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Why Is Drawing so IMPORTANT??

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Why Is Drawing so IMPORTANT??

Why is drawing sooo important?.Can't somebody specialise in drawing while the other person do digital animation.Is it really used when u work?? plus must you be good at it for digital animation.Cause why go all the way drawing when you can imagine and do.Thats what i normally do so far.....

gamecon90's picture
Imagination is much more important then knowledge...

Imagination is much more important then knowledge...

There probably is a mile-long answer to that. It might be helpful first to see some of your creations, maybe.

If you're doing digital 2D, naturally it's important.
If all you're doing is modeling and animating 3D, it's not as important. You wouldn't need to be a figure drawing expert in order to move Shrek around.
However, being able to quickly sketch out an idea is extremely useful. Sometimes it's easier to do a 5 second doodle than try to explain something verbally.
Personally, when I 3D animate, I find it extremely helpful to sketch key poses first. For me, it's a big time-saver.

Ya but itz not that important...rite?

Ya but itz not that important...rite? I mean i can draw but itz shit on paper.It helps rite but not a must need for digital animation rite?

Imagination is much more important then knowledge...

Ask whichever professional you want, they'll tell you drawing is supremely important. It will help you develop an eye for motion and anatomy detail. Personally, I think it's also a much more direct way to approach the ideas inside your head. All you need to draw is a piece of paper and a pencil, which you can take almost anywhere, whereas computer equipment will weigh you down with expensive, stationary hardware.
What's more, if you can't capture the images in your head on paper there's a fair chance you won't be able to capture them digitally, either - unless you're somehow extremely talented in that area (but we'd have to see some of your work to judge that).

What's more, if you can't capture the images in your head on paper ...

You have paper in your head? ;)

Yup. I'm really a golem, see, but instead of having a life-giving scroll of parchment placed underneath my tongue they shoved it inside mah noggin'.

Vry nice...

Vry nice...........................now what....

Imagination is much more important then knowledge...

The short and easy answer is - draw. There isn't a downside to it as far as animation is concerned.

Yaaaa...

Damn,this is gonna be 1 heck of a month.

Imagination is much more important then knowledge...

Is drawing skill important?

I have noticed that those who claim that drawing isn't important are generally those who can't draw. Believe it or not, this includes many so-called art teachers in colleges and universities. Maybe they're right, but I've never met anyone with drawing ability who said "Damn, I wish I couldn't draw!"

Nothing is impossible!

What else?

Hi everyone, I'm gamecon90's friend that is interested in Digital Animation. So, Besides drawing, what else is important? I would like to know all the facts. :)

Welcome to AWN Marksman. Read the stickies at the top they will fill you in on a lot of the issues you will face if you choose to be an animator.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

(That if you test two people with equal software skills, but one lacks drawing skills that the other has--and you test them on the quality of their art, who will do the better job?)

I'll have to disagree with you, Ken.

I can't draw very well. I will never be able to knock out a great character sketch like many people on this forum do so effortlessly, (I'd love to though!), but being a good draughtsman does not necessarily make you a good animator!

Animation is about performance, timing, emotion, character and experience. Everyone here works differently - some will thumb everything, some nothing, and most are in between. Previous posters are right in that drawing is great to help you quickly externalise your ideas, but that's not the same thing.

K

I'll have to disagree with you, Ken.

I can't draw very well. I will never be able to knock out a great character sketch like many people on this forum do so effortlessly, (I'd love to though!), but being a good draughtsman does not necessarily make you a good animator!

Animation is about performance, timing, emotion, character and experience. Everyone here works differently - some will thumb everything, some nothing, and most are in between. Previous posters are right in that drawing is great to help you quickly externalise your ideas, but that's not the same thing.

K

That's animation--just movement.
What about composition, sillhouette values, line quality ( on linear forms), light/shade/colour values etc?
Just being able to move something per se, might work out well for a job, but not so well for a career. We can pretty much train monkeys to animate--okay, at least take the layman off the street and train them to use their associated visual memory to emulate movements seen in the natural world. That's just part of the equation--what happens when genres change to something that not just movement, but creation?
Its like training to be JUST an inbetweener in 2d--limited career prospects.
Being an "animator" might mean only moving the vectors on some rigged 3D form, or it might mean someone tasked with creating other visuals as well.
If its the later, you need to genuine artist skills to pull that off.

