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Disney or Miyazaki...!!!

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Disney or Miyazaki...!!!

hi pals,

I just wanna hear from you...whom you consider the best Disney or Miyazaki.... i love both of their work very much...but i believe Miyazaki is more good in making stories while Disney went for old stories....Disney concentated on telling the story to the kids...while works from Miyazaki are also for adults( i am NOT telling that Disney features cant b appreciated by adults..ok ?)...But ofcourse Disney was the person responsible for taking animation into new levels...n....MIYAZAKI..is a japanese treasure....well...luv to hear from you all...byeee...take care..

regards
Windchimes

Why is this a sticky, to remind us all that we get into pointless discussions?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I never described Disney as "a run-of-the-mill executive."

He spent his day running a studio, producing up to 20 films a year, dealing with distributors, and managing his employees.

Yeah, maybe not in so many words...

You seem to want to make arguments out of nothing.

Dude, I didn't start the argument...

First you say it's not fair to say Walt wasn't a writer because he was a "story man," then you say that story men aren't writers.

And to save you the trouble of reiteration, I'll say it again: we agree on the main point.

When's the last time you saw a "Month of Plympton" on Cartoon Network?

When was the last time Miyazaki animated an entire feature by himself? Plympton's done it at least four times.

When was the last time Miyazaki animated an entire feature by himself? Plympton's done it at least four times.

Unfortunately, none of them have enough story to hold an audience's interest for that long. I've always enjoyed Plympton's animation, but it would be nice if he worked with some other writers (or "story men," if you prefer).

Actually, I haven't seen his latest one that had Paul Giamatti voicing one of the characters--that may have potential.

Yeah, maybe not in so many words...

Again, just because I didn't list all of Disney's achievements doesn't mean I regard him as a "run-of-the-mill executive."
If I'd said, "Disney liked ice cream," I can see you retaliating, [I]"How dare you describe Disney as a simple ice cream-eater. He did so much more than eat ice cream."

[/I]Besides that, a "run-of-the-mill executive" does not do all the things that I described Disney doing. What "run-of-the-mill executive" heads an entire large animation studio and produces 20 films a year? A "run-of-the-mill executive" sits at his desk, romances clients, and makes Powerpoint presentations.

Next time, please find something less petty to start an argument about. ;)

Dude, I didn't start the argument...

Black is white, up is down, and DSB doesn't start arguments.

I wonder what the question "Disney or Myazaki?" should mean.
Who makes/made better animated movies? Whose animators' animation and design techniques are better? Whose movies are artistically more, well, "stimulating" at the moment? Ever? Compare the recent fame of an inspirational Asian director to the ground-breaking achievements in animation fuelled by the enthusiasm of an American who saw more in the medium than anybody before him? That sounds like a whole bunch of questions all wanting individual answers.
The term "Disney", at least in the Western hemisphere, means so much more than just the man and his vision. It's theme parks, one of the greatest entertainment corporations ever, brand names, the Nine Old Men, Carl Barks, Glen Keane and so on and so on. Can we really compare "the man" Walter Elias Disney and "the man" Hayao Myazaki? They're decades apart and while one creates enchanting movies now, I doubt they would've been possible without the advances in animation filmmaking inspired, overseen and orchestrated by Disney and his leading people. In turn, Disney artists today are inspired by Myazaki.
So what do we do now, compare the "brand Disney" and the "brand Myazaki"? What does this tell us about their achievements? I'm not a fan of generalisations. Some are quick to call times "better" or "worse", forgetting that either way they're doing the advances of a given time injustice.

Originally posted by DSB
When was the last time Miyazaki animated an entire feature by himself? Plympton's done it at least four times.

It's true that Miyazaki never animated an entire feature all by himself but the amount of work that would require would be crazy. Also he insists to keep computer usage at a minimum in his movies so most cells are hand-painted and the backgrounds are hand-painted and not computer generated. He paints backgrounds and draws cells. Plus he redraws all the scenes that he thinks doesn't work out that well by himself, he's a major part of the whole animation process while most would let their animators do all the work.

If this is a discussion about Walt and Miyazaki, why are we talking about Plympton?:D

Actually, I haven't seen his latest one that had Paul Giamatti voicing one of the characters--that may have potential.

Interesting that you should mention this one. I've seen it a couple of times, and it is a departure for Plympton. Giamatti does the narration, and the story is by someone else. It's an excellent short.

I like Plympton's earlier stuff, but his last few shorts (before Fan and the Flower) didn't really do it for me. This one, however, is very good.

If I'd said, "Disney liked ice cream," I can see you retaliating, "How dare you describe Disney as a simple ice cream-eater. He did so much more than eat ice cream."

