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Sorry Political:

But the more that comes out, the more we know something could have been done on 9/11/01. And now the American government is arguing that we can keep detainees secret from the the rest of the world for security reasons...anyone else have a problem with this????? I personnally want to know the details. I want to see the stock portfolios of all those involved in making decisions...am I the only one? Someone is making money and it's not me.

I want to know which house members, senators and adminstrative/cabinet members stand to benefit. I think that's only fair. "Who has an interest"? surely there are investigative reporters that could get that information. I for one am sick of the corporate interests buying favor.

This smacks of the Enron tapes....I live in California, my bill quadrupled during what they called an "energy crisis", and they told me it was because we hadn't built new plants...guess what they had closed functional plants in the previous years for spurious reasons and people were laid off. I think I may move to Missouri (the "Show Me" state).

I also have a problem with brutalizing prisoners. Thought we were fighting the good fight. Maybe the "Project for a New American Century" didn't think it was going fast enough. Maybe they should be accountable? "Fat Chance"!

Pat.

phacker's picture
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I do hope you realize that you're talking about our nation's heroes. If an American soldier is forcing an Iraqi soldier or civilian to strip, and sodomizing him with a broomstick, it must be a heroic act, because American soldiers are automatically heroes, regardless of how many Iraqi civilians they torture and murder. They are - after all - "our boys."

Maybe Swankaman, Splatman, or even Mike Savage-man will pop in and tell you why you're a traitor.

P.S. This ain't animation-related. Instead, see if you can locate some cartoon characters who enjoy torturing, sodomizing, and murdering civilians. So far I haven't found any cartoon villians that evil, but I'll keep hunting. :)

I do hope you realize that you're talking about our nation's heroes. If an American soldier is forcing an Iraqi soldier or civilian to strip, and sodomizing him with a broomstick, it must be a heroic act, because American soldiers are automatically heroes, regardless of how many Iraqi civilians they torture and murder. They are - after all - "our boys."

I am hoping that these words from Harvey where meant to be ironic.

However, if their comments are a true reflection of their opinions then I suggest they need to get educated and ask themselves some serious moral questions. Torture is torture and shouldn't be condoned in any circumstances. The attitude that just because they are 'our boys' should not give them free reign to carry out atrocities.

The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]

Sorry, I was being sardonic. I guess Phacker caught me at a bad time.

My apologies to our resident right-wingers, Swank and Splat, as well.

That's a relief. I thought you had turned into a ulta right wing gun waving cult member.

The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]

Dc 9/11

my question is:

why is it that DC 9/11 didn't get as much press as Farenheit 9/11 is getting?

if we're lucky that will come out in the theaters in conjunction with moore's film. i haven't seen it but i bet it's fantastic!

that's sarcasm.

I think Michael Moore is quite corny sometimes, but hey, people are listening to him. I haven't seen anyone else get so much attention for criticizing the government in a long long time.

I hope more people show up behind his success, I don't think he's the best person to do that kind of comment, but if he's doing and people are listening and paying attention to "our" side, I'm all for that.

Maybe Noam Chomsky would like to make an animation movie :)

Peace on Earth

Hello.

Everyone should watch Harmon and Ising's PEACE ON EARTH - now that's animation related...

Thanks.

Yeah. And Norman McLaren's "Neighbours".

And Paul Grimault's "The King and the Mockingbird".

I saw "Peace on Earth" a couple of years ago on Christmas eve about 2:30 am, when I had cable. It's worth seeing. It's a classic and leaves a lasting impression.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

well maybe..

