Helo, i am starting an animation studio and have afew projects in
mind and was wondering if anyone would work on some movie projects with NO pay. if you animate just for passion please contact me at chargav@earthlink.net
thank you :confused:
Looking for help
By charliegavin | Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 4:56am
#1
Looking for help
Charlie, are these projects for profit?
If so then there are some issues that you might want to consider.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I had a call a couple months ago from a woman who never worked in animation let alone film of any kind asking me if I would like to animate a feature :eek: for her for free, she'd supply the "ideas".
I will never ever work for free but it occurred to me, and I told her likewise, if I did we would be have to be equal partners, I not being paid wouldn't be an employee therefore i should be allowed carte-blanche artistic interpretation..because her directing me with no experience makes less sense than me telling her how to write..or however she was gonna realize these "ideas".
In this day and age of Flash and Maya, I don't know why anyone, including students, need another's shingle to animate under for some kind of work experience legitamacy. I don't know why if you are indeed an animator you need someone to animate for you. If it's a commercial project then as a business shouldn't you alott some pay for hiring? If it's indy couldn't you do it yourself? Explain why an artist needs you.
P.S-Kids, passion and pay are not exclusive of one another.
:cool:I need help because i am just 1 animator and have a full length faeture in mind.im only 1 person and i need help. these movies are for profit though, and i will split the profit with anyone who joins me.:cool:
I hate to be the naysayer here but a feature length animation will take more than just a few people and will takes years to finish.
Companies like Square Soft and Big Idea have closed up shop due to the financial undertakings of a feature film.
Just curious but what type background do you have? Have you worked in a production setting? Do you know the pipeline?
I applaud you for thinking big but at the same time you have to be realistic.
ed (no relation)
Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida
Just speaking as a impartial observer with a bit of experience in this avenue, I have done at least 3 of these "volunteer projects" and granted I got to meet some cool people, exchange some ideas and actually learn quite a bit ....BUT!To this date they havent panned out in actual paying gigs, future employment or anything of that nature..Last year I got to do some game animation cycles for a small online game and made a whopping $600 bucks!Woo hoo!
Thats not really my idea of progress.Be careful!Its a very easy thing to buy into and do some work that may actually be used by the other party, never to be heard from again...
Id do it all again for the experience just not as many,with a family it doesnt really make sense to work for free,(thats more along the lines of a hobby) passion or not!
swankaman
when i say 'animation' i mean mainly 3d :rolleyes:
Speaking for myself, I'd have to say a lot of us are in a similar boat. (how was that for contradicting myself?)
Meaning that I myself came here with some dim hopes of eventually finding some folks interested in participating in my 2D adventure. Coupla things I decided to do first:
[list]work on it more myself to get a better idea of my process and the concept[/list]
[list]get a solid handle on the software I wanted to use[/list]
[list]hang out and let folks get to know me a little, give 'em an idea what I was doing[/list]
[list]get to know the folks on the board and where they hail from[/list]
I really can't remember how long I've been hanging out at this particular board, but I can honestly say that as much as I'd love to have some help on my project, I don't have the experience, the free time, or the connections to move forward working with others at this point. I also felt folks would rather have an idea of my resume first, and that a more focused pitch would be necessary.
That's just me, though. I have no idea where you're coming from (but I know where sunny turlock is!!), what your experience is, etc, but try hanging out for a while and see who turns up as a kindred mind/spirit. I think that in a creative venture such as yours, one important piece of the puzzle would be working with like minds (remember algebra--"combine like terms"). It'd be a drag to get three or four months into production and have a falling out over some issue, or of who's driving the ship, or whatever.
The more I work on my project, the more I've sort of resigned myself to the long haul on it, since I can't even pay for an IP attorney to help me protect my idea and set up work agreements with people who would potentially be in it for a piece of the eventual pie, let alone pay people for work or software beyond my own needs.
Cartoon Thunder
There's a little biker in all of us...
Reason I mention that there are issues to consider is the simple fact that if the project gets off the ground, who reaps the rewards?
Money changes the axis of everything--its a given.
If the end result of the project is for profit, are contracts going to be written up?
If not, why?
If, by some chance, the projects reaps a profit, or any kind of return, then there's automatic issues with those whose work is used in it. Issues of ownership and entitlement, and all kinds of other legal ramifications.
Are you prepared for this worker to challenge that--because they'd be well within their rights to do so?