I see a LOT of horrid 3D animation--too stiff and clunky.
Its horrid because the animators get too locked into the rigged forms they have and dont know how to "cheat" their animation.
That insight mostly comes from drawing, knowing when to "pop" an action because drawing it out simply conveys physics that don't "work" under normal circumstances.

I mantain that if you ask a 2D and 3D animator to do a character acting an extreme cartoon "take", that the 2D animator will be able to pull it off better simply because of the nature that drawing implies.
I haven't seen a extreme take done right in 3D yet--and those that have been done OBVIOUSLY had to use 2D ( or 2D experience) as reference.

But I digress, both mediums have their strengths, but my adamant feelings are that to take fullest advantage of the 3D medium, one needs drawing skills. Cannot say it plainer than that.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

it's not that it's important

it's just that is so much FUN.

well in any case, tell you a secret.

your sense of appreciation of something you don't know
how to do is deepened when you try doing it.

it's all about appreciation.
of other people. of yourself

Don't worry.  All shall be well.

That's animation--just movement.
What about composition, sillhouette values, line quality ( on linear forms), light/shade/colour values etc?

I deem these things inherent in the animation process. A person is able to evaluate these aspects of an image and make creative decisions without the ability to recreate them traditionally. I count myself in this.

Just being able to move something per se, might work out well for a job, but not so well for a career. We can pretty much train monkeys to animate--okay, at least take the layman off the street and train them to use their associated visual memory to emulate movements seen in the natural world.

I don't really see what you are getting at here. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are saying that a 3D animator doesn't really understand the motivation behind the movements they create. That's all down to training and experience, like anything else! Aren't you denigrating computer animation simply because the tool has made the medium more accessible and less exclusive?

I see a LOT of horrid 3D animation--too stiff and clunky.
Its horrid because the animators get too locked into the rigged forms they have and dont know how to "cheat" their animation. That insight mostly comes from drawing, knowing when to "pop" an action because drawing it out simply conveys physics that don't "work" under normal circumstances.

You're absolutely right - there is a lot of bad 3D animation out there. There is also a boat load of bad traditional/stop-mo/paper cutout animation out there too. People get better through experience and training. It doesn't happen overnight. When people are learning computer animation it is easy to start with a simple rig of bones and get most of the basics in there. Have you ever rigged a character? It is the hardest part of the 3D pipeline by a long way. Advanced controls take a while to implement and this is why they are not usually used most of the time.

I mantain that if you ask a 2D and 3D animator to do a character acting an extreme cartoon "take", that the 2D animator will be able to pull it off better simply because of the nature that drawing implies.
I haven't seen a extreme take done right in 3D yet--and those that have been done OBVIOUSLY had to use 2D ( or 2D experience) as reference.

So you're telling me that if you and I sat down to do a take on two different shots yours would automatically be better because you would use a pencil and I would use a computer? Um, doesn't it come down to talent? I would craft poses (probably on a frame-by-frame basis for a quick take) in a similar way that you would draw them.

I've seen extreme takes done brilliantly in computer animation, as I assume have you, since you mention the ones done right that had to use 2D reference. That is an assumption on your part, and even if it is true, why does that make it any less valid? Isn't the point to perform a lovely exaggerated take as you described? Sounds like it must have worked in order for you to say that, no? We all draw from the same knowledge base, after all.

You're right though - it is "easier" in traditional animation to accomplish this form of extreme movement thanks to the flexibility a drawing can enjoy, but the computer artist can achieve the same results.

K

That's animation--just movement.
What about composition, sillhouette values, line quality ( on linear forms), light/shade/colour values etc?
Just being able to move something per se, might work out well for a job, but not so well for a career. We can pretty much train monkeys to animate--okay, at least take the layman off the street and train them to use their associated visual memory to emulate movements seen in the natural world. That's just part of the equation--what happens when genres change to something that not just movement, but creation?
Its like training to be JUST an inbetweener in 2d--limited career prospects.
Being an "animator" might mean only moving the vectors on some rigged 3D form, or it might mean someone tasked with creating other visuals as well.
If its the later, you need to genuine artist skills to pull that off.

I see a LOT of horrid 3D animation--too stiff and clunky.
Its horrid because the animators get too locked into the rigged forms they have and dont know how to "cheat" their animation.
That insight mostly comes from drawing, knowing when to "pop" an action because drawing it out simply conveys physics that don't "work" under normal circumstances.

