Harvey I for one do sincerely mourn the loss of life and their homeland amenities in Iraq, because of what we did with our actions. I have a hard time seeing how what we as American's did was justified.
I have a harder time seeing people write things like "what we Americans" did when only half the country agreed with the the decision to go, and none of the country had any say in the decision.
I don't know who else should claim responsibilty, it was our politicians and our military that carried out "shock and awe"...and god I hate the phrase and will until I die. I never agreed to the action and actively protested, but who should claim responsibility?
I don't know who else should claim responsibilty, it was our politicians and our military that carried out "shock and awe"...and god I hate the phrase and will until I die. I never agreed to the action and actively protested, but who should claim responsibility?
Keep track of your elected officials, what laws they write, what laws they pass, and what laws they fight againts then VOTE.
I can compartmentlalze the situation like this:
I don't agree with the U.S invading Iraq AND such acts of terrorism are never justified.
This terrible suicide bombing of London does not retroactively justify invading Iraq AND this extremist terrorism pre-existed the most recent war in Iraq and the Iraq situation is not a justification for something that can never be justified, terrorism.
This is how I felt after 9/11
(The Iwogima parody is a swipe/tip of the hat to Toronto's Andy Donato who did the same gag with another fanatic 25 years ago):
This is how I feel about the Iraq situation:
The same amount of innocent Iraqi civilians are being killed and maimed on a daily basis by Coalition occupiers and Iraqi Resistance. (Imagine the London bombings happening every day for 2 or 3 years to non-Christian, non-white people, and you have an idea.)
Innocents anywhere being bombed once is once too many. We've become children arguing who started it first.
In this turn of events , my heart goes out to the my fellow english speaking westerners, the British Londoners. Godspeed.
There is awful stuff happening all over the world, but I feel particularly bad about the Iraqi civilian deaths because my government is responsible for them.
It would be nice if we could just stay out of the Middle East, if that's possible: then, no more suicide bombings of western targets, no more 9-11s, no more 7-7s.
That probably won't happen until the Middle East runs out of oil. By then, we'll probably have bigger problems to deal with.
I've questioned the...........ahem "wisdom" of invading Iraq and installing a democratic government in that country from the start.
I mean...what bright boy came up with the idea of trying what amounts to a democratic experiment in a country surrounded by monarchies, theocracies and military dictatorships, all of whom have a vested interest in not allowing their citizens to see the benefits of having a say in goverment??
And the legality of the war is coming more starkly into question each day.
The dire and imminent threat iraq supposedly posed was a sham, the weapons of mass destruction ( which were at the cnetre of this supposed "imminent" threat) have never been found, and the ties to Alqueda have been seen to be extremely spotty. If anything Al Queda's presence in Iraq has been greater POST-invasion and regime change, than pre-invasion.
Funny how that worked out.
I maintain that the government realized that they needed more than anything to be SEEN to be doing something to combat a threat they are very ill-equipped to fight.
The US military is woefully lacking in expertise in low intensity conflicts in the part of the world that is Afghanistan, and has has almost non-existent assets or Humint ( Human Intelligence source--re: spies) in that are, simply because they didn't CARE about that region.
After the Talian and Northern Alliances drove the Soviet Union from Afghanistan, the US aid stopped cold--obstensibly because of the opium production issue. Even after the Taliban curtailed that on their own, the aid still wasn't forthcoming. Lotta resentments there.
Now the USA wants to find what is essentially ONE man, in the midst of two mountainous, largely tribal countries--and do so with a military/espionage machine that's going to be years in the making just to get the trust there for useful intel.
Its no wonder Iraq was invaded.
They saw ( and possibly quite rightly) US public would be very vocal about getting results quite quickly--not understanding that finding just one guy with a tremendous support infrastructure behind him is a nigh-impossible task.
When Porter Goss said that he knew where to find Bin Laden, I've no doubt in my mind he was correct in knowing where that man was.
But that was.........what........last week?
Week old......day old intelligence is very low grade.
Bin Laden can be shuttled from village to village, cave to cave, cliff-face to valley floor and how the hell would anyone find him?
I thinl the Bush cabinet realized this and relaized their political necks were on the chopping block--and this from a group that barely squeaked into power in TWO elections.
Then enter the enemy of convienience: Saddam Hussien and Iraq.
Slap a bunch of "logical" accusations against the guy--and they "work" because he's done the stuff before--and have at him.
Stir in some schlock and guffaws............sorry, SHOCK and AWE and presto, it looks like the fight's being taken to the terrorist enemy.