If a contract is called for, then where is the incentive to sign the thing if there is no profit out of it? The old saw that the participant gets the work "for their portfolio" is nonsense because they can do all that work for themselves anyway, and exclusively reap whatever rewards come from it.
Signing ones rights away to provide service without payment is akin to a thing that Abe Lincoln abloished a long time ago...
And if profit is promised--how is it enforced? Lordy, I've worked for enough folks that promised pay and failed to deliver--leaving me with zero means to recoup for my services rendered.........because they had NOTHING I could recoup. That's a raw deal.
A business plan is necessary here, even if you are't truly planning on paying anyone. Its has to be treated like a legal business endeavour anyway, especially if you bring in another party to work on it-with or without pay.
If there is a time-line, how do you reconcile meeting that deadline without incentives like pay?
As a business, you can incur a loss anyway, in paying the help, and use that as a tax deduction. In essence, you lose nothing in the end..............but I make this statement over and over in posts like this.
I'm ranting a bit here, but I see these kinds of "offers" over and over again, and they strike me as so pointless. I say that because its pretty clear those making these kinds of "job" offers have NOT done their homework--that alone making the offer quite unattractive. Anyone with a shred of business sense can see that.
Sadly, money is the grease that makes the world of productivity go around.
My advice is offer even a small token amount to hedge against the sting of doing it for free. I'm not so snide to suggest NOT doing the project, but think about the whole deal here.
Even a dollar a foot of animation would be better than nothing at all.
I'm not trying to be coy here, but has anyone ever heard of features actually been made by one or two people?
Only one I know of is Richard Williams Theif and the Cobbler (or am I thinking of some other title???) Given all these job offers I read in forums like this to do the same dang thing...................for free..........I dunno.
I'm still waiting for one of them to come to light.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but anyone reading this would probably appreciate being told the truth, rather than be strung along.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Cases in which I would work for free:
Church or favorite charitable organization needs a segment.
Working with an animator friend on an independent project.
Work for myself.
I've done the first and latter.
Your so right, Ken. Usually these posts, which seem the rule rather than the exception, seem to be posted by those who haven't done their homework and maybe assume it's easy...especially with that magic box....we just must intiate a command and the magic box does it:rolleyes: .
I don't know why I don't see this in any other professions other than the arts ...to do things for free.
Because I enjoy it I shouldn't be paid? How dysfunctional is that?
It's bad enough in the cheap paying world without artists affirming to employers that they are worthless and so's their work.
AAAAMMEENNN!
all i am saying is i am asking for some volunteers to help with a project! these movies are for profit and anyone who helps me will share in it.
Chargav@earthlink.net
Its all good Charlie,
but the first sentence was....
Helo, i am starting an animation studio and have afew projects in
mind and was wondering if anyone would work on some movie projects with NO pay.
That leads me (at least) to believe.....No pay? These threads and "job" offers show up here to no end and people do get tired of working for free?Whats so hard to understand about that???Personally I didnt think the responses were that far out of the realm of "polite" amigo.
swankaman
Charlie.
You not the first to show up at a forum with little to no posts under their belt and offer what is from volunteer to slave labour under the heading of a job or collaboration or help.
If I needed help I would be specific about the project, give examples (links) of work thus far (to show I've done the heavy lifting), and I would pay at least minimum wage* (if they are in-house) and be ready to pay overtime. If I wasn't ready to pay ot then set a deadline within a reasonable time at authorised hours. For freelance telecommuters I'd have to settle for a payrate per second despite my personal dislike of doing so (a second of a ball dropping is not the same as a second of Ben Hur crowd scene, there's my dislike). But I would pay.
Even these dubious "ideas people" who show up first post need to qualify themselves specifically. They are an insult as their regard is what they haven't realised in their heads is somehow more valuable than the animation that they believe we simply pull out of our sphincter.
Still, I don't know why I would want an absolute stranger hundreds of miles away working on my idea if it is so precious. And I don't know why I would want to for free when I have ideas coming out the yinyan and my only obstacle is time. I don't understand why anyone would collaborate unless one knows their co-collaborator very well.
It's the artisitic version of getting in a car with the stranger with candy.
I also come from an appreciation for modern technology from a time when I was student when it was dauntingly herculean to do a few seconds of animation on ones own to a time when it is easier to realise animation. Notice I said the realisation is easier. The task itself of animation is not any easier, I still have the same software between my ears for that. It is possible to do it yourself.
So that's where I'm coming from. I'm just weary, that's all. And these are my kid gloves.
(*independant project. We're not talking commercial project. Pay is a given in that respect)