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animation hybrids

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animation hybrids

THANKS ALL POST NOW CLOSED THANKS TO ALL FOR TRYING TO HELP

Hi,
my names Stefan John Costain. I have been studying software for the arts and media for over six years now and am currently finishing my final year in Hatfield (Herts uni). I have a essay to write which I have to hand in very soon.
Im very keen on animation and hope to develop a career in this area. Because of this Im choosing animation as my topic for my essay. Obviously this is a broad topic so I am aiming at the specific topic of mixed animation types (e.g.2D&3D) but more specifically mixed with live-action.
I have had meetings with my tutors and they have suggested:-
----looking at works and careers of - Paul Wells, George Melies, Winsor McKay, J.Stuart Blackton, Tom gunning and Andrew Darley.
Im just emailing to ask if anyone can help me:-
----arise any issues or ideas surrounding my subject area. Any quotes ect that I could base an argument around
----suggest any other animators that would be good to research
----any other help
[B]
I need to find issues, arguements, subjects within the area of animation hybrids. Any suggestions??[/B]

Thank To Everyone!!!

Sorry I wen't missing for two years. Thanks to everyone who posted suggestions and help to this site. Don't really know why but I can't remember returning to the site to read the feedback but this was probably because I had another major project at the time designing a small virtual world in which the user uses the mouse and arrow key to navigate around so as you can imagine this together with a ruddy eassy was very time consuming and alot to handle at once. Can't think of any other reason for my non-return. The eassy wen't ok....ish.
Thanks again tho 2 all!!

Phacker off Phacker

I think if you want to be a part of AWN you owe all of us an apology for your tone. You posted, and then never got back to your thread until today. Want to be a part of the community try and interact a little more, and be more reasonable when others don't agree with your point of view.

Your one an only thread was this one, and you spammed all the forums with it. You should learn some net etiquette.

By the way phacker. U can Phacker off with your comment!... only joking. But I wasn't talking to all the nice people that posted normal reasonable comments back... just the few people that started calling me lazy and stuff just because they got upset that I didn't return to their ruddy forum site.
I can understand if people replied and had no answer from me that they might get a bit fed up about it but there isn't any need for rudeness which is what I found from some people.

Once again to all those who wasn't rude and replied trying to help...
A BIG THANK U!!!

If it helps, one "hybrid" which comes to mind is cel shading, or the process of making 3D generated animation look like traditional animation through the use of character outlines and reduced shaders, conveying a "flatter" impression of the three-dimensionally rendered characters. As I see it, cel shading these days is predominantly used in video game animation (Ultimate Spider-Man and Sly Raccoon 3 being recent titles using it). While it gets across some of the flair of traditional animation, some say that it doesn't convey the fluidity and flexibility of hand-drawn animation to the same degree due to it still being based on somewhat "stiffer" 3D models that are harder to squash and stretch digitally. (It's possible, but work and cost intensive.)

I wish I could be of some help. Try and get copys of the work done by the list of names given to you. You are in your final year at your school so you know the craft. You can do, breath, relax, and eat pizza. :D

It's not likely we're gonna hear from this guy again. He's some student trying to find his college thesis done for him on the Internet, cut 'n paste and graduate. Nice of him to plaster his request in eight different forums and then boogie off to eat his Cheerios.

Good call SpaceGhost. When I think back to the beginning of hybrids I remember Gene Kelley and dancing with the mouse or some of the stuff in BedKnobs and Broomsticks. But hey he should rent some films and come up with his own conclusions.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

It's not likely we're gonna hear from this guy again. He's some student trying to find his college thesis done for him on the Internet, cut 'n paste and graduate. Nice of him to plaster his request in eight different forums and then boogie off to eat his Cheerios.

Yep another dweeb that wants someone to do his homework for him.

Of course he left it to the last minute....

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Hmph, and a spammer to boot.

I have a bunch of info for you, but first you must delete this same thread that you created in every other forum.

That is such bad BBS etiquette. :(

Here's One!!!

Hello.

I was recently talking to a producer and he rightfully mused... why can't someone develop a 3D interface that is easy to use- especially easy for 2D animator swho have the animation experience and want to do 3D.

To me FLIPBOOK is easy- and I like easy- it took very little time to learn and use this on my film - for pencil tesing, digital ink and paint, everything!

WHAT CAN'T SOMEONE DEVELOP A REALLY USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE!

Thanks.

Hello.

I was recently talking to a producer and he rightfully mused... why can't someone develop a 3D interface that is easy to use- especially easy for 2D animator swho have the animation experience and want to do 3D.

To me FLIPBOOK is easy- and I like easy- it took very little time to learn and use this on my film - for pencil tesing, digital ink and paint, everything!

WHAT CAN'T SOMEONE DEVELOP A REALLY USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE!

Thanks.

I still wont a talent button on my software. :D

I think the user interface complexity of programs is based in large parts on the capacities of computers. Basically, our computers still only understand "0" and "1", or "no" and "yes". So what we're dealing with is an accumulation of switches, and the more complex the operation, the more switches one needs.
One day, in maybe twenty years from now, I'm sure there will at least be prototypes of animation computers capable of interpreting hand-drawn images and convert them into three-dimensional ones. I read somewhere the people at Pixar use hand-drawn images projected over their 3D models to model facial expressions - once computers get "smart" enough to take care of that interpretation process, it could speed up whole productions enormously. What's more, the same technology could be applied to have computers create perfect inbetweens for traditional animation, thus making the difficult process of cleanup a lot easier and faster.

The shorts you are thinking of were called "Alice tales" I think, not "Alice in Wonderland." Right shorts, just got the name mixed up.

