The last thing I heard from John K was his 'when cartoons were cartoony' interview. I wanted to watch 'the goddamned george liquor program' and to my dismay, I discovered Spumco's website was no more. So what are they up to now? I heard a rumor that Johnk is doing something for cartoonnetwork, but I want details. :confused:
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http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
http://www.johnkstuff.blogspot.com/
I really miss seeing the "George Liquor" cartoons.
This cartoon was supposedly made by John K.
http://www.quisp.com/cartoon/
John K has made - and is currently making - new Ren And Stimpy episodes for Spike TV. They have rather adult themes (they contain nudity and lots of "dirty jokes"; John K was apparently given carte blanche this time). Here's a link: Spike TV (caution: link is NOT work safe). I haven't seen any full episodes, but the link contains previews.
I don't think the new R&S is still in production. One of the producers posts on another board, and he said they finished up all the eps they'd contracted to do.
Of course, true to John K form, the eps were delivered late and not without some controversy. And I don't believe they're being shown on Spike any longer, though I could be wrong.
they were completed but alot of them never aired due to nudity.I do know that they are coming out with all the apc episodes on dvd unedited(the lost episodes)and a box set with everything r and s ever appeared on.This too will be unedited and have extras that the regular season sets dont read all about both of these dvds here http://www.lyris-lite.net/fu_archives/000150.html
here is a john k film reel that is worth a look as well http://apc.thetma.com/link.page?id=spumcoreel :D i love those commertials
that quaker animation was great!
I never got to see his yogi bear stuff. does anybody have a link to that?
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
Great news about a R&S DVD-box!, a must have!
I'm trying to find the Squirrel Nut Zippers video, "the Ghost of Stephen Foster" that Spumco made. They had a quicktime of it on their site but for some reason it was corrupt and I never got to see more than the first 10 seconds of it. Anyone have it or know where I can find it?
Rylander Animation
Striking Animation
http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/17663/ here is a boo boo ear cartoon its not the yogi one but its another spumco thing.
i just watched the video and wile cool it had no mention of spumco or john k.Maybe im wrong but here is the video judge for yourself. by the way thanks for mentioning it i liked the video :D
http://search.aol.com/aolcom/redir?src=websearch&requestId=a4a8029eda02202e&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=Squirrel+Nut+Zippers+video%2C+%22the+Ghost+of+Stephen+Foster%22&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifilm.com%2Fifilmdetail%2F939998&title=IFILM+-+Music+Videos%3A+Ghost+of+Stephen+Foster
Thanks for the link! Don't seems like John K. was involved in this one. It was shown on Spumcos site so even that they werent mentioned in the credits they relate to it in one way or another.
Rylander Animation
Striking Animation
The Squirrel Nut Zippers video was directed by Matthew Nastuck and Raymond Persi.
As for John K. I don't know what he's up to. Last thing I head about him was the whole Spike TV fiasco.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Isn't it interesting how often the words "John K" and "fiasco" end up in a sentence together? :rolleyes:
I seem to remember hearing that Ren and Stimpy is returning (not the Spike TV stuff) on Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon. If I am remembering right , I think John K/Spumco is involved with it.
You guys seem to be bringing up some older Spumco stuff so hopefully you've seen the Bjork and Tenacious D videos as well.
http://www.tenaciousd.com/ under A/V video you'll recognize it (and ,yes, it's dirty)
here's a link to a little version of the Bjork vid
http://www.bjork.com/videogallery/watch.php?video=11;size=small
I haven't heard anything about Cartoon Network or Nick before this post. Has anyone heard if it'll be new shows or are they just negotiating to show the older Ren and Stimpy's?
Haha, DSB, yeah, funny isn't it ;)
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I was trying to find something about what I had said. I can't remember why I thought they were making original episodes for Nicktoons. Anyway, from what I saw it looks like Ren and Stimpy is returning to Nicktoons Aug 1st but it is the original shows.
on another note, I believe a few years back Ralph Bakshi was teaming up again with John K/Spumco to work on their own features (Bobby's Girl). They were hiring for this so I assume it went into production. I haven't heard anything about it since then though. I would assume if they had started this at that time and it's a feature, this may be what they are working on now.
It's good to know that John K is keeping his reputation intact.
Did anyone see the new R&S? The previews didn't look that great.
Saw 2 eps. It was about all I could take...
i liked the old r and s cos they stepped over the line,but the new ones just seem tasteless,like they stepped over the line,tripped over it,and fell down a cliff.