So effective is the bias against Iraq that even now, after its been shown there was next to NO links of any kind between Al Queda and Hussien, the American public polled STILL think that Hussien had "something" to do with 9/11.
No amount of money can buy a sales pitch like that.
And it was 100% wrong. Hussien was the loud mouth punk that was a contender.............once before, but after almost getting his lungs handed to him in Desert Storm he became a shadow afterwards.
My feelings were than within about five years one of his leiutenants would have shot him in the back and then the regime change every one hoped for would have happened "naturally". We might have even lucked out and gotten some idealistic fellow in the top slot and then some serious reforms could happen if he turned out of be receptive to the West.
But that's not in the cards now.
I think the tragedy in all this is that we've assured the instability of the Mid East for decades to come, assured that at least another generation of terrorists can find something to resent/hate about the West and almost guarantee that more of them and more of us will die in ever increasingly horrific attacks.
I just pray it will not be in London, or Paris, or Washington, or Toronto, or.....
(sigh)
—
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I flew to London on Thursday evening... A friend of mine who lives there told me about the explosions on messenger, I started panicking because, I tried calling another friend of mine to no avail... fortunately, she is a (as we say here) blessed child and was unharmed but, a friend of hers was in one of those trains. For a few hours I considered not flying out... But my friends in London all said "Why not? We've survived the first and second world war, plus the IRA".
I did go in the end, they picked up the pieces pretty quickly and by monday when I left everything was nearly back to normal... well, as normal as it can be after what happened! The only scary sight that I saw was a quite a few guards armed to their teeth around a highly fortified American embassy... go figure...
I've questioned the...........ahem "wisdom" of invading Iraq and installing a democratic government in that country from the start.
I mean...what bright boy came up with the idea of trying what amounts to a democratic experiment in a country surrounded by monarchies, theocracies and military dictatorships, all of whom have a vested interest in not allowing their citizens to see the benefits of having a say in goverment??
The Project for A New American Century, almost fifteen years ago. And most of the founders and board members are members of the Bush Administration/Cabinet or high level consultants. If you read their original papers, Iran will be next.
As to Wontobe, I thought this last presidential election would be just that, but look at who they gave us as a democratic candidate, I think the result was fixed from the start. I don't think the populus has any control over politics any longer. I did vote democratic but the choice between two skull and bones members was a little hard to swallow.
Which is why I chose neither. It was a bonus win actually -- the guy I align with more politically also happened to be a teeny tiny way to break 1% of the two-party system. Trillions of people my age, especially in college, got in major force to support Kerry, and to talk to some of them many didn't like either candidate (think back to those polls they did in early November where they asked people which belief corresponded with which candidate and almost 80% of the people got most of the answers completely backwards)...but they all agreed even if they voted third-party, it would be a "wasted" vote because either they'd get ridiculed by people who think that any third party can be broken down into one of the major two parties in some way or worse yet, that "it was just them" and so what power could it have?
Well, the "only me"s were in HUGE number. If they'd all done it, or worked together to make a new decision, imagine twenty million folks who didn't want a two-party guy actually voting for who they want. Suddenly 20 million "one person"s adds up to a hell of a lot of people. I wanted to be able to say I played the game, followed the rules, and voted for the guy I thought could do the best job, rather than use my privelege as a device. I understand the nature in doing so and it's not like it didn't make a difference between the two major candidates left. Different strokes.
Scattered I am registered GreenParty, and for two years I voted for them, but this last election I felt it was very important so I voted Democrat, but it didn't make any difference. The outcome was already decided.
As for the Project for a New American Century, folks if you haven't heard of it, they are the folks directing world politics and economics. They are all rich, and I am sure getting richer, so it's up to you to know who they are. Did you know Condi Rice has an oil tanker named after her. Who's pocket do you think she is in. Why did Colin Powell resign?
And realize we didn't attack until 2003. Who is making decisions?
I really feel Kerry threw the election. What possessed him to make his comments about the Vice President's daughter. I really think the fix was in. And the rich get richer and the little guy pays higher gas prices.
And as to staying on animation topics, if economics don't effect the jobs in that field, what does.
the elite in their insistence that our foreign policy
r e flect our principles. And the American people are
right. Our principles are fundamental to our national
strength. It is no accident that the most serious threats
to American interests today come from dictatorships,
in China, Iraq, Iran, Serbia, and North Korea. Under
Reagan, democracy bloomed in Latin America, in the
Philippines and South Korea, and eventually in Central
and Eastern Europe. No one today can doubt that
support for democracy was profoundly in our strategic
interest, as well as consistent with our principles.