Maybe we should just chop their heads off (film it, post it on the internet for their families and friends to see)as that seems to be the "moral equivelant" or "Just Punishment"to the prison abuse case.Hey By the way Harvey, when will the government leaders of those countries whose citizens commit these acts actually step up and persue charges as the US has?Hey I wonder if Michael Moore (your hero) will make a film about this?I love the way you present you case as well!Someone asks you hard questions and you either change the subject or post a political "cartoon" (not to mention you lovely likeness in so many forms!) Sardonic?How bout just plain classless, i think thats the word your looking for.Noticed you never say an ill word towards people who kill Americans on a regular basis????Selective judgement there eh?
swankaman

Politics... ouch... I think I'll sit this one out... hehe :D

"Maybe we should just chop their heads off (film it, post it on the internet for their families and friends to see)as that seems to be the "moral equivelant" or "Just Punishment"to the prison abuse case."

That isn't right, and neither is the abuse in the prisoner of war situations. But why is beheading more vicious then the electric chair, hanging or gassing? The western worlds and cultures are not saints, and our methods are not more humane, only less visible. It's time it all stopped!

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I know I am staying the hell away from this conversation.... If I were to get involved, it would probably just develop into a heated arguement with a certain someone.

Pretty sad when we cannot share our personal views without worrying about who we are going to piss off, causing them to call us trolls...

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Wade, I'll called "pax" along time ago. With the new board and your new handle, it's a new place and era. Go for it. I hold no personal animousity towards you.

Pat

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Swank I am not following you what do you mean by this:

(kinda like the so called "arab street", killing is all good when its American blood)

What are you referring to when you say "arab street"?

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Actually, it is not even you that I am worried about, Phacker. I too am enjoying the peace I share with you. Not mentioning any names, but I have a certain on-going arguement with a different member. A certain someone who seems to know it all... Again, no names mentioned.

And Swanka..... You keep calling Harvey a girl... What's up with that, mate??? Greg is a boy's name, no?
Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Get over it, Wade. And watch it with the never-ending flame-baiting. That's how those stupid fights get started.

Mike Savage!?!

So we had a few beers together...is that so wrong?
(he's my huggy-bear!) ;)

Splatman :D

Flame baiting?

Not mentioning any names, but I have a certain on-going arguement with a different member. A certain someone who seems to know it all... Again, no names mentioned.

By now, aren't we all sick of this obnoxious months-old grudge that you drag into every other thread? It's extremely silly. Move on with your life.

Rather presumptuous... I mentioned no names. :confused:

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

By now, aren't we all sick of this obnoxious months-old grudge that you drag into every other thread? It's extremely silly
Wow!Project much?
Word on the Arab street Phacker.The buzz, polls, news you name it?I surely didnt see any Iraqi "civilians" in the pictures of the burnt torsos while people were celebrating flashing victory signs huh?Al Jizzys' history speaks for itself.Does it bother any of you that Irans parliment opens each meeting with "Death to America" as its opening statement?I can go on but i think you should understand.If you and Harvey think the terrorists are going to sit down, have a picnic and sing freaking "Cum ba yah" with you youre sadly mistaken.They want to kill democrats, liberals and republicans equally.
psswink "in other words" and "indirectly" are your words.I simply am asking when will other leaders and governments be held to the same level of scrutiny and critisism?Accountability seems to be a reoccuring theme when referring to "our boys" and leaders right?So is America the only country to be responsible for the actions of its citizens?Critisism is fine; i never said otherwise.Ive even said on this forum i hope dubya doesnt win!Thanks for your opinion, Ill be doing my part this year by voting.Maybe it is Old school to love your country and feel a sense of duty to the rest of the country by serving..I guess that escaped some of you this past memorial day?If it were not for men such as those who served so bravely this world would be a much different place.
swankaman

Rather presumptuous... I mentioned no names. :confused:

Golly, you mean I can say rotten things about a person and describe him in detail and it's acceptable behavior as long as I don't mention his name?

Well, right on, Wade! That's quite a discovery. I'll have to give that a whirl.

Oh, and by the way, personally I get along fine with most people on the forum and if I have an argument with someone, they're usually big enough to make amends. (like Swank or Splat, for example. I get in debates with them all the time, but we always laugh it off in the end.)

However, there IS this absolutely rotten individual who - if you have a debate with him - he will let it eat at him for months. He will stew in his own juices and take jabs at you at every opportunity.