Yeah, I can see how you'd see that...

Black is white, up is down, and DSB doesn't start arguments.

Didn't say I don't start arguments; I said I didn't start this argument.

Black is white, up is down, and when confronted with his own words, Harvey doesn't resort to literalism.

;) right back atcha...

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Can we really compare "the man" Walter Elias Disney and "the man" Hayao Myazaki?

Of course we can't, there are too many variables between the two. This is just a pointless discussion that will end with no winners.:D
Even if Miyazaki was influenced by Osamu Tezuka who in turn was influenced by Walt Disney, I still prefer Miyazaki's movies over Disney's.

Didn't say I don't start arguments; I said I didn't start this argument.

Black is white, up is down, and when confronted with his own words, Harvey doesn't resort to literalism.

Maybe you're delusional, maybe you're fibbing, but any non-delusional non-liar can scroll up to see that you indeed did start the argument.

argument, noun,
a discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a dispute

You were the first to refute something that the other said, meaning you instigated the argument (post #8).

You were the first to bring personal insults into the debate (post #10).

Welcome to reality.

DSB, Harvey, let me quote Star Wars here when I say, "This bickering is pointless". (And to my mind, totally besides the initial question; quite sayin' something considering I already expressed my doubts as to what the initial question is about.)
As far as I'm concerned, take your very personal differences somewhere else, please. Preferably PMs.

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
As far as I'm concerned, take your very personal differences somewhere else, please.

I have to agree. This discussion isn't about DSB vs Harvey Human. It would make an interesting animation clip with a little extra imagination but no. This is about Disney and Miyazaki.:D

Back to our discussion. I believe Miyazaki is better because he actually came up with original storylines for some of his films. When he does base his movie on a story, it's a story that most people have never heard of (like Howl's Moving Castle). Disney took old stories and changed them slightly to suit the movie. However Miyazaki tried to make his movies suited to all audiences while Disney had only children in mind. It's hard to do a movie suited to everyone and keep even adults' attention even though the story is about children's monsters(Totoro) or something. Miyazaki always tries to bring a new storyline, one that has never been heard of before and keep everyone's attention.:D

Yeah, well, no one is making up stuff about what you guys said and believe.
If someone claimed that you said things that you hadn't, you might defend yourselves also.

Heathen, those are all good points in your last post, but I still think it's ridiculous to compare the two.
One was a businessman. The other is an artist.
One had a huge impact on the industry, and it's much too early to tell how great an impact the other will have.

I agree with DSB on one thing: it's extremely silly to make such a silly subject a sticky.
I can see having an Amer-anim vs. Jap-anim sticky, but a Disney vs. Miyazaki sticky is highly retarded.

a Disney vs. Miyazaki sticky is highly retarded.

No offense, Ape. You're doing a great job overall. :o

Back to our discussion. I believe Miyazaki is better because he actually came up with original storylines for some of his films. When he does base his movie on a story, it's a story that most people have never heard of (like Howl's Moving Castle). Disney took old stories and changed them slightly to suit the movie. However Miyazaki tried to make his movies suited to all audiences while Disney had only children in mind. It's hard to do a movie suited to everyone and keep even adults' attention even though the story is about children's monsters(Totoro) or something. Miyazaki always tries to bring a new storyline, one that has never been heard of before and keep everyone's attention.:D

It's well known that Disney chose old fairy tales and folktales that were in the public domain for most of his studio's work in order to hold his overhead down, but that doesn't mean that his only target was children.

When he was starting the industry, the world was a simpler place and PG, R, and X ratings weren't even on the horizon. Adults and children both enjoyed the stories. They were familiar and family. Violence was minimal even in film noir, married couples slept in twin beds, it was a different society, so comparing the two is pointless.

And I'd still like to know why this is a sticky?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Originally Posted by Animated Ape
I think a better comparison would be between Miyazaki and John Lassetter.

I have to agree with Animated Ape. This discussion between Miyazaki and Disney isn't that good because there are too many things that get in the way. At least if the discussion was about John Lassetter and Miyazaki, we could at least figure something out. There are no time barriers between the two, they both started their own successful compagnies, both received awards for their movies, both watch each other's movies for inspiration and in the end, both are great fans and friends.:D