Morality at home will be an issue over the next two
years. Morality in foreign policy should be, as well.
There is no middle ground between a decline in
U.S. power, a rise in world chaos, and a dangerous 21st
c e n t u r y, on the one hand, and a Reaganite reassertion
of American power and moral leadership, on the other.
Some Republicans think that what is needed is merely
better “management” of foreign policy, a more “adult”
approach to the world. But they are wrong. What is
needed, now as in 1980, is a complete reversal of the
current failed foreign policy and a restoration of a
foreign policy of American leadership and, yes, mast
e r y.
We wish there were already a conservative and
Republican consensus on this agenda. But there isn’ t ,
any more than there was a consensus in support of
R e a g a n’s agenda in the late 1970s. Republicans in Congress
and elsewhere need to criticize and attempt to
correct Clinton’s foreign policy over the next months
wherever possible. But the most significant intellectual
and political battles in the next two years won’t be
between Republicans and Clinton. They will be for the
mind of the Republican party. And it is not too much
to say that on the outcome of these battles will hinge
the possibility of successful American leadership for
the 21st century.
The Project for A New American Century, almost fifteen years ago. And most of the founders and board members are members of the Bush Administration/Cabinet or high level consultants. If you read their original papers, Iran will be next.
Oh, I know about this. My questions was somewhat rhetorical.
The puzzlement in all this is why invoke direct-action policies to change the region, when the subtle pervasive nature of progress ( internet and ease of communications) can do much the same thing?
The world has changed more in the last 100 years, due to communcation technologies, more than it has in all the previous centuries of human history combined.
The evolution of these counties into modern societies, mirroring something LIKE democracies, is inevitable as they embraces the convieniences of life like computers, cell phones and other items. Heck, I get more emails from people in places like India and Eygpt than ever before, and its not just spam.
Destabilizing a country that will naturally go through an upheavel on its own seems like a tremendous waste, especially when the off-shoot is more long-term resentment from the interference. Had the choice been not to inferere, the resentments would be far less.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't prosecute enemies, but agitants are not direct threats and should be left to their own internal implosions. Just be ready with help/aid at the tail end and everyone can, in theory, reap the benefits.
—
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Destabilizing a country that will naturally go through an upheavel on its own seems like a tremendous waste, especially when the off-shoot is more long-term resentment from the interference. Had the choice been not to inferere, the resentments would be far less.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't prosecute enemies, but agitants and not direct threats and should be left to their own internal implosions. Just be ready with help/aid at the tail end and everyone can, in theory, reap the benefits.
A m e n to that. I'm glad there's someone that thinks that.
its very sad what happened in UK,india is the country that suffrered and is still suffering fm terriorist attacks the most in the world.
unfortunately this is all the making of the cold war....the accident on UK was predicted by an indian astrologer a few months back he has predicted a 9/11 type attack on the US in aus.n collapse of US economy. :(
it will be very difficult for good muslims to live in UK,patriotic once they will not be trusted ,how can people who have grown up in UK do this to there country and countrymen....what happened to love 4 once's country.
may the soul of all innocent people killed in terrorist attacks across the world rest in peace.
The same amount of innocent Iraqi civilians are being killed and maimed on a daily basis by Coalition occupiers and Iraqi Resistance. (Imagine the London bombings happening every day for 2 or 3 years to non-Christian, non-white people, and you have an idea.)
Hopefully some of us have a few token tears left over for them.
Good point. My only corection is that I'm not sure that England is a Christian nation. It is secular. At the last census most people clamed to be "Jedi".
No we're not all Jedi, but neather are we all cristain, or all white.
I was saying that the Iraqis are non-Christian and non-white, generally; but, if clarification is needed, fine. (According to a 2001 census, 91% of British are white and 72% are Christian.)
The point I was making is that people (or, at least, Americans) seem to care more about others when they look like them, talk like them, and act like them.
If New Zealand had the oil and we were claiming they had WMDs and bombing their cities, I think Americans - who, like New Zealanders, are mostly white Christians - would be a little more horrified.
I am just back from Europe- I was teaching animation in Cologne, Germany on the day of the bombings.
I feel saddened at the loss of life in London, Iraq, and many other places in the world.