If you have a debate with him, he will often make it personal, attacking your credibility, your profession, and your character, while bragging about his own skill and knowledge.

If someone mentions they love an animated movie - like anime, for example - he can't resist diving in a trashing that adored animation style or animated feature. Can you imagine a person behaving in such a manner, face to face? Such a person would have no friends! Can you imagine if I was at dinner with someone and I completely trashed their tastes and personal favorites? What an awful, awful way that would be to behave.

So the unnamed person sounds pretty twisted so far, right? Well, in addition to all that, this person just out-and-out LIES about other forum members. You can say something as harmless as "I like 2D animation" and he will twist it into an attack on the animation industry.

Yes, this guy - a Canadian, I believe - is one dumb lunatic, but I won't mention him by name. Therefore, this doesn't qualify as an attack on his character.

my, my, I see Hammy Hamster taking a break from his usual unfunny jibberish and is once again causing a ruckus with his name calling and "look mommy I can spell" BIG TYPE (which he seems to be able to switch on and off depending on his degree of petulance)..once again I have to ask why the moderator hasn't banished him from the board the same way others have been? (what is he, your boyfriend or something??)

Pull my finger!!!

Sorry...That had nothing to do with animation.

Saaaaaaaaayyyy......!

Splatman :D

eek

i'm new here, but the endless bickering between Wade and Harvey makes this forum an unpleaseant place to visit...both of you guys should be spanked with a prickly cactus... :eek: :eek:

do everyone a favor and ignore aech other's posts COMPLETELY ( ignore the indirect attacks or sarcasm )...it's not that hard, and it builds character.

:cool:

Harvey and Wade, take it to the sandbox where you two can have a pissing contest all you like. Thats what it's for.

Swank, as for Iraqi leaders controling and holding their soldiers up to the Genieva Conventions, I think we have their leader. Saddam? What ever happened to him by the way? Both the Iraqi soldiers who burned the US soldiers and civilians and hung them on the bridge, as well as all the military, AND civilian contractors involved with the prisoner abuse, should be rung up for War Crimes. "Following orders" didn't work for the Nazi's at Nuremburg (sp?) and it SHOULDN'T work in this case. We always cry 'foul' when it happens to Americans, or westerners, but we go and do the same thing.

Phacker, I think the main difference between gas chambers, and the Iraqi's beheading those people, is that it wasn't a swift beheading, like a swift swing of an ax. They sawed at the guy's neck for something like a minute with a barely sharp knife till his head came off. I'm not saying either are wrong or right, but I think that is a big difference.

All this wouldn't be happening if we didn't invade Iraq in the first place. Never underestimate people defending their family and homeland. The British learned that in the Revolutionary war, America learned that in Viet Nam, the Soviet Union learned that in Afganastan, and it looks like we forgot Viet Nam, and are learning it yet again in Iraq.

Wether it was intensional or not, it was a briliant military stragegy to let the US army waltz through Iraq unopposed an into every major Iraqi city. I don't know if the Iraqi military leaders knew this, but it sure looks as though US military leaders don't know that a conventional military will never do well in an urban arena. No matter how advanced they think they are. It's ironic that the US military started off as a guerilla fighting force in the Revolutionary war, and now 200 some odd years later, we've turned into the British. We just march along in big open fields with our infantry in front and canon's blasting from the rear, and when the other side doesn't fight the same way, we call them names and say they aren't playing fair.

Oh well. I'll get back to changing the world by making drawings move.

The Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

Wise words ape, wise words

The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]

okay

Ape I dont think i said soldiers but thats cool.Granted we have Saddam but I dont just mean iraq when I say other countries and govts (plural)They should all pay for indecent acts against other humans under their control and/or influence.

