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Should I even consider the Animation major?

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Should I even consider the Animation major?

Hi all. This is my first post here. My english ain't good, but i'm trying my best to learn, so please do help me by scrutinizing even the tiniest bits of mistake i made, kay?

I'm just wondering whether I should even consider to take 'Animation' as a major or not. Well, it was about a week ago where I was so sure about taking Psychology major. I've planned the transfer, the university (I'm just going to graduate from high school this November), the graduate degree, what kind of psychologist I want to be, and suddenly BAM! I saw a major offered at a college called 'Animation'. A major I never knew had existed for such long time. It then immediately takes me back to my passion for movies, games, and animations, which had been the things that I decided to seal as a past when I aimed for UC Berkeley's psychology degree. Now it's the only thing that I could think of.

Now, I do know a little bit of Flash, a little bit of Photoshop, but don't even bother to ask me to draw things. The last 3 dogs I drew was mistaken for sheeps, and horses mistaken for cars. I simply can't draw. I might have a little bit of programming background (I knew basic html, pascal, visual basic, and C++), but my friend told me that animation is all about drawing and drawing and drawing. and drawing. and drawing. Should people like me even be in the industry?

And I'm also wondering about the specific jobs there are in the animation industry. I heard there were people called the animators or the character animators, there were modellers, and there were perhaps people who handle the special visual effects, who combines normal pictures with mattes drawing (which I'm not even sure what that is.. it's just that people use the word so often that I got familiar with it) and produces some RPG-like (or fantasy-like, whatever) pictures. Does anybody could please define for me what kind of job each of them do? Or maybe if there are some other jobs that I never even heard of, it would be really helpful.

Thanks.

Divaliant's picture
"If life deals you a bad hand... cheat."

"If life deals you a bad hand... cheat."

Hi all. This is my first post here. My english ain't good, but i'm trying my best to learn, so please do help me by scrutinizing even the tiniest bits of mistake i made, kay?

I'm just wondering whether I should even consider to take 'Animation' as a major or not. Well, it was about a week ago where I was so sure about taking Psychology major. I've planned the transfer, the university (I'm just going to graduate from high school this November), the graduate degree, what kind of psychologist I want to be, and suddenly BAM! I saw a major offered at a college called 'Animation'. A major I never knew had existed for such long time. It then immediately takes me back to my passion for movies, games, and animations, which had been the things that I decided to seal as a past when I aimed for UC Berkeley's psychology degree. Now it's the only thing that I could think of.

Now, I do know a little bit of Flash, a little bit of Photoshop, but don't even bother to ask me to draw things. The last 3 dogs I drew was mistaken for sheeps, and horses mistaken for cars. I simply can't draw. I might have a little bit of programming background (I knew basic html, pascal, visual basic, and C++), but my friend told me that animation is all about drawing and drawing and drawing. and drawing. and drawing. Should people like me even be in the industry?

And I'm also wondering about the specific jobs there are in the animation industry. I heard there were people called the animators or the character animators, there were modellers, and there were perhaps people who handle the special visual effects, who combines normal pictures with mattes drawing (which I'm not even sure what that is.. it's just that people use the word so often that I got familiar with it) and produces some RPG-like (or fantasy-like, whatever) pictures. Does anybody could please define for me what kind of job each of them do? Or maybe if there are some other jobs that I never even heard of, it would be really helpful.

Thanks.

To be perfectly blunt, if you are unsure, at this juncture, what kinds of jobs there are in the Animation field, then pursuing it as a major may not be the best of plans. Animation isn't just something you can hop into on a whim.

There's a tremendous amount of info out there on the subject of animation, I suggest perusing it to see if its something you are truly interested in before undergoing the degree route.

As for drawing skills, let me say just this: lacking drawing skills in seeking an animation degree is kind of like taking just animal psychology courses to get a psychology degree. Drawing skills are an asset because they are, and always will be, considered to be a cornerstone artistic skill. They are the foundation that a lot of other skills rest on. It IS possible to excel without good drawing skills, but it is very uncommon.