The "truth" about Iraq will come out in time. Unfortunately, ther Daily Show seems to be the only "news" program that is truthful ( in laughter) than any other on the tube. CNN is now airing a special edition of the Daily Show at 10:00 pm London time on their European network.
Like it or not while the U.S. is expending and flexing it's might in Iraq - China is slowly becoming the most powerful country - through it's huge 1.3 billion pop. and workforce and it's intertwined economy - with everyone including the U.S. The truth hurts.
Currently, my film project, OUR WORLD is nearing completion- it looks to premiere in Germany October 7th. I began it because I felt it will give folks an opportunity to talk about the world and its issues. The caviat that noone cam destroy the world (because the next person needs it) may bring about more discussion about we can solve the world's problems.
I hope all is well with everyone.
We need to be more tolerant with each other...thanks for all the comments.
The "truth" about Iraq will come out in time. Unfortunately, ther Daily Show seems to be the only "news" program that is truthful ( in laughter) than any other on the tube.
I totally agree. I learn more about world events from the Daily Show than all the cable news channels combined. It's sad. Very sad.
The same amount of innocent Iraqi civilians are being killed and maimed on a daily basis by Coalition occupiers and Iraqi Resistance.
[i] (Imagine the London bombings
happening every day
for 2 or 3 years
to non-Christian, non-white people,
and you have an idea.)[/i]
Hopefully some of us have a few token tears left over for them.
What I like is that instead of needlessly repeating redundant clips and info and padding it with bias or persuasions from people who decided yesterday they wanted to be an expert, all the news networks do is go "Squawk! Rabble rabble rabble!" and you don't even believe they're real people because they come across like the Yahoo boards...just totally ignorant of all known existence.
Then the Daily Show comes on and tells it like it is and you're suddenly going "Well, yah, at least someone can see it clearly. I wish common sense could become more, well, common!"
Even worse than that is the scumbaggery known as Fox News.
Here are two Fox News Channel ANCHORS after the London attacks:
Brit Hume: "My first thought when I heard -- just on a personal basis, when I heard there had been this attack and I saw the futures this morning, which were really in the tank, I thought, 'Hmmm, time to buy.'"
Hume's FIRST thought after hearing about this horrific tragedy was that it was time to buy futures.
And here's John Gibson: "By the way, just wanted to tell you people, we missed -- the International Olympic Committee missed a golden opportunity today. If they had picked France, if they had picked France instead of London to hold the Olympics, it would have been the one time we could look forward to where we didn't worry about terrorism. They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?"
These are the FNC ANCHORS. The LEADERS of their network. Can you imagine Tom Brokaw or Peter Jennings getting away with ANYTHING like this?
I can't think of words bad enough for these guys, but "low-life, scum sucking douche bags" comes to mind.
Even worse than that is the scumbaggery known as Fox News.
Here are two Fox News Channel ANCHORS after the London attacks:
Brit Hume: "My first thought when I heard -- just on a personal basis, when I heard there had been this attack and I saw the futures this morning, which were really in the tank, I thought, 'Hmmm, time to buy.'"
Hume's FIRST thought after hearing about this horrific tragedy was that it was time to buy futures.
And here's John Gibson: "By the way, just wanted to tell you people, we missed -- the International Olympic Committee missed a golden opportunity today. If they had picked France, if they had picked France instead of London to hold the Olympics, it would have been the one time we could look forward to where we didn't worry about terrorism. They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?"
These are the FNC ANCHORS. The LEADERS of their network. Can you imagine Tom Brokaw or Peter Jennings getting away with ANYTHING like this?
I can't think of words bad enough for these guys, but "low-life, scum sucking douche bags" comes to mind.
I totally agree with you. But it's the republican mindset. They have a stock portfolio to protect. And they sell the rest of the public on their ideas by saying it will make things cheaper in the long run. Yeah, like what they did with the energy/utility companies in California. Or the liability laws that curtail awards for the little guy, but don't do anything about corporate abuses. See you health care costs go down anyone?
But the other networks are just as bad by ignoring the real issues and focussing on things like sports and celebrities.
But the other networks are just as bad by ignoring the real issues and focussing on things like sports and celebrities.
The other networks are useless to be sure, but they are not just as bad. It's one thing to ignore the issues; it's quite another to tell the public that your first thought after the attacks was making money, and that you wish they would have attacked Paris because who cares about the French.
That's vile and loathesome. And these are their ANCHORS.
That's very true but they are trying to rile up there right wing/conservative/bible thumping constistuency which they fed an attitude about the French.