I dont think I ever said a word of approval for those acts ;if someone thinks that you could not be further from the truth.I dont like the continiuos cyle of one sides viewpoint from individuals who claim to be objective.American soldiers (the good ones that is..) deserve a bit more respect if nothing else from thier own citizens who they are there to protect.My whole point is that it seems to be some people really dont care about our own countrymen?Simple questions like did Saddam harbor terrorists never get answered and people who trash america like Michael Moore get idolized?!Yet when the guys from Michaelmoorehatesamerica want to interview him guess what he said?There also seems to be a rationale (among people in the region) from the reports Ive read about a guy having his head sawed off to pay for humiliation suffered by Iraqis (that he didnt commit BTW)Its a crock, period.Americans dont celebrate and having a freaking parade when Iran has 30k people die in a quake, we dont burn other countires flags and burn effigies of their leaders, we certainly wouldnt all pose with a charred Iraqi civilian corpse as if we'd won the freakin lottery.

"Americans dont celebrate and having a freaking parade when Iran has 30k people die in a quake, we dont burn other countires flags and burn effigies of their leaders, we certainly wouldnt all pose with a charred Iraqi civilian corpse as if we'd won the freakin lottery."

I remember all the hoopla over "shock and awe". Do you really think no innocents were killed or maimed during that. But then our government doesn't count their losses.

As to the beheading: Not every electrocution, gassing or hanging here has gone without a hitch, we just don't televise them.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I agree with MatrixChix. The bickering can make the forum an unpleasant place and certainly has driven some valuable members away.

I'm constantly being baited by scum like Meriwether, but I don't respond, so I think I deserve some extra smileys for THAT self-control. :) :D

For months, Wade has baited me dozens of times with his "I won't mention the person's name, but I fight with him all the time and he sucks" flames that he inserts randomly into many threads, but this is the first time I've responded. Here are some more smileys for THAT control which expired yesterday evening. :) :D

personally...

Yknow what?Ive tried and failed to control my "political" head from my animation head.Ive become what I loathe about many forums.(and no its not a troll!)
I issue from this point on an apology to the entire forum.
Even you Harvey Human.I dont care anymore about trying to convince anyone of anything remotely close to politics.Its like banging your heed to a brick wall; a waste of time and doesnt really feel so good!I give, Im going to adopt a new motto and try to take my advice first and foremost.
"Shut up and Draw something".
Once again Im sorry if Ive offended anyone be it, liberal, dem, whatever....Ive been on many forums and debated these subjects over and over to no avail, for me personally this was an escape from the war machine and endless media blitz.Later,
swankaman

If you have a debate with him, he will often make it personal, attacking your credibility, your profession, and your character, while bragging about his own skill and knowledge.

I have NOT ONCE asked you about your exprerience or credibilty. I believe you are confusing me with someone else. As for "bragging" about my skills and knowledge, yes, I do have both, skills and knowledge, and lets not forget a helluva lot of experience... I have gotten them from many years of hard work, and when little pricks such as yourself undermine them and tell ME how this business works, I make them known. There... NOW I have said something about your credibility (in a roundabout way). YOU HAVE NONE!

If someone mentions they love an animated movie - like anime, for example - he can't resist diving in a trashing that adored animation style or animated feature. Can you imagine a person behaving in such a manner, face to face? Such a person would have no friends! Can you imagine if I was at dinner with someone and I completely trashed their tastes and personal favorites? What an awful, awful way that would be to behave.

While you may think of me as an unhappy troll-like individual, there are a GREAT many others who would disagree with you. There are a great many people who appreciate me voicing my opinions freely, rather than being a two-faced prick. If I were talking with anyone FACE TO FACE, YES, I would tell them my views of Japanimation. I THINK IT SUCKS ASS! But, as I have also said after making my views of the genre known, that is my opinion, and I think I am entiltled to it, as are people who like it. I don't believe that I trashed anyone who argued FOR Japanimation. By the way... I have PLENTY of friends, in this industry and out, regardless of my "awful behavior".

So the unnamed person sounds pretty twisted so far, right? Well, in addition to all that, this person just out-and-out LIES about other forum members. You can say something as harmless as "I like 2D animation" and he will twist it into an attack on the animation industry.