To be blunt again, if you are not currently demonstrating intermediate, or near professional-level artistic skills then a degree will not help much.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Thanks for the so-called blunt advice. I love people with straightforward comment, especially at time like this where I need to make my decision ASAP. I'm trying to learn basic drawing now, how to draw human's head, eyes, nose, hair, etc, just to see if I'm really not meant to be in the animation ind.

I believe there are tons of infos out there for me to collect, but I've spent hours already, and I still can't seem to find someplace with a decent definition of the jobs in the industry. What they're doing, and what specialties do they have, etc. I guess this is because I search it the wrong way. Could anybody please help me to list the type of job that gets an animation done? (like the vfx, the compositor, modeller, etc). That way I would locate the job definition much much more easier.

Thanks a lot guys.

"If life deals you a bad hand... cheat."

dont get hung up too much on actual drawing though. Drawing is a skill. Anybody can learn it.

I am a student of animation, and at my school i have learned to draw. Although i have always been into animation, i never did do much drawing until school. I am pretty comfortable with drawing now.

You seem to be talking of 3D animation with your animator/modeler roles and whatnot. so i will tell you what i have been told about animation jobs.

A modeler is somebody who constructs the 3D mesh of the character. The object you see IS the model. They make the game characters, environments, characters and objects in a 3D space. They do not necesarilly design characters or anything, they just construct what is needed with the 3D computer program.

Animators do the animation. Set keyframes give the character life.

There are Texture artists who create the surfaces placed on your 3D models. They make the metal surface look like a metal surface and the wood grain on the floor look like wood grain on the floor. They paint the textures along with other various techniques.

Lighting people deal with the lighting in the scene.

The jobs i have described are for 3D stuff, like Games. There are quite a few other roles in the industry as well, ranging from character design to storyboarding. depends on what grabs you i guess.

"who wouldn't want to make stuff for me? I'm awesome." -Bloo

"Drawing is a learnable, teachable skill." If you want to learn to draw get Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards. It sounds that you know enough enlish that you will make out okay with it. Do every project in the book, no matter how silly it seems. When you are done, you'll be able to draw. I guarantee. There is also a book called Animation: Into to a Career, which may help you learn the basic info you are asking about. In 3D animation there are also people who work on the technical side of things. With your programming knowledge, this might be more your route.

Go to dreamworksanimation.com and click on jobs. There are descriptions there for many of the positions in animation and animation technology. It will also describe some of the skills you need for that job, to give you an idea.

http://corporate.disney.go.com/careers/feature_animation_career_info.html
is Disney's description of animation jobs in their studio.

You can also go to pixar.com and search their jobs board to read descriptions of the jobs currently available there.

The information is out there and actually pretty easy to find, just keep looking. This site (awn) has a welth of knowledge about animation and books on animation. Just keep browsing the articles. You should consider a degree in game design or development, as opposed to animation, if you just feel passionate for the industry and not specifically ANIMATING. If you are gung-ho about being the person that brings the character to life, then you want to be an animator. Right now it seems you are just attacted to the process. With technical interests, I'm sure there is a niche for you within the wide realm of animation. Some schools you might consider as starting points are digipen.edu, collinscollege.edu, and rsad.edu. Looking at their programs and required courses might give you a better idea. calarts.edu will give you an idea of a good traditional animation program. Also, if you want to be an animator, even 3D, most will say a strong background in drawn animation is a must. Also, don't just go into animation because you think you'd like to work for square-enix or pixar, do it if you know you'll be happy doing anything animation. Or if you feel you'd never be happy doing anything else. It's a tough business, I hear, but I believe passion can get you anything. Maybe take some night classes in animation or life drawing at a community college (or the like in your country) to see how you like it, before enrolling in an expensive animation program. Good luck deciding.