My Grandfather was French (and after he became a naturalized citizen served in the US Cavalary, stationed out of Pt. Arthur Texas, in the Spanish American War), and I learned in elementary history courses about the impact that the French made in the Revolutionary War, and also that they fought a valiant fight in WWII. But they have been painted as cowards and ineffective, because Iraq owes them billions and the collition that now has control does not want it known that debt is a reasonable expense of doing business. That's also the reason they picked fights with Germany and Russian. Iraq had racked up debts with these countries, which at some point should be paid, instead of funneling the money to Haliburton. The republicans don't want us to soften on that point it would compromise their financial holdings.
What's sad is they even attacked that fantastic sculpture in the New York Harbor, called the Statue of liberty. I've seen parodies about sending it to China. But for as long as I've been alive and when my grandparents came here it meant something, maybe it doesn't to these guys, shoot they didn't pay for it and I am sure their ancestors didn't come over in steerage. But to me it will always speak of the bond between France and the United States, and no media blitz can change that. And it stands for the fact that the little man can make his way here, but maybe that's what they want to destroy.
Here's an article to read, but make sure to read between the lines because Jim Baker is involved and if you don't know about his reputation do a google search, it should be informative.
TV news is mostly there for entertainment, not education; but there are still good news sources in print and online.
I like environmental news at places like www.enn.com .
Environmental news is rarely reported in the mainstream, and I can learn about all the fascinating ways in which we're being poisoned by factory pollutants.
If you want to read the news about America that the American press is too lazy or cowardly to report, try foreign press sources. There are a bunch linked to on www.wnnetwork.com .
If you find a blog you like (like Cartoon Brew or whatever the topic of interest), they will often link to a bunch of comprehensive news sources.
"token tears"
Get a life muppet!
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
Sorry, I was being sarcastic.
Sincere tears would be better.
Harvey I for one do sincerely mourn the loss of life and their homeland amenities in Iraq, because of what we did with our actions. I have a hard time seeing how what we as American's did was justified.
Pat
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
I have a harder time seeing people write things like "what we Americans" did when only half the country agreed with the the decision to go, and none of the country had any say in the decision.
I don't know who else should claim responsibilty, it was our politicians and our military that carried out "shock and awe"...and god I hate the phrase and will until I die. I never agreed to the action and actively protested, but who should claim responsibility?
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Keep track of your elected officials, what laws they write, what laws they pass, and what laws they fight againts then VOTE.
Same here! I know there probably are quite a few...
Spoooze!
I can compartmentlalze the situation like this:
I don't agree with the U.S invading Iraq AND such acts of terrorism are never justified.
This terrible suicide bombing of London does not retroactively justify invading Iraq AND this extremist terrorism pre-existed the most recent war in Iraq and the Iraq situation is not a justification for something that can never be justified, terrorism.
This is how I felt after 9/11
(The Iwogima parody is a swipe/tip of the hat to Toronto's Andy Donato who did the same gag with another fanatic 25 years ago):
This is how I feel about the Iraq situation:
Innocents anywhere being bombed once is once too many. We've become children arguing who started it first.
In this turn of events , my heart goes out to the my fellow english speaking westerners, the British Londoners. Godspeed.
There is awful stuff happening all over the world, but I feel particularly bad about the Iraqi civilian deaths because my government is responsible for them.
It would be nice if we could just stay out of the Middle East, if that's possible: then, no more suicide bombings of western targets, no more 9-11s, no more 7-7s.
That probably won't happen until the Middle East runs out of oil. By then, we'll probably have bigger problems to deal with.
I've questioned the...........ahem "wisdom" of invading Iraq and installing a democratic government in that country from the start.
I mean...what bright boy came up with the idea of trying what amounts to a democratic experiment in a country surrounded by monarchies, theocracies and military dictatorships, all of whom have a vested interest in not allowing their citizens to see the benefits of having a say in goverment??
And the legality of the war is coming more starkly into question each day.
The dire and imminent threat iraq supposedly posed was a sham, the weapons of mass destruction ( which were at the cnetre of this supposed "imminent" threat) have never been found, and the ties to Alqueda have been seen to be extremely spotty. If anything Al Queda's presence in Iraq has been greater POST-invasion and regime change, than pre-invasion.
Funny how that worked out.
I maintain that the government realized that they needed more than anything to be SEEN to be doing something to combat a threat they are very ill-equipped to fight.
The US military is woefully lacking in expertise in low intensity conflicts in the part of the world that is Afghanistan, and has has almost non-existent assets or Humint ( Human Intelligence source--re: spies) in that are, simply because they didn't CARE about that region.
