so i've been experimenting with the filters and blending options in the flash 8 trial i recently downloaded.
i must say i'm impressed,nevermind these crappy drawings,i just want to show what can be done in flash now.
A little cell blurring/hard light experiment featuring noobs crappest art ever.
yum flash 8
its still all vector based,i haven't made a film in it yet,but i'm guessin the file sizes will be small even with all these features :D
looks like flash is gettin there man ;)
now...sumone give me some money to but the real thing...
i am due to buy a few copies once i ramp up production sometime in the next few months. is it worth it ? does it add anything over in terms of animation like the crap (Flash Mx 2004)
hmmm well,in terms of animation is looks pretty much the same,but i can't say because i've only had it about 2 hrs.and still have allot of reviewing to do,i was more experimenting with the new effects/filters.
what do you think was crap about 2004?i thought it was pretty good
is it worth it? i dunno,thats for you to decide,thats why they make these things called trial versions. :D
its available at www.macromedia.com go download it ;)
tell us what u think.
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Contrary to what all you PhotoShop filter fans think this stuff is a crutch, and it's not strictly vector based, so your file sizes will be larger then they need be. But if you are having fun that's what counts. I am sure they'll sell a lot of copies based on these filter effects, instead of paying attention to serious concerns that should have been attended to.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
well not having to switch between programs is a big move f**cker,i mean phacker :D
and i've never really had a problem with the way flash works,so i'm not really concerned.
what people need realise *you for one phacker* is that flash isn't supposed to be an *animation program*,its meant for web.so your not going to get all the features u like.
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When I bought my first copy it was advertised as an animation tool for the web. And since that's what I wanted to do, that's why I went with it. I don't have the idea that I am going to make the big time. I do what I do. When you make the big time, let us know. It's being used for production quality shows now, so why run it down. If you want to use PhotoShop filter crutches that's your problem.
And as an aside my name is short for Pat Hacker, and I don't appreciate the juvenile take on it.
Pat
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
and there u go again,who ran it down?
didn't i just post a thread recommending people to try it out??lol
:confused:
yes it was meant for web animation,regardless whether its being used for television.
I'm the Juvenile one?
:D now thats just funny coming from you Mr putting words in peoples mouths .
i said that for a laugh,and if u think that joke was juvenile,i'll just have to quote what u sed to me once...
ah isn't listening to your advice just sweet ;)
..........
Anyway i have to look into flash 8 more,and discover more improvements.
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When you can do vector renders in flash like this without filters then tell me who's juvenile.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
nice come back attempt phacker :D
May i ask though,whats so great about that? You could easily do that in flash without filters.infact...it even looks like it WAS done in flash.
what was that done in?
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They were created totally in Flash MX, using just the drawing tools.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Can you duplicate either of those in Flash 8 or any other program without using filters to aid you?
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
i don't understand? u mean could I do somethin like that in flash without filters? yes.
pretty easily actually,for the details u wud just zoom in,flash 8 drawings and colouring tools aren't much different.
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Well then we have a challenge show me something.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
You have 24 hours, which is a lot longer than either of those graphic took me. See what you can come up with, or pick a topic of your choice but with shadow and depth, and post it here. Without using filters! Strictly vector, and you can go to illustrator if you like but no using extrude or any of the filters included in it.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
He used gradients and an illustrator's eye to add texture. If he said he used Flash to create them, then he didn't resort to PS blurs and flares.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
uhm yes he did,cos he's sed so.
I shouldn't have to prove anything to you phacker,i don't work that way,when i work on an image in flash i'll show ya,but i ain't goin to work on sumthin just to prove a point.how much free time do u think i have? heh,i'm on a day off today.
and even if i did produce sumthin in 24 hrs,ur response would be one of two.
*thats not good*
*thats excellent,your proved me wrong*
and from the attitude i've gotten from u so far,i doubt it would be anything close to the first one.so that would be waste of disk space.
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You don't have to prove anything to me. But learn to see, learn what's important. And don't rely on filters they are a crutch. The challenge would have been fun though.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
the term *rely on filters* sounds a bit arrogant.
I don't even come from a vector background,i've been using photoshop for way longer,so i'm used to digipainting and using sum glows n blurs,so please...tell me...
do u think all disney.wb.dreamworks.pixar productions don't *rely* on filters? cos if so, you really shud do somemore research.
life isn't crisp vector land phacker.and ur talk of using the illustrators eye is pretty much off.
its like saying don't rely on the type of paintbrush your painting your image with,its all about seeing what u want to convey.
yaaay! i'm gunna go get huge brush thats as big as my head and try to do small details on my painting now. :rolleyes:
GO TRY FLASH 8 PEOPLE NEW FEATURES ARE EXCELLENT! :D
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Vectorland as you call it isn't totally crisp and however you guys like characterize it , it is just a matter of rendering. And if you were really familiar with sketching and drawing, you would know you can't pick up a custom brush and cover your drawing to make it perfect. Do you use pencil, charcoal or whatever and paper? Do you know how to see, or draw.
