Search form

Critics wated for our new site

Looking great
20% (1 vote)
Looking okay but needs improvements
40% (2 votes)
Looking bad but can be improved
20% (1 vote)
Looking terrible
20% (1 vote)
Total votes: 5

Comments

Harvey Human's picture

My general criticism is that most potential clients will want a slicker look for their own sites. Your front pages seem to revel in sloppiness.

I would also just take a long hard look at the form and composition.

DSB's picture
Submitted by DSB on

You also might want to pick two or three fonts - tops - and go with them. The multiple fonts, along with the design approach you've taken, makes the screen look cluttered.

Also, take a look at how your art appears - in a lot of cases the resolution causes an aliased look, which doesn't showcase your work to its best effect.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

I posted this over in your other thread about this in Show and Tell, but maybe you've given up on that thread.

This is a suggestion for making your site a little more user friendly. I know you like the size of your original Flash section, but it was just slapped up there, two rectangles next to each other. This way they are still there but a little more integrated, and your navigation is a lot more transparent. And the whole thing is more modular so it's easy to update and if you do it through a hybrid Flash, html site you'll receive more traffic and interest.


Those buttons on the right could be colored to compliment the flash insert.

I'd be very careful about posting your address or phone on the net. Let people email you first and find out they are truly interested before you give this information out. Just a friendly warning.

evansvisualarts's picture

I like it

Hmmm, I'll av to talk to my partner but I think that could work better?

Thats really good of you to do, thanks alot

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

If you need help send me a pm. They are all your elements just put together so they make more sense to the average surfer. There could even be some room for some Google text ads, that might make you some money. You wouldn't need two sites a Flash and html, you just add a little cautionary comment that the Flash plugin is needed, and a link for it's download for those that don't have it.

Sharvonique's picture
Submitted by Sharvonique on

Pat, I also like your redesign. It's much cleaner and easier to read. One of the problems I have with the original design is the cluttered text on the notepad, not the notepad itself. I also don't understand why there's 3 different sets of buttons. I think Pat's design is a good resolution to the problem.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

Thanks Shar, but it wasn't by any means a final solution, these two guys have to come up with something that will work for them. I know that because I am a designer also, and that illustrative examples for improvement are much better than just talking about something. I've got to be able to see it, before I fully understand it.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

If anyone else has suggestions they should post some examples.

ScatteredLogical's picture

I third the vote for Pat's redesign, jumping off point or not. You guys come across better as a result. It's just...intuitive, it speaks the language of layout better.

Sharvonique's picture
Submitted by Sharvonique on

I realize it's not the only solution or the final one, it's just a good one. ;)

evansvisualarts's picture

You've been a big help, I think your absolutely right and we're gonna redo it

Cheers

evansvisualarts's picture

right, this is a link to a rough of how we are changing the site:

The navi bar is changing and the text layout etc but its just the general look and layout Im showing cos we dont wanna get into changing everything if people still dont think it work.

How does it compare to previous one?

http://www.evansvisualarts.com/test%20web/test%20page%202.html

Cheers

Scott

Harvey Human's picture

I hate to say it, but this new design is significantly worse than your original design.

You've retained most of your old problems while introducing many new ones.

In short, if you don't know how to design, then simplify. Stick with the ESSENTIAL information, one good drawing, one good font, one navigation bar, and one or two subtle colors. Maybe don't put any animation on your home page. Don't make your steno sheet and landscape drawing compete for attention. Stay away from fully-saturated colors.

The best thing you could do for your work, in general, would be to pick up a few books on color design and read them from cover to cover.

site design examples:
http://www.dreamworksanimation.com/dwa/opencms/index.html
http://www.aardman.com/html/home.asp?type=html
http://www.laika.com/entertainment/

basic color design:
http://www.writedesignonline.com/resources/design/rules/color.html

evansvisualarts's picture

This is how we changed it last night

A lot of people still have a problem with the pad so Im thinking of just totally getting rid of the pad, have plain text in the middle and the flash box to the left underneath the logo



Harvey Human's picture

You are still trying to cram too much information on the first page.
The steno paper competes with whatever drawing is next to it. Maybe get rid of it.

Get rid of all that text. If you absolutely need that text, put it on an "about" page.

evansvisualarts's picture

Its being done, the paper is being cut, I have found it is hated almost as much as Jar Jar binks.

The lump text is going too

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

Actually you need some information on your first page. Your first page is your first introducation to your consumer. To not use that oppurtunity to introduce your services is missing an opportunity to make a sale.

To present everything important on the first page in Flash format is also a mistake, or even to rely on a graphic alone. Splash pages have been on their way out for sometime now.

You definitely won't need but just direction type text on the portfolio page. I like the direction you are headed though. Your logo reminds me of the Loony Tunes logo.