After the Talian and Northern Alliances drove the Soviet Union from Afghanistan, the US aid stopped cold--obstensibly because of the opium production issue. Even after the Taliban curtailed that on their own, the aid still wasn't forthcoming. Lotta resentments there.
Now the USA wants to find what is essentially ONE man, in the midst of two mountainous, largely tribal countries--and do so with a military/espionage machine that's going to be years in the making just to get the trust there for useful intel.
Its no wonder Iraq was invaded.
They saw ( and possibly quite rightly) US public would be very vocal about getting results quite quickly--not understanding that finding just one guy with a tremendous support infrastructure behind him is a nigh-impossible task.
When Porter Goss said that he knew where to find Bin Laden, I've no doubt in my mind he was correct in knowing where that man was.
But that was.........what........last week?
Week old......day old intelligence is very low grade.
Bin Laden can be shuttled from village to village, cave to cave, cliff-face to valley floor and how the hell would anyone find him?
I thinl the Bush cabinet realized this and relaized their political necks were on the chopping block--and this from a group that barely squeaked into power in TWO elections.
Then enter the enemy of convienience: Saddam Hussien and Iraq.
Slap a bunch of "logical" accusations against the guy--and they "work" because he's done the stuff before--and have at him.
Stir in some schlock and guffaws............sorry, SHOCK and AWE and presto, it looks like the fight's being taken to the terrorist enemy.
So effective is the bias against Iraq that even now, after its been shown there was next to NO links of any kind between Al Queda and Hussien, the American public polled STILL think that Hussien had "something" to do with 9/11.
No amount of money can buy a sales pitch like that.
And it was 100% wrong. Hussien was the loud mouth punk that was a contender.............once before, but after almost getting his lungs handed to him in Desert Storm he became a shadow afterwards.
My feelings were than within about five years one of his leiutenants would have shot him in the back and then the regime change every one hoped for would have happened "naturally". We might have even lucked out and gotten some idealistic fellow in the top slot and then some serious reforms could happen if he turned out of be receptive to the West.
But that's not in the cards now.
I think the tragedy in all this is that we've assured the instability of the Mid East for decades to come, assured that at least another generation of terrorists can find something to resent/hate about the West and almost guarantee that more of them and more of us will die in ever increasingly horrific attacks.
I just pray it will not be in London, or Paris, or Washington, or Toronto, or.....
(sigh)
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
to the innocent British victims and families...
Splatman :(
SPLAT digital
I flew to London on Thursday evening... A friend of mine who lives there told me about the explosions on messenger, I started panicking because, I tried calling another friend of mine to no avail... fortunately, she is a (as we say here) blessed child and was unharmed but, a friend of hers was in one of those trains. For a few hours I considered not flying out... But my friends in London all said "Why not? We've survived the first and second world war, plus the IRA".
I did go in the end, they picked up the pieces pretty quickly and by monday when I left everything was nearly back to normal... well, as normal as it can be after what happened! The only scary sight that I saw was a quite a few guards armed to their teeth around a highly fortified American embassy... go figure...
"check it out, you know it makes sense!" http://miaumau.blogspot.com/
The Project for A New American Century, almost fifteen years ago. And most of the founders and board members are members of the Bush Administration/Cabinet or high level consultants. If you read their original papers, Iran will be next.
As to Wontobe, I thought this last presidential election would be just that, but look at who they gave us as a democratic candidate, I think the result was fixed from the start. I don't think the populus has any control over politics any longer. I did vote democratic but the choice between two skull and bones members was a little hard to swallow.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Which is why I chose neither. It was a bonus win actually -- the guy I align with more politically also happened to be a teeny tiny way to break 1% of the two-party system. Trillions of people my age, especially in college, got in major force to support Kerry, and to talk to some of them many didn't like either candidate (think back to those polls they did in early November where they asked people which belief corresponded with which candidate and almost 80% of the people got most of the answers completely backwards)...but they all agreed even if they voted third-party, it would be a "wasted" vote because either they'd get ridiculed by people who think that any third party can be broken down into one of the major two parties in some way or worse yet, that "it was just them" and so what power could it have?
Well, the "only me"s were in HUGE number. If they'd all done it, or worked together to make a new decision, imagine twenty million folks who didn't want a two-party guy actually voting for who they want. Suddenly 20 million "one person"s adds up to a hell of a lot of people. I wanted to be able to say I played the game, followed the rules, and voted for the guy I thought could do the best job, rather than use my privelege as a device. I understand the nature in doing so and it's not like it didn't make a difference between the two major candidates left. Different strokes.
