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Actors Vs Toons

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Actors Vs Toons

Hi all,

One of the best films i've seen from last year and the start of 2006 is the foreign language film 'Downfall' depicting the last days of Hitlers reign. Of all the war films out of Hollywood i've seen none have been as powerful in delivering a story as this. In fact the last war movie that has accomplished anything remotely similar was another foreign language film, Das Boot! At the end of the film i couldn't speak to anyone for a while such was the effect the movie had on me. I have never previously had the luxury of seeing the actors on screen before and i'm sure this had a profound impact on how truly immersive the experience was.
It got me thinking though on whether an animated movie could pull off such a tough subject. Sure, anything remotely comedic and animation rules the roost, maybe even surpassing what can be done by actors in this genre, but can it succeed in a genre that tells the story through emotion. Can animation mirror emotions we can see so evident in the way an actor portrays through facial expressions that are so subtle they border on the sub-conscious?

Oh, and i recommend you see 'Downfall' if you haven't yet.

G.

Love the link Harvey, but they seem to be all animals. I'll spend some more time there when I have time.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Grumbleboy I am in the process of downloading some of the clips, but being on dialup it's going to take me a while, but they do look promising.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Fazendinha, spot on mate, 'When the wind blows' is a great movie. It really grabs the mood of the whole subject matter and actually now you've mentioned it, i remember feeling really emotional for the characters in that. Gonna have to see that again.

I love the creature comforts shorts. Simple as ya like. Its often the little 'sub-characters' in the bg that are the funnniest to watch. Again though, the animation is only feeding off a great narrative delivered by some great voice actors. Splendid!!

G.

I love the creature comforts shorts. ... Again though, the animation is only feeding off a great narrative delivered by some great voice actors.

a couple corrections:

First off, they aren't actors. The reason the "performances" sound so believable is that they're regular Joes being interviewed by the producers about a variety of topics.

I feel that another thing that makes it believable is the mundanity of the settings and subject matter. Most cartoon characters go off on wacky adventures. They don't sit around talking about gardening and the meaning of life.

Secondly, the animation is feeding off of more than the speakers. The Aardman crew films the production staff lip-synching to the recordings with enhanced expressions and gestures. These performances are used as a guide for the animators.

My favorite is the seeing eye dog.

I also like Captain Cuddlepuss.

Grumbleboy I am in the process of downloading some of the clips, but being on dialup it's going to take me a while, but they do look promising.

The link that I gave is just about a 30s clip of the film (which runs around 8 mins or so, I believe). I think I have found the whole thing online before, but I can't seem to remember where.

I thought Hogarth Hughes yelling, "You can fly?!? YOU CAN FLY!!!!!" was...well, words fail. It was real.

I think Hogarth Hughes was one of the "realest" characters i've ever seen on screen.

Especially the part where he jumped in the water and yelled to Dean "You big baby!"... Through his expressions... you felt how cold that water was.

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I think Hogarth Hughes was one of the "realest" characters i've ever seen on screen.

Especially the part where he jumped in the water and yelled to Dean "You big baby!"... Through his expressions... you felt how cold that water was.

I agree 100%.
Part of my great love for Iron Giant is the absolute sincerity in the voice performances.
Usually I wince at child characters because triteness usually follows them around like a puppy. Not so with Hogarth--he was a "real" kid, with real kid motivations and drives and that drew me in.
Lilo was another kid that worked on screen, but her flaws and faults are what made her interesting.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Is that the one in which the big oaf-like character is collecting photographs of dead soldiers who have been pushed off of a high plank? I saw that film last week. It was BRILLIANT, made in Poland, a place not readily known for its 3D animation industry.

Here is the link.

http://www.shermix.com/index.php?video&serv=sharemix&id=fallenart

I believe it is mo-cap though :( but heavily re-worked.

Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Hi Wade -

I think the short you're talking about is "Fallen Art" a film by Tomek Baginski. He also did "Cathedral" that was nominated for an Oscar a few years ago. Here's the studio site where he works:

http://www.platige.com/

-Cathy

I've never been moved like that by an animated film. Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's a flaw in the process. I cried at Bambi, but that's not the same thing. I know the Secrets of Nimh phased me but not like that, and I really get moved by the Iron Giant, but no not to that emotional point.

Maybe in order to make that sort of intense connection it has to be a person, to a person, with no imitations allowed.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I've been mulling this subject over in my mind. And I came up with a memory of seeing a version of the Little Match Girl in animation when I was a kid and crying about it for weeks when I'd go to bed and be by myself (Didn't want to let my brothers know it bothered me.). Maybe it's part of growing up that we don't connect as much. As a kid the characters are as real as real life, but as you grow up you ask for more validation maybe. Maybe you have to sense that maybe these characters have really experienced some of the things you have once you have grown up, and that's why an animated character doesn't cut it any longer. Just a thought.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I have a hunch - that part of building empathy into an animated film, from the audience's standpoint, would be to rely heavily on the "suspension of disbelief" factor. And with 3D and 2D characters that is much more difficult to achieve. Although we can "care" about what happens to a specific character - it is harder to completly empathize with them if they are not "real" in our sense of the world - flesh and blood.