Harvey Human's picture

Its being done, the paper is being cut, I have found it is hated almost as much as Jar Jar binks.

The lump text is going too

I'll again refer you to the front pages I linked to above:[LIST]
[*]not too many bright colors (Avoid the bright purple and green background you have above.)
[*]one central image
[*]very little text
[*]logo on top[/LIST]Your main selling point will be whichever illustration you choose as a centerpiece. Nothing else on that page - background colors, text, logo, etc. - should overwhelm it.

Sharvonique's picture
Submitted by Sharvonique on

It may help to focus on functionality first, then design. I agree that less text is needed because it's too much to read as a "hello" and there's not enough white space to frame the text. I know it may be hard, but you could probably condense the last 3 paragraphs into a few sentences.

I like some of the aesthetics of the Aardman site, but I find it cluttered and a bit confusing. Another set of eyes are always great to help you see things that you may not have noticed before, but you also want to be careful about having too many cooks in the kitchen.

Harvey Human's picture

It may help to focus on functionality first, then design.

The function and the design of the front page are the same thing.
The function of the front page is to convince potential clients that you know how to design, and to get them to click past the front page.

If you can design your front page well, you will need very little additional content.

Harvey Human's picture

Keep the website design simple and focus on improving the design of the drawing, whether it's the two guys staring at the client, or the rabbit with the television set.

ScatteredLogical's picture

The function of the front page is to convince potential clients that you know how to design, and to get them to click past the front page.

Well said.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

If you focus on making people click past the first page and not the contact button, you've already lost sales.

ScatteredLogical's picture

And if they tend to click on contact buttons without knowing why they're contacting me in the first place, I wouldn't want their sales.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

They click the contact button because what they see on the first page leads them to believe that you can do the job. No one buys graphics wihout speaking to and hashing out the product with the artist/s before hand. And there should be contracts agreed to and signed before any sale takes place.

They stick around and browse because you have already peaked their interest. Or you are giving away something for free whether it be entertainment or information. It's like a resume, how many employers don't even look at multiple page resumes?

Sharvonique's picture
Submitted by Sharvonique on

The function and the design of the front page are the same thing.
The function of the front page is to convince potential clients that you know how to design, and to get them to click past the front page.

I disagree. I meant "functionality" in the sense of usability and navigation. The navigation of a website and the way it’s designed are two completely different things in my book.

You seem to be talking more about the purpose of the front page, and I don't think it's necessarily the purpose of the front page to show you know how to design. Rather, the site overall and the work on the site shows you know how to design. I see the front page more as a teaser to make someone interested in looking at the rest of your site.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with intro text on the first page, as long as it's brief. For people who stumble upon your site and don't know who you are or what you're offering, it's just a nice little way to introduce yourself.

Harvey Human's picture

I don't think it's necessarily the purpose of the front page to show you know how to design.

If you are selling yourself as a designer (and illustrator), as Evans is, then the main purpose of the front page is indeed to show that you know how to design (and illustrate).

Rather, the site overall and the work on the site shows you know how to design.

If the front page isn't designed/illustrated well, people will not enter the site.

I see the front page more as a teaser to make someone interested in looking at the rest of your site.

Again, this is a design shop, so they need to "tease" with design.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with intro text on the first page, as long as it's brief. For people who stumble upon your site and don't know who you are or what you're offering, it's just a nice little way to introduce yourself.

"Don't know who you are or what you're offering"? The place is called EvansVisualArts Creative Studio. There's a big cartoon drawing on the front page. What do people need: an explanation of what it is they're seeing?
Besides, Evans has the "Services" page. That's where that info goes. There's no need to reproduce that same info on the front page.
The words "design," "illustration," and "animation" on the front page are plenty of copy.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

According to what Harvey has to say Splash pages rule! Good on you!

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

Something all of your responding here should do is cruise around the site, these guys aren't selling themlselves as website designers, they are selling characters and graphics. There's a difference.

ScatteredLogical's picture

And over a hundred years of package design says something that doesn't get presented well doesn't fare as well. It's directly analogous.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

These guys have been designing packaging for over a hundred years? Sorry I never picked that up from what they have up.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

What I saw was a couple new designer/artists that want to work on children's projects and want to make some fun stuff that work for their market.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

Why has this thread become such a bone of contention. These guys ask for some help over in Show N Tell and hardly anyone replied. Now Scattered you and Harvey have taken it on as a cause celeb? Why?

ScatteredLogical's picture

I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about a concept which applies to them.

I don't go to the Show and Tell anymore, as I recently mentioned in the mod forum improvement thread, so the "cause célèbre" is an effect of this being a Cafe topic. They asked for critiques and we have friendly and civil people here so they're getting that, but this is the general chat where things are explored. Sharing opinions and/or coming to a consensus about topics is not only perfectly in place here but might be useful to their cause.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about a concept which applies to them.