Animation, animation, animation. (phew...gotta keep this on topic)
P.S. I didn't know about that PFNAC before, and now that I do I wish I was me in the past ;)
Scattered I am registered GreenParty, and for two years I voted for them, but this last election I felt it was very important so I voted Democrat, but it didn't make any difference. The outcome was already decided.
As for the Project for a New American Century, folks if you haven't heard of it, they are the folks directing world politics and economics. They are all rich, and I am sure getting richer, so it's up to you to know who they are. Did you know Condi Rice has an oil tanker named after her. Who's pocket do you think she is in. Why did Colin Powell resign?
Read this:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
and make sure to look at the date on the top and the signatures on the bottom.
Or this:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-013098.htm
And realize we didn't attack until 2003. Who is making decisions?
I really feel Kerry threw the election. What possessed him to make his comments about the Vice President's daughter. I really think the fix was in. And the rich get richer and the little guy pays higher gas prices.
And as to staying on animation topics, if economics don't effect the jobs in that field, what does.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Not to mention the loss of innocent life in both Iraq and other parts of the world. The military folks make a choice when they join up.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
You have to love these quotes written in 1998:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RepubFuture-Sept%207,%2098.pdf
And they made it come true.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Oh, I know about this. My questions was somewhat rhetorical.
The puzzlement in all this is why invoke direct-action policies to change the region, when the subtle pervasive nature of progress ( internet and ease of communications) can do much the same thing?
The world has changed more in the last 100 years, due to communcation technologies, more than it has in all the previous centuries of human history combined.
The evolution of these counties into modern societies, mirroring something LIKE democracies, is inevitable as they embraces the convieniences of life like computers, cell phones and other items. Heck, I get more emails from people in places like India and Eygpt than ever before, and its not just spam.
Destabilizing a country that will naturally go through an upheavel on its own seems like a tremendous waste, especially when the off-shoot is more long-term resentment from the interference. Had the choice been not to inferere, the resentments would be far less.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't prosecute enemies, but agitants are not direct threats and should be left to their own internal implosions. Just be ready with help/aid at the tail end and everyone can, in theory, reap the benefits.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
A m e n to that. I'm glad there's someone that thinks that.
its very sad what happened in UK,india is the country that suffrered and is still suffering fm terriorist attacks the most in the world.
unfortunately this is all the making of the cold war....the accident on UK was predicted by an indian astrologer a few months back he has predicted a 9/11 type attack on the US in aus.n collapse of US economy. :(
it will be very difficult for good muslims to live in UK,patriotic once they will not be trusted ,how can people who have grown up in UK do this to there country and countrymen....what happened to love 4 once's country.
may the soul of all innocent people killed in terrorist attacks across the world rest in peace.
Good point. My only corection is that I'm not sure that England is a Christian nation. It is secular. At the last census most people clamed to be "Jedi".
No we're not all Jedi, but neather are we all cristain, or all white.
Mike Futcher - www.yogyog.org
I was saying that the Iraqis are non-Christian and non-white, generally; but, if clarification is needed, fine. (According to a 2001 census, 91% of British are white and 72% are Christian.)
The point I was making is that people (or, at least, Americans) seem to care more about others when they look like them, talk like them, and act like them.
If New Zealand had the oil and we were claiming they had WMDs and bombing their cities, I think Americans - who, like New Zealanders, are mostly white Christians - would be a little more horrified.
Hello,
I am just back from Europe- I was teaching animation in Cologne, Germany on the day of the bombings.
I feel saddened at the loss of life in London, Iraq, and many other places in the world.
The "truth" about Iraq will come out in time. Unfortunately, ther Daily Show seems to be the only "news" program that is truthful ( in laughter) than any other on the tube. CNN is now airing a special edition of the Daily Show at 10:00 pm London time on their European network.
Like it or not while the U.S. is expending and flexing it's might in Iraq - China is slowly becoming the most powerful country - through it's huge 1.3 billion pop. and workforce and it's intertwined economy - with everyone including the U.S. The truth hurts.
Currently, my film project, OUR WORLD is nearing completion- it looks to premiere in Germany October 7th. I began it because I felt it will give folks an opportunity to talk about the world and its issues. The caviat that noone cam destroy the world (because the next person needs it) may bring about more discussion about we can solve the world's problems.