Skills and vision are what make drawings come alive, not filters. I made the previous drawings in Flash MX using it's drawing tools. Many of the professionals do rely on filters, but only after the underlying story is already told and the skeleton of the project is already there. So many of you are relying on effects to make your work special...it ain't going to hold up. Say what you want, rant rave, Photoshop isn't going to save you if you don't know how to see the vision.
I was a painter first. First with oils, later with acrylics, and water colors. You should try water color, it's a real test in restrictions.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
yep,i much prefer traditional drawings to the digital stuff
looks heres sumthin i've been working on recently in charcoal
*blah blah you would know you can't pick up a custom brush and cover your drawing to make it perfect.blah blah*
that is WHY digital tools where made so that u CAN do that.traditional art is totally different than digital,u can't be all up in sumones face saying basically what ur saying,and that is *wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah u can't do that traditionally so its not art*
digital and traditionally are too different mediums.get used to it.
:rolleyes:
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Some of your anatomy of the horse is off (in fact he seems to have extra legs, but maybe that was your goal), but I really like your charcoal. Nice to see some of your work without a filter on it.
They are also basic mediums, but if you don't know how to see "manually" or sketch "manually" you will have a hard time switching to computer. It can be done, but there are no shortcuts.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
the horse is growing like six legs and anatomy is purposly off,its a surrealist picture that explains evolution,but i won't get into that.
Back to flash 8......
its great,go try it.
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I think that to suggest that anyone should not use EVERY tool available to them in artistic pursuit (if they wish) is ridiculous at best..Just my two cents, not to discount anyones work but the reason those upgrades, new feature developments and things of this nature occur is because people have either requested them or find them useful IN SOME WAY...
Thats the exact reason that there are so many different tools; compositing, 2d, 3d, effects, and everything else under the sun.
PLEASE show me a few examples of practical successful professional animation studios (or whatever) that USE ONE SINGLE TOOL and thats it?:eek:
I mean isnt that what the point of "Computer" Animation is all about?
yep,thats more or less what i'm trying to explain to phacker.
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"Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi" is entirely done in Flash. :D
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
so let me get this straight, phacker's saying that if i want to do a focus pull, i'm supposed to animate it manually with a brush instead of just using a filter? that's madness. who has time for that? all noob was saying is that there are new filters in flash. period. i never got the part where he announced that filters were the artistic wave of the future.
http://ben-reynolds.com
Animation and Design
well exactly,but i've grown used to phacker,and he likes to debate allot.so i'm jus gunna move on..
in other news,
i can't believe i did this completly in flash 8
just a frame from a movie i'm working on.i'm so happy with the new features
there also a brush smoothin option now,so when u draw a line it won't *fix*
itself.
theres a brush gradient option so u can just draw gradients straight on the work area.
theres plenty more features,i suggest everyone check it out.
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For the longest time I was complaining about Flash not having a decent way of controlling frame interpolation (ie. a graph editor). They finally added one (according to their website anyway).
The funny thing is that recently I've only been doing frame by frame stuff and don't have much of a need for it now. Oh, well, at least it's there if I change up my style again.
And for the record, Flash was originally an animation program for the web that got hijacked by the Dot Com boom/bubble (along with dozens of other products who've lost their way like Media Cleaner, and Media 100).
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
Hmm.. well cool beans!
I thought there would at least be a bit of AE in that show.Its obviously stylistic (on purpose) and efficient and Im sure tha animators on that show are very talented but personally I dont get that show.It reminds me of the spike TV obstacle course show? I do dig Fosters though but my kiddos like both so what do I know?:p
Thanks for that,
swankaman
p.s. the AM stuff looks so damn cool (all you guys) Im jealous!
Im a broke ass so...
I'll probably just have to download the trial for myself eventually, but no time right now for experiments. Can anyone tell me, are the filter effects (particularly the blurring filter) tweenable? See what I'm asking? That would give you a really easy Rack-Focus. That would be sweet.
As to the vector/filter debate, I'll only add this: filters may well be a fine approach (and timesaver) for some situations; but others no. Be careful not to make all your artwork look like overly-airbrushed Disney cover art. Besides taking a performance hit, it will also blow rhinos.
Keep in mind that if you draw an image with enough vector shapes (esp. with gradient fills and softened edges), eventually it could be "heavier" to animate than if you had a bitmap of the same thing. I often "cheat" a move by swtiching out bitmapped (and sometimes motion blurred in Photoshop) versions of a complex vector object on inbetweens.
You just have to feel your way through some of these issues. What might be a small file size, might still actually demand some processor effort and thus gum up the works. --tn
Ted Nunes - www.tedtoons.com
yes,and it comes with tutorials telling you how to use blurred tweens.