I don't go to the Show and Tell anymore, as I recently mentioned in the mod forum improvement thread, so the "cause célèbre" is an effect of this being a Cafe topic. They asked for critiques and we have friendly and civil people here so they're getting that, but this is the general chat where things are explored. Sharing opinions and/or coming to a consensus about topics is not only perfectly in place here but might be useful to their cause.

Then why is Topdrawer afraid of posting in the Cafe:
http://forums.awn.com/showthread.php?t=7217

His work is exceptional and he should feel free to post in the cafe. But he doesn't.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

It's these pissing matches that put people off.

ScatteredLogical's picture

Then why is Topdrawer afraid of posting in the Cafe:
http://forums.awn.com/showthread.php?t=7217

His work is exceptional and he should feel free to post in the cafe. But he doesn't.

Maybe because you were his first replies and told him to beware of someone?

I really can't be asked to justify or validate another human being's sensitivity. If he really wanted to post, he'd post. Either he receives criticism as he'd hoped, or he gets some noise from people who should just go in one ear and out the other anyhow.

And it's the talking about stuff that's readily obvious that perpetuates the so-called "matches." We're trying to help in our own way and what we say gets picked apart. There's such a thing as people with different viewpoints sharing those viewpoints and it all coexisting so that someone can take it all in and pick and choose what makes sense to them. If I don't know something, I don't say anything, but if I think I know, I have a right to say that I do if it's in the interest of benefitting someone else without it being second-guessed from the outside just because it's lost on someone else. Even that's fine but just as much, I then have a right to provide clarity when what I say isn't being received as intended.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

So I am the scary person here. Nice to know.

ScatteredLogical's picture

No, you aren't a scary person. "Beware" is a scary word. "Beware of Harvey" is incriminating someone else as a scary person. Are you genuinely missing the connection, overly sensitive, or just trying to rile me now? Rather than take up space just PM me.

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

Ban me for speaking out. I see that day coming soon. I am not the first person that warned others not to get on Harvey's bad side.

Sharvonique's picture

If you are selling yourself as a designer (and illustrator), as Evans is, then the main purpose of the front page is indeed to show that you know how to design (and illustrate).

If the front page isn't designed/illustrated well, people will not enter the site.

Again, this is a design shop, so they need to "tease" with design.

The last thing I want to do is hijack this thread and turn it into a debate. Scott asked about critiques for his website, so we shouldn't get too off track with that purpose, but I'll make my response short.

The intro page is the cover to the website, as with a cover to a book. Yes, the book's cover, title design, etc., may make you interested in reading the book, but it certainly doesn't tell you the whole story. I feel the same way about websites.

"Don't know who you are or what you're offering"? The place is called EvansVisualArts Creative Studio. There's a big cartoon drawing on the front page. What do people need: an explanation of what it is they're seeing?
Besides, Evans has the "Services" page. That's where that info goes. There's no need to reproduce that same info on the front page.
The words "design," "illustration," and "animation" on the front page are plenty of copy.

I was speaking in terms of websites in general. VisualArts Creative Studio does imply it's a creative company, but there's no harm in letting visitors know the studio's specialty from the start. The words "design," "illustration," and "animation" (even the cartoon drawing) don't tell people that the studio is able to do 3D work and that they're geared for children. I'm also able to read quite clearly, so the over-exaggerated bold text is quite unnecessary. ;)

Adding text to the front page or choosing to go with just an image isn't going to make or break the website, but the overall design of the entire site will. I am not an expert website designer, and I am just sharing my own thoughts about the subject in an effort to help Scott with his redesign. Even if you disagree with my views, it doesn't make them wrong or invalid. It's just a different way of doing things. The end goal is still the same - a great website that people will fall in love with and continue to visit for the rest of their lives. :D

Harvey Human's picture

The intro page is the cover to the website, as with a cover to a book. Yes, the book's cover, title design, etc., may make you interested in reading the book, but it certainly doesn't tell you the whole story. I feel the same way about websites.

I am saying the same thing.
The front cover should make you want to check out the back cover, and this requires design.
The front cover is probably not the place for your synopsis and index.

VisualArts Creative Studio does imply it's a creative company, but there's no harm in letting visitors know the studio's specialty from the start. The words "design," "illustration," and "animation" (even the cartoon drawing) don't tell people that the studio is able to do 3D work and that they're geared for children.

The front page's links convey what it is they're able to do.
link: SIGN MAKERS
link: WEB DESIGN
link: 3D DESIGN
or whichever links they want.
The cartoon illustration on the front page shows that their work is kid-friendly.

Even if you disagree with my views, it doesn't make them wrong or invalid.