Whoa.. thanks. Actually, I've tried to learn to do some basic face drawing. The result? Drawing looks much more easier in the manual ^^. But I definitely see some improvement in them. At first I drew a really really ugly guy who got hit by a truck in the face and then got stepped on by the crowds in some rock n roll concert. Now it's the really really ugly guy who got hit by a truck in the face ad then got stepped on by the crowds in some rock n roll concert, but a little bit more handsome than the first one.

By the way, I'm an Indonesian and in my country, those kind of books are labeled super rare. The only place you could find imported books like this are at a really really expensive bookstore called Kinokuniya. I've tried looking there and returned to no avail.

Thanks for the websites. The pixar and dreamworks currently have little to nothing job available, so I didn't really get much from those, but I would check the sites regularly to see if there would be any new job available for me to see.

Btw, I just want to clarify about the job difference between a character animator with a modeller. The modeller would be the person who design the character, it's personality, it's gadgets, etc, and the animator would be the person who actually moves the character around, doing actions, is that right?

Well, actually, I had no idea of what I really want to be atm. I just thought that maybe I'll be working around the industry, but still close enough to the production process (I have no interest at all in becoming the quality assurance or the public relation guys =p). And I'm definitely not that wealthy that I could afford universities like calarts. I'll be going to a community college first to see where my interests really are, and maybe then try to transfer to some other college with yearly tuition below 20k usd. I've saw this Academy of Art University (http://www.academyart.edu/) and thought that it might be one of the options. Anybody know that school? Because even the worst of the school would put great things up their website just to lure inexperienced international students to get in and then regret for paying loads of money for some stupid school.

Oh, is anybody here that actually have experience working in the animation industry? I heard some people said that it pays really good, but some others said that it's a great job with lousy pay. So how much do the salary range?

Thanks.

"If life deals you a bad hand... cheat."

Oh, is anybody here that actually have experience working in the animation industry? I heard some people said that it pays really good, but some others said that it's a great job with lousy pay. So how much do the salary range?

Thanks.

Well, I have 20+ years experience in the biz, and I'm teaching subjects at Art Institute related to it right now. I've worked on over a hundred different kinds of shows and projects.

In North America, the industry is in a state of flux right now--its been that way for about 10 years, and its starting to settle down some. The advent of 3D and FLASH productions have changed the landscape a lot, so those old 2D jobs have been changed because of it. 2D projects and work still happens, but its different from region to region.

So is the pay.
It depends upon your skills, the project and its budget, the region you are working in and the amount of work prevelant in that area.
The usual average is around $1000 a week--but that's an average. Starting out you could field only about $500 a week and experienced folks could gain $2000 a week or more--depending on those above factors.

That's just a lure though, the other side of this is that you still need to have ability.
I digress a bit with the other two contributors to this thread in that drawing is a skill that can be learned. It can be, to a degree, but it also takes a measure of internal talent. One can learn to draw to a mediocre or modest level, but real mastery and high-level skill requires both effort AND talent. This isn't necessarily something you can be taught--if the brain doesn't make those connections early on, they seldom happen afterwards.
Drawing isn't just moving the pencil on the paper--its making specific designs and patterns that appeal and garner a emotional response in a viewer.

I do not see a lot of genuine ability in the students I get these days. A LOT of them are hooked by the lure, the glamour of the industry, but they lack talent. They believe the school will train them to draw, but schools cannot train you to draw well. This is the crutch that schools overlook/neglect to tell you about. If you go into a program with modest to near-professional abilities, chances are you will emerge with professional abilities. If you enter with mediocre or no ability, then schools will not be able to help you much.
Animation isn't a job where you can just go thru the motions, there's a distinct aesthetic mindset that's needed. If one doesn't understand that, then they will simply not flourish as a talent.
Professionally speaking, I do NOT see that mindset in a lot of aspiring talent these days.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

I do not see a lot of genuine ability in the students I get these days. A LOT of them are hooked by the lure, but they lack talent. They believe the school will train them to draw, but schools cannot train you to draw well. This is the crutch that schools overlook/neglect to tell you about. If you go into a program with modest to near professional abilities, chances are you will emerge with pro abilities. If you enter with mediocre or no ability, then schools will not be able to help you much.
Animation isn't a job where you can just go thru the motions, there's a distinct aesthetic mindset that's needed. If one doesn't understand that, then they will simply not flourish as a talent.
Professionally speaking, I do NOT see that in a lot of aspiring talent these days.