I wonder what the question "Disney or Myazaki?" should mean.
Who makes/made better animated movies? Whose animators' animation and design techniques are better? Whose movies are artistically more, well, "stimulating" at the moment? Ever? Compare the recent fame of an inspirational Asian director to the ground-breaking achievements in animation fuelled by the enthusiasm of an American who saw more in the medium than anybody before him? That sounds like a whole bunch of questions all wanting individual answers.
The term "Disney", at least in the Western hemisphere, means so much more than just the man and his vision. It's theme parks, one of the greatest entertainment corporations ever, brand names, the Nine Old Men, Carl Barks, Glen Keane and so on and so on. Can we really compare "the man" Walter Elias Disney and "the man" Hayao Myazaki? They're decades apart and while one creates enchanting movies now, I doubt they would've been possible without the advances in animation filmmaking inspired, overseen and orchestrated by Disney and his leading people. In turn, Disney artists today are inspired by Myazaki.
So what do we do now, compare the "brand Disney" and the "brand Myazaki"? What does this tell us about their achievements? I'm not a fan of generalisations. Some are quick to call times "better" or "worse", forgetting that either way they're doing the advances of a given time injustice.

Hey Jabber I think it's because we are in an age of realty shows where people get a kick out seeing people voted off the island. I for one am a little sick of making everything a competition.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

argument, noun,
a discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a dispute

Ah yes; the familiar Harvey dictionary defense. Ya gotta love the classics...;)

So to disagree with anything Harvey ever writes is to be the instigator of an argument. Got it. Sheesh... :)

Actually, we agree on two things; I've mentioned the other one repeatedly. Wait; I've just disagreed with Harvey again - d@mmit! Started another argument... :D

Well without threads like this DSB you and Harvey would have hardly have anywhere to post. Glad you two enjoy a good argument.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Minus the fact that they're two of the biggest contributors on the site, yah, I could see that. At least it's genuinely entertaining. Strong personalities, both as stubborn as they are intelligent. Reminds me of home ;)

Ah yes; the familiar Harvey dictionary defense. Ya gotta love the classics...;)

Well, your take on reality appears to be so skewed, I figured it was highly likely that - while you claim you didn't start the argument - you don't even know what an argument is.
And, hey, looky here: I was correct! --->

So to disagree with anything Harvey ever writes is to be the instigator of an argument. Got it. Sheesh... :)

Look at the definition again, professor.

Actually, we agree on two things; I've mentioned the other one repeatedly.

Actually, I'll bet we agree on hundreds of things.

Isn't it nice of me to end this post on such a positive note?

I say Miyazaki

Sorry but Miyazaki can tell a story. Disney knew it, which is why they quickly got the distribution rights before others did.

Disney along time ago had the best stories, but (just my opionion) it lost alot of that "magic" . My kids also favour Miyazaki over Disney...which actually suprised me, but I guess they can see it too. And they are 5 and 6.

A DSB vs. Harvey sticky is much less retarded than a Disney vs. Myazaki one.

Well it depends on wether or not you're referring to disney, back in the day, or disney today. Personally, I'm disappointed in the loss of traditional animation. It's a form of drawing I grew up with and have come to enjoy.
Also, the story lines in disney's movies today, kind of annoy me :mad: Miyazaki's stories have deeper meanings.
I like the dramatic genre. That's why I'm a fan of his work.

I loved disney back in the day, with all their cool stories and hand-drawn animation. I've come across a lot of people who feel the same way.

I was going to vote Miyazaki without thought but some previous posts bought to my attention that Walt Disney is indeed the one reponsible for making animation what it is today, and this cannot be compared to.
However, strictly regarding styles and stories, etc, Miyazaki takes my vote.

Miyazaki probably wouldn't be doing what he's doing today had it not been for Walt taking animation in the direction that it is still going in today.

So my vote is for Walt...no offense to Miyazaki, but it's hard to compare him to a man who is almost solely responsible for making animation mainstream and bringing it to the public eye.

Miyazaki probably wouldn't be doing what he's doing today had it not been for Walt taking animation in the direction that it is still going in today.

So my vote is for Walt...no offense to Miyazaki, but it's hard to compare him to a man who is almost solely responsible for making animation mainstream and bringing it to the public eye.

I have to agrree Disney gets my vote too. Miyazaki body of work is awsome with each film getting better in art work and story telling. I am trying to catch Cartoon Netwroks broadcast of Miazaki's work and so far I have.

It's a hard choice... umm... I'd have to say both.
James :cool:

It's silly to compare the two.
One was a studio owner and producer.
The other is an illustrator, designer, writer, director, and producer.
One guy had a 50 year head start on the other guy. :rolleyes:

You're asking us to compare the stories of each, but Walt Disney was not a writer. He was a guy who hired writers.

This is like comparing apples to the Sunkist corporation.

You're kidding me....

This is a sticky topic? :mad:

Sorry DSB, I figured this will eventually spiral into Anime vs Western Animation, so I thought I'd sticky it so we don't keep having this topic come up every couple of weeks.