Well, wrong: yes; invalid: no. :D

Sharvonique's picture

Well, wrong: yes; invalid: no. :D

Hey!? :eek:

I am saying the same thing.
The front cover should make you want to check out the back cover, and this requires design.
The front cover is probably not the place for your synopsis and index.

The front page's links convey what it is they're able to do.
link: SIGN MAKERS
link: WEB DESIGN
link: 3D DESIGN
or whichever links they want.

I think this issue still boils down to designer's preference, but that's OK. I forgive you.

The cartoon illustration on the front page shows that their work is kid-friendly.

There are many adult-oriented animations that appear kid-friendly but really aren't. "Happy Tree Friends" comes to mind...

evansvisualarts's picture

There have been alot of different opinions around (on tis forum and others) but it is all helpful. Our first mistake was to not design a website from scratch. We had flash artwork already made from previous unused projects and we decided to build the website around those.

This is the core of what we've learnt.

Keep it simple and get straight to the point, clearly and without writing a whole section that could be written in a few words.
We're chiefly a cartoon design site for multimedia, we design interactive characters, objects and scenerys to order for web and online game designers. We might not be the best web designers but when it comes to designing animations or characters a cilent wants, we never get bad feedback so we need to get this across clearly. Currently we beleive' Art and Animation for Multimedia' sums this up in a line and then we have the services and about us page to express this in more details, plus the artwork showcased on the index page.

The most important thing on the site for us is the pictures and animation because the way we have worked successfully is to contact potential cilents, tell them what we do and then use our webpage as a online portfolio so most of the time the person viewing knows what we do and really is just checking out to see if our designs are right for them.

The last week has been a big eye opener and we are going to think hard how to get the site right

Thanks

Harvey Human's picture

There are many adult-oriented animations that appear kid-friendly but really aren't. "Happy Tree Friends" comes to mind...

Yes, but we're not talking about an adult entertainment site. We're talking about a cartoon studio. What cartoon studio do you know of that can draw cartoon characters butchering each other, but can't cartoon characters who don't butcher each other?

As for the text, don't put up redundant copy. If you absolutely must have copy, don't write something that is obvious.
If your logo says Creative Studio, then you don't need copy that says "We are a creative studio." If you have a link that say "web design," then you don't need copy that says "We do web design!" If you have a Flash animation on the front page, you don't need copy that says "We ALSO do Flash animations!!!!" etcetera

Sharvonique's picture

Harvey, what are you doing!? Scott's post was the perfect ending to this thread. Now it just seems like you're nit-picking. I'm not talking about an adult entertainment site either, or studio's who can't create cartoon characters who don't butcher each other. I was referring more to studios who don't want to create cartoon characters who don't butcher each other. You can't just tell by the image alone is my point. Gee-whiz Harvey, you're relentless!! :p

phacker's picture
Submitted by phacker on

I am personally responsible for the text in my copy. I added to the copy the boys had on their original site. I was trying to make it fit the concept I came up with. It wasn't their's.

They are trying to put up a site and make a little money, and some of you are trying to hold them by higher standards than you probably hold yourselves.

Harvey Human's picture

Harvey, what are you doing!? ...
Now it just seems like you're nit-picking. ...
Gee-whiz Harvey, you're relentless!! :p

I thought we were trying to help Evans with his website design, Sharvon. I'm sorry if I've been too aggressive. :o
I will try to be more objective.

Since you responded to my point, I'll respond to yours:

I'm not talking about an adult entertainment site either

You brought up adult entertainment sites when you brought Happy Tree Friends into your argument.

[quote=Harvey Human] [quote=Sharvonique]The words "design," "illustration," and "animation" (even the cartoon drawing) don't tell people that the studio is ... geared for children.

The cartoon illustration on the front page shows that their work is kid-friendly.

There are many adult-oriented animations that appear kid-friendly but really aren't. "Happy Tree Friends" comes to mind...[/quote]Yes, but we're not talking about an adult entertainment site. We're talking about a cartoon studio. What cartoon studio do you know of that can draw cartoon characters butchering each other, but can't [draw] cartoon characters who don't butcher each other?[/quote] Your argument seems to be that - unless Evans explains that he specializes in children's entertainment - clients might assume that Evans can only make violent adult content like Happy Tree Friends.

I'm just trying to say that it's obvious that cartoonists can make kid-friendly cartoons, even though their websites don't have the words "KID-FRIENDLY" stamped on their front pages.

I hope that clears things up.

best buddies forever,
HH:)

Sharvonique's picture

That clears things up, and I see your point. I didn't mean that kid-friendly had to be mentioned on their site. If they decide to add text, it just could be one of the things mentioned if that's their specialty. I didn't mean it to be redundant or blatantly obvious. BBF! :)

Pages