ANIMATION FORUM
Production Blog
I think John K. is at his creative peak when he has to deal with restrictions, like during the early contentious days at Nick. He was forced to think of ways to push the envelope and still get it past TPTB.
Left to his own devices and without limitations, he's just crass. The George Liquor webtoons were unfunny at best and grade-school childish at worst.
I'd be very surprised to see John K head anything anytime soon.
Word I have from inside the Spike TV Ren and Stimp series was that it was extremely badly handled--to the point of being grossly unprofessional--on John K's part.
The scuttlebutt is that the entire seasons budget was blown on the first TWO episodes. John K then disappeared for a couple of weeks--literally could not be found-and budget overruns had to be put in place so the remaining order could be met.
It caused problems both at Spumco and their sattellite studio, Carbunkle.
The stunts the guy pulls--its not enough that he's got the rep of being the "bad boy of animation", he actually seems to live up to the label.
His stuff is cutting edge, he's good at training and guiding worthy talent and knows cartoons--but his business sense is appalling.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I too have heard the horror stories about John K. It seems that studios are scared to work with him due to overblown schedules (not meeting them), overblown budgets, and the guy's "God complex". One studio I worked for had a pitch in their possession from him, and they liked the idea, but along with that pitch, came John K., attached as director. After having already done "Ripping Friends" with him, they were extremely hesitant to do anything else with him.
I like his work of late, but I cannot tolerate unprofessionalism, and cannot say that I would ever look forward to working with the guy... However, I don't think I will ever have to, as he is probably "reaping what he sows" and working in a burger joint.
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
At some point in the future, we'll certainly be treated to more of John K's animation punditry, wherein he firmly lays the blame for all that went wrong with R&S APC at the feet of Spike TV. And his rabid fans will lap up every word with a spoon.
I'm sensing a pattern here...
Yeah, JohnK's reputation precedes him, which is obviously not very good for him. I wish he would stop clinging to the r&s apc and move on to something else. He seems to recycle the same characters over and over. I've haven't seen apc, I'm not missing much appearently. but I'm still a big fan of the original r&s(that booboo flash cartoon was pretty cool too)
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
I agree... Everything he does looks exactly the same... Looks like anime on crack.
"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon
spumco may be gone but i found a site that loves to imitate them http://www.carnivalcartoons.com/
yeh thos goes at carnival are a friends of a friend of mine lol *no one cares noob*
:D but imitate is the wrong word,inspired is what they are.
ANIMATION FORUM
Production Blog
well most of there stuff i suppose are more inspired but that bend over and take it cartoon was an imitation of john k frst class.(and they did it perfectly because just like john k's cartoons that cartoon wasnt very good lol)
ok sorry about that last comment im kinda a john k hater and i couldnt help myself.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/film/feature_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001096312
I cannot speak of his business acumen, and I personally felt quite "dirty" watching the Adult Party Cartoon version of Ren & Stimpy, but I still think it is safe to say I cannot think of another animation director working today that has had, for better or worse, a larger impact on television animation.
While I agree with some of your points, I am bemused by others. Does he have a "house style?" Sure. But did the fact that Futurama used much the same style as the Simpsons bring jeers to Matt Groening? Or similarities between the animated batman or Superman cartoons in the 1990's detract from Bruce Tim's talent?
Matt Groening
Genny Tartakofsky
Craig McCracken
Seth McFarlane
Just off the top of my head....
Why John K. continues to be idolized for a handful of cartoons that are basically strings of fart and booger jokes is beyond me.
that is exactly how i feel :D
I watched the commentary on the great piggy bank robbery by john.k on the golden collection.It seems that all he cares about is drawings.He finds humor in the way somethign is drawn and he really doesnt care abut writting.Or at least thats what i took form the commentary.Anyway i think he is a great drawer but i wish he would put some effort into story.
Had Matt Groening ever actually directed animation, I might agree that he was indeed more influencial a director than John K.
Certainly Kricfalusi, in the early 1990s, inspired an entire generation of television animators. Without Ren and Stimpy, I doubt there'd be a Spongebob or Rocko or Duckman, and Tartakofsky and MacCracken's work would have looked different; although those two seem to have taken more cues directly from stylized 50s-60s animation like Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear.
I agree that Kricfalusi is somewhat effed in the head where writing is concerned. He needs to partner with a talented writer if he wants his stuff to be widely appealing again. He needs a new Bob Camp.