I hope all is well with everyone.
We need to be more tolerant with each other...thanks for all the comments.
Thanks,
Larry
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
I totally agree. I learn more about world events from the Daily Show than all the cable news channels combined. It's sad. Very sad.
Company website
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The same amount of innocent Iraqi civilians are being killed and maimed on a daily basis by Coalition occupiers and Iraqi Resistance.
[i] (Imagine the London bombings
happening every day
for 2 or 3 years
to non-Christian, non-white people,
and you have an idea.)[/i]
Hopefully some of us have a few token tears left over for them.
What I like is that instead of needlessly repeating redundant clips and info and padding it with bias or persuasions from people who decided yesterday they wanted to be an expert, all the news networks do is go "Squawk! Rabble rabble rabble!" and you don't even believe they're real people because they come across like the Yahoo boards...just totally ignorant of all known existence.
Then the Daily Show comes on and tells it like it is and you're suddenly going "Well, yah, at least someone can see it clearly. I wish common sense could become more, well, common!"
Even worse than that is the scumbaggery known as Fox News.
Here are two Fox News Channel ANCHORS after the London attacks:
Brit Hume: "My first thought when I heard -- just on a personal basis, when I heard there had been this attack and I saw the futures this morning, which were really in the tank, I thought, 'Hmmm, time to buy.'"
Hume's FIRST thought after hearing about this horrific tragedy was that it was time to buy futures.
And here's John Gibson: "By the way, just wanted to tell you people, we missed -- the International Olympic Committee missed a golden opportunity today. If they had picked France, if they had picked France instead of London to hold the Olympics, it would have been the one time we could look forward to where we didn't worry about terrorism. They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?"
These are the FNC ANCHORS. The LEADERS of their network. Can you imagine Tom Brokaw or Peter Jennings getting away with ANYTHING like this?
I can't think of words bad enough for these guys, but "low-life, scum sucking douche bags" comes to mind.
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I totally agree with you. But it's the republican mindset. They have a stock portfolio to protect. And they sell the rest of the public on their ideas by saying it will make things cheaper in the long run. Yeah, like what they did with the energy/utility companies in California. Or the liability laws that curtail awards for the little guy, but don't do anything about corporate abuses. See you health care costs go down anyone?
But the other networks are just as bad by ignoring the real issues and focussing on things like sports and celebrities.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
The other networks are useless to be sure, but they are not just as bad. It's one thing to ignore the issues; it's quite another to tell the public that your first thought after the attacks was making money, and that you wish they would have attacked Paris because who cares about the French.
That's vile and loathesome. And these are their ANCHORS.
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My Animation Blogspot Site
That's very true but they are trying to rile up there right wing/conservative/bible thumping constistuency which they fed an attitude about the French.
My Grandfather was French (and after he became a naturalized citizen served in the US Cavalary, stationed out of Pt. Arthur Texas, in the Spanish American War), and I learned in elementary history courses about the impact that the French made in the Revolutionary War, and also that they fought a valiant fight in WWII. But they have been painted as cowards and ineffective, because Iraq owes them billions and the collition that now has control does not want it known that debt is a reasonable expense of doing business. That's also the reason they picked fights with Germany and Russian. Iraq had racked up debts with these countries, which at some point should be paid, instead of funneling the money to Haliburton. The republicans don't want us to soften on that point it would compromise their financial holdings.
What's sad is they even attacked that fantastic sculpture in the New York Harbor, called the Statue of liberty. I've seen parodies about sending it to China. But for as long as I've been alive and when my grandparents came here it meant something, maybe it doesn't to these guys, shoot they didn't pay for it and I am sure their ancestors didn't come over in steerage. But to me it will always speak of the bond between France and the United States, and no media blitz can change that. And it stands for the fact that the little man can make his way here, but maybe that's what they want to destroy.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Here's an article to read, but make sure to read between the lines because Jim Baker is involved and if you don't know about his reputation do a google search, it should be informative.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/baker_12-16-03.html
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
TV news is mostly there for entertainment, not education; but there are still good news sources in print and online.
I like environmental news at places like www.enn.com .
Environmental news is rarely reported in the mainstream, and I can learn about all the fascinating ways in which we're being poisoned by factory pollutants.
If you want to read the news about America that the American press is too lazy or cowardly to report, try foreign press sources. There are a bunch linked to on www.wnnetwork.com .
If you find a blog you like (like Cartoon Brew or whatever the topic of interest), they will often link to a bunch of comprehensive news sources.