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It's funny you mention this. One of the earlier articles showing off Flash 8 predicted that this use of filters would lead to a new era of "Skip Intro". Most developers often fail to realize that the majority of people out there don't have a computer fast enough to run Doom 3.
I'd be very hesitant to use these filters too much if I wanted my animation to stream properly. But it does help cut down on the number of pieces of software if you're going to video with it. I'll probably just stick with After Effects for filter application (I like it's timeline much better for that sort of work).
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
yes,but also,a majority of people do.u can't please everyone.
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?Two majorities?
As a content provider it's usually in one's best interest to try and please as many people as possible. Adding filters to stuff may (I don't know this for sure as I don't know the system requirements for them) be a quick way of weeding out an audience. That is if it isn't rendered out to a video and relies on the Flash player.
This is all hypothesis. Maybe they can implement it without a performance hit. My guess: Some will use the filters to great effect, doing great pieces of art with them. But on the other side, the web will be overloaded with lots of newbies who don't know how to animate using tons of flashy filter effects to cover up for not knowing what they're doing. Animations will slow to a crawl on all but the fastest machines as people use blending modes in unneccesary fashions (for instance, when normal painting would have sufficed). Flash has literally brought the lens flare to the hands of the amateur Flash animator.
Just a guess. I imagine we'll be seeing the effects of these filters in the next couple of months.
.
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
Sorry to change the subject a bit,but are you one of those guys who puts down lens flare for no particular reason? just cos everyone else does? or do you actually have something against it?
and as for flash,allota animators visit animators sites,and i doubt a digital animator will have a slow machine or internet connection,its just too neccasary these days.and the common man well,sorry,thats life i guess.
And yeh,heh,i agree,the bad thing is,everyone is gonna be using them,even the newbies.
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The thing I have against lens flares is that they're typically overused by people who don't know how to add drama to a shot without them. I've seen them used very well, but I've seen way more of them used without a good reason (like without a motivating light for instance). Like all filters they have their place and uses, but are often overused in place of actual artistic talent.
The animators are a relatively small crowd as compared to the "muggles" that I'd like to flock to my site. You don't get to be a Joe Cartoon or reach that viral status of "All your base" by making animations that only people with mega gaming machines can check out. I get more comments on my animations from high school teachers, friends of the family, and enthusiasts than I do from professionals. The "normal man" is the one I want to watch my film. I'd like as many normals watching my films as animators (more if possible). It's not about the fame, but I would like to be sure my films are available to as many people as possible.
I make my films to be seen. But that's me. Some people are fine only having the highest end computer users checking out their stuff. And that's fine, too. It's up to them, but it's something that we as artists should be aware of. For instance, I can only make my movie files so small and still look decent, cutting out most people with dial-up. It was a decision I had to make and limit my audience to, but I was aware of the limits of compression vs. file size and that high speed internet is still not something that everyone has.
It's a balancing act between pleasing everyone, and letting the technological limits getting in the way. Ultimately up to the individual artist.
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
If the *common man* hears enough good stuff about your work,i'm sure they would wait,people are actually getting allot more patient these days,mainly cos theres not much else to do on the internet other than *download*.
I want to attract all audiences too,but like i said before,u can't get everyone,and i'm sure a few filters in flash won't have that much effect...i hope.
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Absolutely, and some do. I aim for reasonable file sizes when possible, that's where Flash really excels, file size. I have DSL and it still drives me nuts when someone can't compress a 2-3 minute movie to under 20 MB. Decent file size and reasonable processor requirements just increase the likelihood that they'll be patient enough to sit through the entire film. Ah, the perils of the digital world.
Producing solidily ok animation since 2001.
www.galaxy12.com
Now with more doodling!
www.galaxy12.com/latenight
oh ..right?
then,i don't understand the point your making?
Maybe u think i meant that without the new filters flash is nothing?
:eek: cos if so,hell no,i've been using flash for a while now,and i luv it,these filters are just a bonus.
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What I am saying to you and people like Gabe is you don't need the filters you need to learn see what it is you want to convey and work from that. Don't sink into the filter game, if you do everything is going to start to look alike because everyone has access to the same filters and effects. Learn to see and render.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
no one sed u NEED filters,heck,i cud do without,but when you know how to use em thats when the become great,and not *played out* when everyone uses them
example.
x-disney animator adam phillips uses flash to create his backgrounds for his flash movies. *duh*
now for this one,he probably had to switch between photoshop and flash,just to get that blur for the water and the leaves.
in flash 8,he can do it much more easily just using the flash filters blur option.
Using the filters creativly will help your art look better.And from an artists perspective,things like glows and blurs are needed to convey the artists intentions,others wise u just have crisp images with no depth.
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