I mantain that if you ask a 2D and 3D animator to do a character acting an extreme cartoon "take", that the 2D animator will be able to pull it off better simply because of the nature that drawing implies.
I haven't seen a extreme take done right in 3D yet--and those that have been done OBVIOUSLY had to use 2D ( or 2D experience) as reference.

But I digress, both mediums have their strengths, but my adamant feelings are that to take fullest advantage of the 3D medium, one needs drawing skills. Cannot say it plainer than that.

Hi Ken,

I'm another one that has to disagree with you. Like Kev said, animation is about performance, acting and movement etc. None of that has got anything directly to do with drawings. Just being able to draw well doesn't make you a good animator- not even in drawn animation. "Emulate movement seen in the natural world" is also very difficult and maybe too much for a monkey to do! I have met many average animators who draw every well but can't animate. It is true that you need to have both skills to be a 2d animator but if we are talking about stop motion or computer animation, I don't see why we should be talking about drawing skill the whole time.

Cartoon and extreme movement is not limited to 2d animation at all. Go watch " For the birds", " Ice age2" or "Madagascar"(While you're at it, check out all the Pixar movies.) and you will see what could be done now in terms of cartoon style animation. It's 3d but it's certainly not all "stiff and clunky". Some of the beautiful animation was done by people who haven't done a single day of 2d animation and might not even draw well. There are a lot of new animators working on cg features these days. They understand animation basics as much as any 2d guys and they have just as much knowledge about the history of animation. I don't even know if they can draw well or not. All I know is they are doing some beautiful stuff. To me it is a good thing, if someone has got animation talent and is not into drawings, he or she can still showcase their talent by wroking on cg or stop motion. I love films like " Wallace & Gromit" and "Nightmere before Christmas" too. But don't tell me all the animators who worked on them are top draftmen . I know quite a few of them and I have respect for every single one of them because of the great animation they produced. Whether or not they draw is not important to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love 2d animation and like to draw a little bit myself. After all I spent 20 years working as a 2d animator before I switched to 3d. I worked with some of the best 2d and 3d animators around and all of them have something in common- they all have animation skills, not just drawing skills. In some cases, mostly animation skills.

All these talk about drawing can help your animation is very true but it's not the be all and end all. We animators are actors and performers. We either use our pencils or computer or puppets to act just like live action actors. Are you saying that you have to draw to become an actor? What you have to understand is when someone is animating with the computer, he or she has to animate just like a 2d animator would- create poses; set timing; do lipsync; create facial expression etc. All the animation basics like ovelap. following through; break of joins have to be used here- Just like 2d. You can do squash and stretch too if you like. You toggle your keys just like you flip your drawings. The difference is that you use your mouse and keyboard instead of your pencil. But you animate just the same. There's not an "animation" button you can press to make the character move the way you want it to. It's not "software' skill vs " drawing skill" We are talking animation here.

I would say if you're interested in animation but can't drawing very well, don't give up! You can still be a good animator.

-Paul

Don't get me wrong, I love drawings and I was a 2d animator for 20 year before I switched to 3d. I just don't want people to get the wrong idea about animtion. I'll say if you're interested in animation but can't drawing very well, don't give up! You can still be a good animator.

-Paul

Jeane Claude Van Damme once said he wouldn't have become the action star he was during the 80s and 90s if he hadn't taken ballet lessons in addition to his martial arts training. One benefits from the other and can greatly change the other's style.

For those of you that don't feel drawing is important make sure you post links to your work. Most of you don't have portfolios, and that's understandable since you can't draw, but it would be interesting to see what you have accomplished without the skill of drawing. How about it?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

For those of you that don't feel drawing is important make sure you post links to your work. Most of you don't have portfolios, and that's understandable since you can't draw, but it would be interesting to see what you have accomplished without the skill of drawing. How about it?

Hi Phacker,

You can quote me on this- Drawing is more important for 2d animation than 3d animation. ANIMATION skill is equally important in both. When it comes to cg animation, your animation skill is far more important.
I assume that in your opinion I belong to the group that can't draw and can't accomplish anything. I did have some luck and manage to work as a 2d supervising animator for twenty years and worked on more than ten features films. I don't draw to animate anymore but I have been doing it with my mouse and keyboard for 7 years now and still animate the same way-2d or 3d.

There are a lot of computer animators who accompllshed a lot without the skill of drawing.

By the way, I don't have a website so again you can put me in the group of people that can't draw.