I remember John K. talking about this one time. He referred to the work of those talentless students as "graphitti art", inthat it looks like something a 10 yr old scribbled on his/her binder during math class. (Check any of Napolean Dynamite's drawings to see what I mean). But, the worst part of it was that when John tried to help them improve on their skills their response was "hey, this is my style and I'm not changing it." For them it wasn't so much the lack of talent holding them back as it was their already inflated egos not allowing instruction to enter their lives.

Divaliant, you say you have no drawing talent but at least you're aware of your abilities. That could help you improve your skills much faster and better than some people with a little more talent than you in the long run. As long as you see where your abilites are AND see them improving you should do fine. Also remember that automatically putting your skills down is just as harmful as those ego-driven hack kids constantly building theirs up. Like I said, be aware of your talents and everything should be okay. :cool:

Order my book Jesus Needs Help on Amazon or download on Kindle.

You can also read the first 18 pages of my next book for free at this link: The Hap Hap Happy Happenstance of Fanny Punongtiti

Btw, I just want to clarify about the job difference between a character animator with a modeller. The modeller would be the person who design the character, it's personality, it's gadgets, etc, and the animator would be the person who actually moves the character around, doing actions, is that right?

You have the animator right.

But the modeller is not the character designer. All that stuff you mentioned as the moddler is determined by the team who designs character concepts and writes the story. The modeler translates the 2 dimensional drawings into the 3d objects.

example:

Image from TEAM 17 for the game Worms 3D

But jobs may vary depending on where you work. Maybe some places the same people do both. Depends on what your good at and how the job works.

"who wouldn't want to make stuff for me? I'm awesome." -Bloo

I know there aren't a lot of jobs posted at pixar or dreamworks, but I think there are definitely enough to give you an idea of the types of jobs. Especially at dreamworks under under feature animation technology, as that seems to me something you'd like.

I do think anyone can learn to draw if they have the desire to. Maybe that is what you mean by the mindset to go into animation. But I think if someone has the passion to practice drawing everyday, experiment with new methods, and listen to anyone with knowledge that tries to advise them, they can learn to draw. Maybe someone needs to teach your students that they need to learn to draw well, before they can develop their own style. Also, I think some schools inflate grades so their graduates will get better jobs, and that might lead to inflated egos in the students. Maybe not at your school, but maybe where they came from, or in other schools if you see this as a trend in the industry. The kids just need to fail a few assignments to realize they better figure out how to draw, if you ask me. But then, they'd probably think you just didn't like their "style".;)

As for getting the books I mentioned, try ordering them online from the U.S. Try ebay or Amazon. I'm sure you could get them shipped to you. Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is imperative if you want to learn to draw!!!

Also, I suggest.... don't let money affect your decision of what school to go to. Sure, start at a community college at first, but when you know what you want to do, go for it! Not to say you can't get a good education for less... but definitely go somewhere with good courses, a good reputation, and a good faculty. Find out how the job placement is for grads in the degree program you want. The last thing you want to do is spend a lot of money, only to graduate and find out you didn't get the best education and no one will hire you. Take out loans if you have to. Also, U.S. schools love cultural diversity. If you can get in, you might find they'll offer you great financial help just because you're an international student.

Academy of Art Univeristy is a school I don't know much about, but one I am considering for grad school. A girl who did undergrad at my school is getting her master's there now. She is awesome and got a huge fellowship from the government, so I'm sure if she chose it, it must be good. Also, another girl from my school got a second bachelors there. She ended up going the more illustration than animation route, but she seems to have enjoyed her time there and gotten her money's worth.
http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/compare_schools.jsp
That link will lead to a page that helps compare schools. You can get important information at a glance.