Has everyone read this debate between Kricfalusi and Barrier?
http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Feedback/feedback_johnk.htm
Also, if you search the web, you can find a bunch of passionate response to their debate from other animators and critics.
"spumco may be gone but i found a site that loves to imitate them http://www.carnivalcartoons.com/"
These cats imitate that style too!
http://sugarqube.com/
Regardless... I still dig that style and John K's work. I don't tolerate unprofessionalism and egos though.
Can't speak for Spongebob or Duckman, but I know for sure that Rocko was in the works before R&S became a huge hit. I went to school with Joe and worked with him briefly when we were both starting out.
Harvey, I think you're splitting hairs over Groening. He may never have actually directed a Simpsons episode, but he is the driving force behind the look, feel, and style of the show, and that's really what we're discussing here anyway. There are plenty of R&S eps that John didn't direct but still have his aesthetic and approach to the characters.
You're probably right. I exaggerated when I claimed there wouldn't have been a Rocko (whose show appeared 3 years after Kricfalusi's Big House Blues debuted), but I still think Ren & Stimpy was highly influencial in the 1990s for shows like CatDog and The Angry Beavers; and still influencial for shows like The Fairly Oddparents, Camp Lazlo. and possibly even for movies like Madagascar.
Svenson illustrated his point well. Before Ren & Stimpy, all kids' cartoon shows looked like the Smurfs or like Care Bears. After Ren & Stimpy, many of them looked like Ren & Stimpy, at first. Today we have a wider diversity of animation styles on TV, thankfully.
(Whatever happened to Joe Murray. I would have liked to have seen more of his work on TV.)
My point was merely that Groening was never a director, which was what Svenson was talking about. But, yes, obviously Groening is one of the most important figures in modern television animation.
Joe's back on TV with "Camp Lazlo" on CN.
Just as Rocko was getting rolling he had a tremendous personal tragedy occur in his life and once he was done with Rocko decided to take some time off. He's been open about why he went away for a while, but has never discussed the actual event.
Matt Groening? Who has he influenced, aside from Seth McFarlane who constantly ad nauseum apes everything that was once unique about the Simpsons. There were a handfull of "Simpsons" inspired attempts . . . The Critic, etc, but ask anyone working on the Simpsons whose work THEY admire as original, John K or McFarlane. Ckech out the credits on Spongebob to see how many ex-Spumco folk they have writing and storyboarding.
Craig McCracken & Genny Tartakofsky? Wonderful, wonderful directors and cartoonists. What similar shows have their work inspired? What character designs, or timing, or sound effects, or direction, have you watched on another cartoon and have said "Gee, that looks/sounds/seems alot like Samurai Jack?" Samurai Jack, who used ex-Spumco people for character design and background painting/design. How many web flash cartoons have there been that people have mistakenly thought were done by Spumco? Plenty.
But am I the only one who remembers what television animation was prior to the early 1990s? GI Joe? He-Man? My Pretty Pony? Of the three original cartoons Nick started, Doug, Rugrats, and Ren & Stimpy, why is the only one remembered fondly at all the one John K created?
Hey, I am no John K apologist; he does NOT walk on water, poop pot·pour·ri, and certainly is not perfect. But to say that television animation today would not look and sound completely different had he not created Ren and Stimpy is in my mind disingenuous. But hey, nothing wrong with disagreeing!
I think partly because the other ones got taken over and corporatised to the point where they become totally soulless. I accidently caught an old Rugrats episode recently (I hate the show), but I was surprised to find that it was interesting to look at, and actually pretty good too. These shows, they just kept making them until enough people got sick of them and they had to stop.
Bizarrely the influence of a show like 'Doug' is huge. I reckon it's probably the grandfather of all these 'kids in school' type cartoons.
The nature of the business is that people move around a lot. And since Spumco can't seem to keep a studio open or artists employed, there are bound to be people on other shows that used to work there. Implying that these other shows benefit from having ex-Spumcoites on them is like saying everyone who's ever eaten a carrot will die - it's true, but only tangentally. Their skills and backgrounds get them the gigs, and while Spumco cred undoubtedly helps, it's not the determining factor.
That, my friend, is an absurd statement. So if the people who work on a show as artists, animators, designers, writers, or storyboard men don't contribute to the sucess of a show, what does? A person may get a job based on previous employment, but to KEEP that job and to SUCCEED at that job requires skill and talent. So if Lynn Naylor or Scott Wills gets hired for Samurai Jack, or an Aaron Springer gets hired for Spongebob, or Shane Glines for Batman, they are just interchangable cogs with the other listless masses of artists out there? The experience or talent they honed with John K at Spumco in absolutely no way helps make a show a success? Read interviews with these people, and see for yourself the credit they give John K.