-Paul

Hey Paul, you don't have to have a web site to share your work. You just upload a file and post a link. Doesn't have to be a website.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

What does posting a drawing show how well someone can animate? You'd need a few more than that!

Hee!

It's just that on the internet it's easy to spout off as an expert. If you actually have had success animating without being able to draw, or even attempting to learn how, it would be nice for the rest of us that share our work to see some of yours. If you have a film clip that would be even better.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Posting credits to your work, would serve as well also.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I see, gotcha.

Well, I don't know about Mr Paul, but my credentials and short films are readily available on the interweb.

Best,
K

Kevan, if those sketches you have on your blog are yours you can draw.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Kevan, if those sketches you have on your blog are yours you can draw.

Congratulations to Kev for passing the "Can you draw or not?" test!

Wait! Are those sketches yours? Can you prove it?

That's pretty snide Paul. You only have 3 posts, you haven't shared with any of us what your experience or work is, but you wish to judge. AWN has always been a place to share. If you choose not to, join the ranks of Harvey. He always has a lot to say but shares little if nothing of his own work.

It's not a requirement, just a request. We get a lot of new folks here just starting out, it would be nice if you could show by example why they should or shouldn't do certain things.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

That's pretty snide Paul. You only have 3 posts, you haven't shared with any of us what your experience or work is, but you wish to judge. AWN has always been a place to share. If you choose not to, join the ranks of Harvey. He always has a lot to say but shares little if nothing of his own work.

It's not a requirement, just a request. We get a lot of new folks here just starting out, it would be nice if you could show by example why they should or shouldn't do certain things.

I don't wish to judge. I only have an opinion to share. This is what a forum is about. No one needs to submit their work or cv to have an opinion. I never claimed to be an expert at all. I'm just someone who is making a living in animation and though I could share my thoughts with others here. You can agree or disagree. That's fine. New folks who are starting out will decide if an advice is good or not without checking out examples of someone's work or credentails first.

By the way, it was not the first time I shared a joke with Kevan. i'm sorry that you got offended.

-Paul

No one needs to submit their work or cv to have an opinion.

No, you can't give an opinion on something until you've done it yourself, and done it well; which is why I'm opening a restaurant, directing a feature film, producing an album, and running for President.

Cheers!

Harvman:D

No, you can't give an opinion on something until you've done it yourself, and done it well; which is why I'm opening a restaurant, directing a feature film, producing an album, and running for President.

Cheers!

Harvman:D

Cheers Harvey! Your post made me laugh so much! Thanks!

-Paul

What a debate....

Wow,what a debate....It's interesting to see the battle of the minds take place here.So drawing is a should have skill but not a must have,right? I'm sure many people have different opinions and i would like to thank those who adviced/expressed based on their feeling....

Imagination is much more important then knowledge...

Wow, Theres plenty of debate alright. I wonder how much we'll learn from here... :D

.

.

.

.

That definitely explains a lot of uncomfortable situations. Thanks for the excuse! :)

I Agree With Ken!!!

I agree wholeheartedly with Ken. I have to say from my years of experience in the field (30) and from years teaching (25) I don't know anyone who has gone very far in the industry who doesn't draw.

In fact, there is such a direct correlation its amazing.

I have seen many- way too many students who enlist at a school or a university who can't draw and who depend on a limp pencil or worse yet a computer... NOTHING against pencils or computers. I can be VERY sad.

As Glenn Vilppu says- "an animator who doesn't draw is like an actor without legs...."

You have to be able to draw!

Don't kid yourself.

Since Gamecon doesn't seem to understand what kind of animation it is he wants to do, it's difficult to tell him how essential drawing is or isn't. ("Digital animation" can mean anything from scanned hand-drawn to CGI FX.)
For example, certainly drawing is a more essential skill for the animators of Venture Bros (hand-drawn) than it is for the animators of Robot Chicken (stop-motion).

Some thoughts on the subject

Well after reading through this discussion, it seems obvious that drawing is important to some people and not important to others. It's VERY important to me because I love doing it. Drawing has always come natural to me. Even as a kid, I didn't understand why everybody couldn't do it.

My drawing talent provided some enviable privileges when I was in grade school. I remember many occasions when the teacher would allow me to spend time painting scenery for a play or drawing colored chalk murals for Christmas, Halloween, or Thanksgiving holidays on the blackboards (they were black in those days, not green) while everybody else in the class had to continue with the lessons.