I'm typing too much again. Good luck to you.

Wow.. thanks a lot guys, for the encouragement and the advices, and Ken Davis for sticking me to the ground with things u said which sound like what real-life really is ^^. Guess I'll be give it a go.

"If life deals you a bad hand... cheat."

Wow.. thanks a lot guys, for the encouragement and the advices, and Ken Davis for sticking me to the ground with things u said which sound like what real-life really is ^^. Guess I'll be give it a go.

My philosophy: there's no point in patronizing someone with unrealistic expectations.
To do this, it'll take a lot of hard work--like anything in life.
Not everyone is cut out for it.

One of the things about this industry is that it has a glamourous allure and a LOT of school capitalize on that allure to attract paying students.
The criticism continually offered about the modern schools is that they offer UNREALISTIC expectations to people. Keep that in mind, because those that succeed at the schools(and then in the industry itself) are typically the ones that don't really need the schooling in the first place.

If you are get yourself to that plateau then you'll find the whole goal to be a lot more attainable.
Again, that's just experience talking.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

How much do animators get paid? 3D animators that is.... My friend just graduated w/ a major in 3D animation in the midwest, and when he started looking for jobs he was gettin offers from CA for 150 grand a year. That's damn cool even for cali standards.

How much do animators get paid? 3D animators that is.... My friend just graduated w/ a major in 3D animation in the midwest, and when he started looking for jobs he was gettin offers from CA for 150 grand a year. That's damn cool even for cali standards.

Those kind of wages are a lure.

But how long has the company been around? How long is the project expected to last? What's their turnover rate? Somone might make $40K of the $150K in only a few months, but get left on the curb on short notice.

$150K in California isn't a whole lot because Cal. is a expensive state to live in--especially in the big cities.

I've a colleague that was head-hunted down from Canada to work on X-box games and was offered a handsome salary.

Then they laid him off less than a year after he got there.

That kind of thing is common, and offering big wages simply makes the whole thing nuts because people see the money, but seldom consider the situations attached to it.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

I am probably throwing a monkey wrench into the discussion. But when did the decision to major in a specific area, rely soley on the job market for that major. You are just starting out, and to base your major on just a marketing graph of what jobs are available seems like it would really limited your choices. I remember in the late eighties and nineties MBAs were the degree of choice, and maybe these folks all found jobs in that area, but I doubt it.

You are young, starting out, following your interests, and the classes and studies will be easier to complete and more rewarding in the long run.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Hm.. Just out of my curiousity, how much did people w/ other jobs earn a year? Like.. psychologist, or doctor, or the people who works on fastfood store. I find it kind of surprising that the payment for being an animator is actually 'the lure', remembering that the stories that are going around about all people being hired and fired, that there's not much of the stability w/ the contract, all the working overseas at where the studio is located, things liddat. And also remembering that the job itself is a grueling process.. i read somewhere in the mag that for corpse bride, it took 40-70 pictures to make the bride blink? omg that's a lot for a split second action.

"If life deals you a bad hand... cheat."

When I was thinking of getting into the animation major, someone who went to cal arts told me this:

"The next time you're in your art class, take a look around. If you're not the best or one of the best, then go home because you won't make it"

This did not discourage me at all, but rather gave me "real" motivation because I was sure I wanted to be in the field so that just told me I need to excel in any way I can. I'm not saying im the best artist but I do have skills as well as weak points.

Just because you can't draw that doesn't mean you can do great. Like a lot of people here said, it just takes a lot of hard work. It would require you to put in more effort seeing how you would be behind a lot of other people. Drawing is a skill and not a gift (well for some it might be), so just keep improving that skill and you'll be fine.

On a side note, since anatomy and figure drawing is one of the "must-learn" skills in animation, I would suggest getting some Glenn Vilppu manuals and Dvds because in my opinion he is just one of the best people around to learn from.

Good luck with everything!

Guess what?... I've got a fever... and the only prescription... is more cowbell.