or vehicles), etc., because then people would know what they were offering their services for.
I mean, I myself love a lot of Hip Hop and sci fi is one of my favourite genres, but it’s a shitload of work. So I was thinking if you just told us something like “it would have four main characters, 3 spaceships, 2 futuristic city shots and a laser battle plus a funky alien dressed as a dancer from Soul Train”, and then stated MAYBE for the right person you would consider (not promise or warrant) a POSSIBLE payout of MAYBE $750 per completed minute, you would get a lot more samples sent to you.
Which really helps YOU because it gives you a greater pool of talent to choose from.
So apologies for getting riled, and I hope you get this off the ground.
[I]I'll work 10 hours a day for $350.
Andreas does the photoshop posters for Paramount, gets $700 per day at 7 hours plus an hour off for lunch.
You do the math as to which is a better deal.[/I]
love classic, since you like "ghetto expressions" i figured I'd leave you with one. Apologizing doesn't make up for what's been said already. And yeah I'm sure people like to pay rates of 750 to people that are disrepectful and condescending. I think not. Maybe that's why you're only being offered burger king wages for your work.
My whole experience here has been totally soured with the stereotypical rants and insults being hurled about by Love classic. Like I said if you don't like what I'm presenting please save yourself and I some time and keep your racist stereotypes and comments to yourself. I've been nothing but up front and respectful and yet for some reason you take great pleasure in trying to make yourself sound superior and all knowing. And come on man, we stopped name calling in grade school but you evidently have a lot of growing up to do.
To everyone else that replied with comments and feedback I thank you for the input. Besides dude this has been very helpful and will aid in shaping the expectations on both sides. Assuming I can return without having to fight a war of words, I'll answer the questions posed to clarify the parameters of the project. Otherwise I might just correspond with the people who have already emailed or sent private messages and keep it moving. I do understand people's concern about being compensated for their time and talents. I am a musician and wouldn't want to be taken advantage of either.
However, bickering on a message board is a fricking waste of time and distraction. You can't get back lost time which is what this has amounted to responding to all this disrespect.
who said I received BK wages for my work? I said people should not settle for that.
But to avoid bickering and "souring you further" -
apologies mean nothing?
fine.
work means EVERYTHING.
Like character designs I did for DC Comics, Dark Horse and more. Who paid sure-as-hell better wages than BK or YOU.
So put your attitude where your mouth is and accept THIS instead of an apology:
drop the attitude and "crying foul play" (just as juvinile and grade school as what you've calimed I've done), and I'll give you three character designs for FREE. Just send me character descriptions. I'll do them as per any parameters you set forth, you can ditch them or use them as you see fit.
I doubt you'll cry foul at that.
Have a whopper with cheese on my dime, compadre. And supersize it.
[I]I'll work 10 hours a day for $350.
Andreas does the photoshop posters for Paramount, gets $700 per day at 7 hours plus an hour off for lunch.
You do the math as to which is a better deal.[/I]
Sorry your experience here has been less than steller HHRC.
Unless you've delt with animation before, I think you'll be overwhelmed by the amount of time, work, and money it takes to animate a three two four minute music video. This of course varies depending on the quality. As for the budgets, you will find that varies greatly depending on the part of the world the animator or studio is from. But like I said before, you tend to get what you pay for. It might also help if you listed a few styles that you'd want the video to look like. Good luck.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I am an amateur musician (and band member) with an interest in animation. Like many amateur musicians, I spend a lot of time writing and recording songs. I hope to produce something which is musically worthwhile, though realising that it may never enjoy commercial success. I have ideas for animated videos to some of the songs, but currently lack the necessary skills to produce the animations myself.
There must be some amateur animators who take the same approach to their work. Perhaps amateur musicians looking for an animation, can be introduced to amateur animators who might be inspired by the music. How could this be done? The musicians might even produce some music for the animators' own projects.