I've never been moved like that by an animated film. Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's a flaw in the process. I cried at Bambi, but that's not the same thing. I know the Secrets of Nimh phased me but not like that, and I really get moved by the Iron Giant, but no not to that emotional point.

Maybe in order to make that sort of intense connection it has to be a person, to a person, with no imitations allowed.

What film are you talking about, Pahcker? Fallen Art, or Downfall? I have yet to see Downfall, but I absolutely LOVED Fallen Art.

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

"Downfall", I think that's the film the original question was about. I haven't seen it either, and it'll will probably never show here where I am, but I read a few reviews on it and it seems really worthwhile.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Hi guys,

Fallen Art is great! and although it covers a pretty deep subject matter it still conveys a whimsical element to the piece - some light relief to what is actually a pretty horrible reality. In case you didn't know 'Downfall' is not an animated movie - apologies for not making that clearer - it is acted incredibly well and does not have any respite in way of comedy.

Cathy brings up a good point with the 'suspension of reality'. Funny that the two characters i felt most about in an animated movie was 'The Iron Giant' (a robot) and 'Watership Down' (a rabbit). Its funny then that Phacker mentions Bambi as being an emotional experience (another non human character).

Perhaps it is true then that anything other than the real thing regarding emotion from a human character just isn't that...........emotional for us. Maybe it is to do with the fact that what we are in fact watching is an imitation and not the real thing as Phacker suggested. Why then does an animated character need to be an animal/robot/non humanoid for us to connect?

G.

I can't think of an animated film with human characters, where I really felt connected with the human characters, usually they are shallow and slightly vacant in a way. I liked Lilo, but not really any emotional bond there as well as with Tarzan, or Sleeping Beauty, or Cinderella. Funny isn't it. I felt more connected with the mice in Cinderella than I did with Cinderella.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I can't think of an animated film with human characters, where I really felt connected with the human characters, usually they are shallow and slightly vacant in a way. I liked Lilo, but not really any emotional bond there as well as with Tarzan, or Sleeping Beauty, or Cinderella. Funny isn't it. I felt more connected with the mice in Cinderella than I did with Cinderella.

I thought Hogarth Hughes yelling, "You can fly?!? YOU CAN FLY!!!!!" was...well, words fail. It was real.

Phacker, there is a reason for that... Warner Brothers always animated animal characters for a reason, and that is that it is MUCH easier to personify animal characters than it is to do so with human characters. Human characters, if you make a small error, it will be painfully evident to the audience, as we, as humans, recognize the flaws immediately. Make animals act as humans act though, and noone is any the wiser.

Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

I think The Iron Giant will be forever one of my favorites just likely due to the whole range of emotions it managed to draw forth from the viewer. The Incredibles and Finding Nemo stack up quite well as well. For a more serious tone, I really love Mamoru Oshii's Jin Roh- The Wolf Brigade. People seem to either love or hate that film.. I love it! Quite powerful, with a meloncololic sdaness permeating the main characters. It has an amazing score, and striking imagery and use of metaphors as the story unfolds.

I thought Hogarth Hughes yelling, "You can fly?!? YOU CAN FLY!!!!!" was...well, words fail. It was real.

Hogarth has to be one of the most sympathic and human of all humans in the history of animation. And even the mom and junkyard dealer, but I think somewhere in the exageration or charaterization, they lost that certain something that makes you care as much as you would for a live action actor.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

"Iron Giant" is, for me, probably tops as far as having an emotional involvement with human animated characters, though "The Incredibles" is right up there as well--maybe it's a Brad Bird thing.

"Father and Daughter" is one of the most beautiful and touching short films I've seen.

animation films can touch people just the same as life action. think of "The Man Who Planted Trees" by Frederik Back and "When the Wind Blows" by Jimmy T. Murakami, they are both really powerful films in different ways

"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/

I haven't seen either of those Faze, I'll have to try and get a hold of them.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I haven't seen either of those Faze, I'll have to try and get a hold of them.

You should definately see them, they are two of my very favourite films. Pratically all of Frederik Back's work is tear inducing, even "crik crak" which is a chair's life story!

"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/

I've been watching the Creature Comforts TV series recently and it has the best animated acting I can remember seeing.
This might be partly because the voice talent isn't actors but regular people in interviews, so it doesn't sound as hammy or vaudevillian as most voice talent does.

You can see some clips here: http://www.creaturecomforts.tv/