I actually think there are more TV commercials using animated characters with live action there there are movies. Think Frosted Flakes.

Aloha,
the Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

Thinking 2D- Ape

Hello Ape,

Don't tell anyone but I ALREADY KNOW THAT STUFF!

Someone should think the 2D animation process and create a way to use that process in an interface for 3D.

Okay brace yourself world...
The whole graph editor thing is a technology at it's worst.-
Hoe about a really user friendly environment where one just sets the keys (like 2D- so easy) ...and uses a timing chart for the slo-outs and slo-ins...and then just draws the arcs for the actons- wouldn't that be easier and faster!

Anyhow - this fellow wanted something out of the box- Here it is!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.

Thats it Funston, the "Alice Comedies." Thanks for looking that up.

I think you're in the wrong thread Larry. I think you might want this one
http://forums.awn.com/showthread.php?t=4261

As for the style of animating you want to do, I think that's kinad how quite a few of us are animating. I learned this way from my current mentor, Jason Ryan. He doesn't touch the Graph editor unless he need really subtle movement. He just moves the model, sets up his golden poses, then does the keys, then the breakdowns and so on till he's has keys on ever two or three frames. He also came from a traditional background. He worked as an animator for Bluth. Although, I do agree that it could still be made way more simple.

Aloha,
the Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

The problem is that your computer can't know what planes your arcs are in unless you tell it. In linear perspective, there is a built-in ambiguity between "up" and "back". A linear perspective construction is the projection of three dimensions onto two. This projection is irreversible --- you can't get three from two _unambiguously_. In other words, if you have an object in a perspective drawing, there's no way to tell whether it's smaller and higher up or bigger and further back.

We interpret perspective drawings because we're accustomed to a set of conventions. The computer can't "know" whether a given object is a tree or a cow. Writing a program that could do this is an artificial intelligence problem --- a research problem rather than an exercise, to paraphrase Donald Knuth (a famous computer scientist).

It's possible to draw confusing perspective drawings that are nonetheless correct. It's also possible to make "trick" drawings that exploit the above-mentioned ambiguity: M.C. Escher was a master at this.

In addition, I am very nearly certain that the perspective in many drawings that we find convincing is not correct. In _The Fleischer Story_, Leslie Cabarga mentioned talking to animators who had done rotoscoping. They said that you got shapes that you'd never have imagined. I find this entirely plausible: the drawings are correct, but don't fit in with the conventions we've learned.

So, I'm afraid I don't think that what you want is possible. However, someone may yet prove me wrong.

Laurence

Maybe someday someone will program a computer to work with animators/artists. Your reply just made my head ache, but yeah, I basically know the arguments, doesn't make it any easier though. And maybe that's why 2d and the written word still exist, because it is something those of us who use technology that are hindered can related to it. I know they prophesied the printed word would disappear back in the 1980s. Actually with the computer and the internet. The printed word is more important than ever. And until there is a gui that can let us mold and create stuff like we can with clay or pencil, many of us will rely on hybrids. Not hybrid in the sense you meant.

I had to take some 3d classes and qualify in my rehab prog. Didn't mean I liked it. I fought making my first fork, or animating my first scene. I still think a true 3d animator should make their own characters/forks, but what I see around here are a lot of models designed by someone else being pushed around.

That amounts to Jim Henson using someone else's puppets. Would his stuff have been as good?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

When I learned 3d modeling, the fork was one of the first things we had to do, the second was a wine glass half full. Don't know what you guys have to do now. We also had to texture and light each model. I understand now seperate people do that.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Another excellent book, David Salomon's _Computer Graphics and Geometric Modeling_, states that the purpose of computer graphics is to create photorealistic images. This may seem like a reasonable goal for a programmer, and I suppose it's useful for people doing special effects, but it's not what I want at all, at least not most of the time.

Laurence

Is that what the purpose is, I thought it was like any tool, to help the artists convey their message. What if their message isn't photorealistic, what then? I think this is the big divide.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I think this is what set's the artist apart. They don't look to create a piece by committee. They are conveying an idea. Where as the software community and advertising and marketing folks work by committee, trying to reach the largest most profitable market. And if crayon will do it an artist will use it even if it's not the most popular choice of the day.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Hello.

I was recently talking to a producer and he rightfully mused... why can't someone develop a 3D interface that is easy to use- especially easy for 2D animator swho have the animation experience and want to do 3D.

To me FLIPBOOK is easy- and I like easy- it took very little time to learn and use this on my film - for pencil tesing, digital ink and paint, everything!

WHAT CAN'T SOMEONE DEVELOP A REALLY USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE!

Thanks.

You should check out AnimationMentor.com. They have really easy to use rigs for Maya. I'm not sure what you mean by interface, but the only thing I really use is the timeline to set keys and the rotate, translate and scale functions to move the model around. Pretty simple and basic, and I was able to pick it up in a couple of weeks.

Aloha,
the Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

Sorry

Hi all thanks for everyone reply. Sorry I didn't get back to the forums! Stefan

to all people calling me a lazy student you can shut it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I worked very hard for that essay and just didn't have time to visit the sites I posted mi message on. So once again shut ya face!!!!!
To all other people thank you for replying to the messages and sorry I didn't reply myself!!!!

I think if you want to be a part of AWN you owe all of us an apology for your tone. You posted, and then never got back to your thread until today. Want to be a part of the community try and interact a little more, and be more reasonable when others don't agree with your point of view.

Your one an only thread was this one, and you spammed all the forums with it. You should learn some net etiquette.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

How did you paper turn out Stefan?

Aloha,
the Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."