Personally I agree with Harvey. I think a better comparison would be between Miyazaki and John Lassetter. Not that I care mind you. :D

Aloha,
the Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

You're asking us to compare the stories of each, but Walt Disney was not a writer. He was a guy who hired writers.

That's not really fair to Disney. Every story guy that ever worked with Walt said that he was, hands-down, the best story guy at the studio. It wasn't his sole job, but he was apparently excellent at it.

Also, Disney never hired writers, at least for animation. He hired story men, people who knew how to tell stories with pictures. Writers came along later with the move into live action.

First you say it's not fair to say Walt wasn't a writer because he was a "story man," then you say that story men aren't writers.

Being the studio owner and producer, Walt could naturally tell the writers to take the story in this or that direction, or even insert a line of dialogue. He had the power to say "I don't like this gag; take it out." As the voice of Mickey, he could certainly make the mouse say whatever he wanted him to.

My point is that he didn't spend his day writing, directing (not since the Oswald days), or animating as professional writers, directors, and animators do. He spent his day running a studio, producing up to 20 films a year, dealing with distributors, and managing his employees.

Miyazaki, on the other hand, is credited as the writer and director on most of his films, and usually does design, storyboard, or animation work as well.

I'm sorry Harvey; I forgot that you don't have the ability to (or choose not to) read between the lines.

In your post, it appeared that you were suggesting that Disney didn't have input into the story process. That's incorrect. Further, by all indications it was excellent input. Maybe it was by virtue of his position in the organization, but so what? A similar position didn't help Eisner contribute anything of quality to the process. You think Miyazaki's contributions to his films aren't due to his position in the organization?

Your point is exactly the same same one I made, although it appears your knowledge of exactly what Walt did is pretty weak. You've described him as a run-of-the-mill executive, when everything ever written about him indicates he was anything but. He did far more than the daily administrative tasks you suggest, as even a cursory read of the studio's history will show you.

And to reiterate - we agree on "your point." It was the same point I made.

In your post, it appeared that you were suggesting that Disney didn't have input into the story process. That's incorrect.
...
it appears your knowledge of exactly what Walt did is pretty weak. You've described him as a run-of-the-mill executive, when everything ever written about him indicates he was anything but.

You are extrapolating all kinds of ridiculousness. The fact that I didn't describe Walt's entire life story doesn't mean that my "knowledge of exactly what Walt did is pretty weak." I have read hundreds of pages on the history of the Disney studios, written by actual historians, not by gushing sycophants.
I never claimed Disney wasn't involved in the story process.
I never described Disney as "a run-of-the-mill executive."

I've simply been describing the difference between Disney's and Miyazaki's jobs and thus far I've been factually correct. Miyazaki is a professional screenwriter and director. Disney - during his most influential period - was not.
Disney was at his best running a studio and managing writers, designers, and directors.
Miyazaki is at his best writing and directing.

You seem to want to make arguments out of nothing. Shall we argue next about exactly which shade of blue the sky is?

Somewhat ironically, sky blue =P

Somewhat ironically, sky blue =P

hasn't anyone ever taught you never to use circular definitions? IDIOT!!! :D

Miyazaki all the way!! My apologies to Walt but I think Miyazaki's films are far more inspirational and make you feel happy about life in general. They make you look at everything in a different manner. That is a rare asset in films and I have to say Miyazaki has been able to achieve that in most of his movies.:D

.

.

if your talking about recent Disney (1990- on)

then i would have to go with Miyazaki

If you mean the classic disney,then i would most likely go with disney,but Miyazaki would put up a good fight.

Why not

Bill Plympton VS Hayao Miyazaki

?

When's the last time you saw a "Month of Plympton" on Cartoon Network?

I personally hate plympton,his cartoons are never funny.

I've grown up with disney, so I have a great respect for them, and when I think about it, I enjoy the animation, and such. However, possibly because I'm not as enriched in as much as other (year wise) but I do adore Miyazaki, I far more enjoy that type of animation than others, and I love his stories, and the fact that one of my favorite books was animated by him (Howl's Moving Castle) my admiration grows.

I believe that Disney and Miyazaki are great in their own ways and they are different people of different times, and places, and resources. Its not the best two to compare.

Because they both rock in their own way!:p :D

Tessa Palfreyman
Student of: MSMS
palf007@msms.k12.ms.us
----------------------------------
You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.

--George Bernard Shaw

In my opinion, even an anime like sailor moon, given the right episode and viewed in japanese, can compete with some of walt's films such as snow white which I found, maybe innovative, yet horribly boring. Miyazaki brings something to the table that disney could never DREAM of. Disney did it first, Miyazaki did it better.