Yes, John K rubs alot of people the wrong way, as an employer and director. I can completely understand people not liking the original R & S, the new R & S, or any Spumco product. That is a matter of opinion and taste, and I would not dream of trying to convince you to like something that you don't. But at least be objective.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to enjoy a nice carrot . . .
If you'd bothered to read my whole post, you'd have seen this:
"Their skills and backgrounds get them the gigs, and while Spumco cred undoubtedly helps, it's not the determining factor."
Which sounds surprisingly close to what you said:
"A person may get a job based on previous employment, but to KEEP that job and to SUCCEED at that job requires skill and talent."
Sure, the skills they honed at Spumco help - as did the skills they've honed at who-knows-how-many-other studios before and since. You seem to be operating on the assumption that John K gave them a career that they otherwise would not have had. I don't agree - I see it as one part of an evolving career, as I'm sure the artists in question do as well.
So if an artist hasn't worked at Spumco they're part of a "listless mass"? Pretty insulting, isn't that?
When did I ever say I didn't like R&S? If anyone's in need of some objectivity here, it's you. John did some good cartoons many years ago, and since then his track record's been spotty at best. How's that for objective?
Any claim that these artists benefitted from John K or Spumco are strictly taken from interviews with the artists themselves; I am careful not to put words in their mouths. Indeed, I went so far as to point out that there are also many artists who did not have a good working relationship with John. However, as I pointed out, those who feel they did benefit from the experience went onto work in very sucessful shows. They did not mention Ruby Spears or Filmation in any positive sense. An of course I am not claiming they owe any or all talent or sucess they have at the feet of John K. My whole reason for bringing all of this up is that I felt there was a piling-on of sorts; throwing turds at someone, without the benefit of context or history.
Richard Williams ran an animation studio for many years, employing all manner of animator and artist. Many went on to achieve great things in other animation studios after they left Richard. I am sure not all of them got along with him or liked him personally. But I have never heard anyone who worked there say they did no learn from him or was not a better animator from the experience. Just because someone may not like his "Thief and the Cobbler" or his business sence does not detract from his influience in the animation industry.
My listless mass "insult" was based on your implication that nobody worked at Spumco and learned anything there that present shows are benefitting from. Don't try to imply that I am insulting anyone here.
Now we can banter back and forth to the point of absurdity. You claim you liked Ren and Stimpy? Gee, calling them " . . .a handful of cartoons that are basically strings of fart and booger jokes . . . " must have confused me. And the John K/fiasco" comment on page 2. Guess I don't get this objectivity concept after all.
But I do very much agree with your statement that "John did some good cartoons many years ago, and since then his track record's been spotty at best." Spot on! Well said! And a far cry from much of the turd tossing by some that inspired my two cents to begin with. See? We're not so different, you and I. Come, let us share a bag of carrots . . .
It seems to me that the only animation directors who've had a "larger impact on television animation" than John K. were Hanna and Barbera, who dominated the field for 40 years.
Sigh... It's always fascinating when someone thinks they know what someone else likes or dislikes...
Are you planning on posting on any other topic on the board, or are you going to stick with this thread? For someone who claims to not be a John K apologist, I can't help but noticed this is the only one you've contributed to.
Well gee, I only just signed up Monday; I happened to have the answer to what John K/Spumco has been up to via that hollywood reporter link. Why does that bother you?
I can only judge someone by what they say; your " . . .a handful of cartoons that are basically strings of fart and booger jokes . . . " comment is a funny way to praise a cartoon series, unless one really DOES like strings of fart and booger jokes! I must have gotten it all wrong! Yep, body function humor . . .who doesn't like THAT?
Once again, the whole purpose in writing was to point out 1.) What John K/Spumco is up to now, and 2.)point out that while SOME people may not like his cartoons . . . NOT YOU, mind you (I won't make THAT mistake again), but SOME people, that he has been quite influential in television animation today. I really didn't think that made me an apologist, but I didn't understand the meaning of the word objective either.
Like to point out a different thread that I should post on?
some more john k impersonation :D
http://www.goldenrusset.com/
Lol-- it's getting hot in here. Someone open the windows.
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Shah
Wrong thread Webamir... and why do you require headshots? You lookin for animators or escorts?
I'm real ugly but animate like a sumnabitch.:D
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