My first free-lance commission occurred when I was still in the fourth grade. The client was the school bully. The terms of the agreement were as follows: I would draw for him a series of pornographic pictures, in return for which, he would NOT break my fingers.

I have to confess however, that even after almost forty years as an art professor in a university, I'm still not sure why so many people can't draw and so few can. I suspect it has to do with the ability to visualize, to actually see with closed eyes, and to focus first on the most general and basic form of the subject before getting lost in the details. A book by Betty Edwards titled "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" presents an interesting theory about the subject.

Nothing is impossible!

I still feel if you want a role in animation you need to take drawing courses. Perhaps, you'll never master the skills if all you want is a management position, but you will learn to see what is important and understand the effort of the employees that perform in that area. You'll be more realistic in what you request as far as graphics because you understand a little more of the difficulty in perfecting certain looks.

Don't ever fall into the trap that the computer can do it for you. There's always a person behind that keyboard and mouse.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Don't ever fall into the trap that the computer can do it for you. There's always a person behind that keyboard and mouse.

You're absolutely right Phacker, and that person can animate.

I love drawing, and doodle everyday. It is not a necessity for my daily role in production, however. Some people thumb everything, some nothing, and there is no correlation between drawing and animation quality at this level.

- K, The Legless Animator.

But if management can't or doesn't want to understand the effort behind those animators maybe thats the biggest reason animation sometimes falls below the level anyone wants to watch.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

an excellent point; can't be too careful!

Wait! Are those sketches yours? Can you prove it?

Kevan, can you hook up a web cam to prove that it's you drawing?
Make sure to have a photo ID handy.

Can you also provide a signed and notarized letter from Steven Spielberg confirming that you worked on Over the Hedge?
thank you

All wise asses aside, for the new folks here be careful who's advice you accept at gospel. I for one feel a lot more comfortable accepting advice from someone that has posted examples of their work and or credentials.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Kevan has some pretty impressive credentials. I just wasn't sure the pictures posted there were his or a friends. His friend Mark has some awesome talent. So get off your high horse Harvey and show us some of your work.

He posts a link to the films he's worked on:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1442728/

Where's your's Harvey and Paul?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Kevan, can you hook up a web cam to prove that it's you drawing?
Make sure to have a photo ID handy.

Can you also provide a signed and notarized letter from Steven Spielberg confirming that you worked on Over the Hedge?
thank you

Hee hee!

Back to the topic, and to the young chap that started the thread:

No, you don't have to be able to draw like a Disney master, but depending on how you work it may help you visualise animation planning. All animators share a common knowledge base and it is how you use and experiment with these ideas that will allow you to grow as an animator, regardless of what medium you employ.

K

PS If you have no interest in the technical side of computer animation, then you do not need to know C++. I know a bit and have not used it since leaving university.

PPS All images on my blog are my own unless credited otherwise... :)

By the way, is your avatar sketch from your work on Madagascar?

By the way, is your avatar sketch from your work on Madagascar?

I tend to doodle sketches of the characters I'm working on. It doesn't have any relevance to the production other than that!

:)

For those of you that don't feel drawing is important make sure you post links to your work. Most of you don't have portfolios, and that's understandable since you can't draw, but it would be interesting to see what you have accomplished without the skill of drawing. How about it?

sorry to step in in the very middle of this whole thing, but I do have an opinion. :)

I can't draw very well at all, but I can animate..

I know many people who can draw ONLY to the level of being able to say "look, here's a curve.. there's a circle for the head.. etc." But you watch them animate and holy crap, their stuff is amazing.

So my opinion is.. drawing helps, but it's certainly not necessary to be a good animator. Having a sense of weight, timing, posing, composition.. those are important to have as an animator.

oh yeah, and here's my reel (not my latest.. it's missing a few movies):
http://www.jonhandhisdog.com/movies/jschleiferReel.mov

and as for PFC.. I see his work on a daily basis and the man CAN animate. And he can draw. And he's got many many many many years behind him as a 2d and 3d artist.
period. :)

Before I wait for 24 megs to download, what about telling me a little bit about what it is I am waiting for? And PFC where is his work on view and what exactly is he doing. Would be nice to know. And if he can draw, why is he promoting to new people that it's not a necessary skill?

Is he such a bigshot that he can hire new folks that don't understand basic animation concepts or know how to draw? If so he could harvest quite a few right here that want to hear that.

How does he select his new hires based on education, applied skills, experience? I think that something everyone wants to know.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

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