Again, I believe you are mistaking me for someone else. If you care to remember... I AM A DAMNED 2D ANIMATOR!!! Why would I "attack" someone for saying they like my genre?!?!?! But then... I have said I am a 2D animator, so I may be lying, seeing that I am such a "liar".

Yes, this guy - a Canadian, I believe - is one dumb lunatic, but I won't mention him by name. Therefore, this doesn't qualify as an attack on his character.

For one who is constantly talking about how the rest of the world attacks him personally, and how wrong it is, this looks pretty hypocritical, Havey. Stop being a prick.

It is unfortunate that you took what I said as being directed towards you, Harvey. I thought I was vague enough to avoid that. Even if you knew I was talking about you, I did NOT mention your freaking name, and you could have let it slide. I only said what I said in making a point of wghy I would not get involved in this thread, as much as I would have liked to. Guess it didn't matter after all, as an arguement with you is always inevitable, for ANYONE. It was you after all who said to ignore you and you would ignore me. But alas, you caught me. Funny how you did get it that I was talking about you. I guess my very brief description was right on the money, and the truth hurt, Mr. Know-It-All.

All the rest of you folks. I apologize. I have said what I needed to say in rebuttle to Harvey's brilliant posts, and all the troll pictures and quotes that Harvey could possibly muster up will not make me post a reply to it, therefore monopolizing this thread with this crap. I am personally sick of it. I have a feeling we will all hear from Harvey though, as he absolutely NEEDS to have the last word, stupid or not.

Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

i agree

--That isn't right, and neither is the abuse in the prisoner of war situations. But why is beheading more vicious then the electric chair, hanging or gassing? The western worlds and cultures are not saints, and our methods are not more humane, only less visible. It's time it all stopped!--I just NEVER hear a word of condemnation from Mrs "Human" (ironic handle!?) for the suffering of her fellow citizens at all.(kinda like the so called "arab street", killing is all good when its American blood)Im tired of it, you say you care but sit silently by and do or say nothing while someone makes light of the sitiaution?Harvey Human is not the kind of "American" i would want in the foxhole with me;would you?I guess you'd actually have to serve your country to find that out though so no luck there with HH.
swankaman

swankaman you wrote
"Hey By the way Harvey, when will the government leaders of those countries whose citizens commit these acts actually step up and persue charges as the US has"
in other words, you are saying... is america not much better than those afwul dictator states in the middle east.
well thats rather obvious

but indirectly what you are saying is... "look, america is better and therefore no one has the right to critize us"
you actually turn around the whole point!
the whole reason why america is better in the first place is because you are free to critisize.
so if americans do things wrong this should be adressed and adressed by americans in the first place.

as soon as people start saying, as you do, we did something bad but don't matter that, because they did something worse, thats it, thats the end, you might as well quit with democracy.

in my opinion the best way to serve your country is to be as critical of your government as you can be and to look for the thruth as hard as you can

Peter Wassink - Digital 2D Animator

Well someone is drawing his own conclusions... Oh well... Flame baiting?

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

"Maybe we should just chop their heads off (film it, post it on the internet for their families and friends to see)as that seems to be the "moral equivelant" or "Just Punishment"to the prison abuse case."

That isn't right, and neither is the abuse in the prisoner of war situations. But why is beheading more vicious then the electric chair, hanging or gassing? The western worlds and cultures are not saints, and our methods are not more humane, only less visible. It's time it all stopped!

I'm against the death penalty, but to compare US capital punishment to cutting somebody's head off because the local theocracy didn't release your prisioners of war has very little in common.

You mentioned the "western world", you do know the US is in the minority in the "western world" as far as capital punishment goes, right? This is not allowed at all in Europe.

Oh, I don't think they hang people anymore in the US. The most brutal form of capital punishment was "sparky" here in Florida, and even that is a long stretch from methodically sawing off somebody's head, filiming it and releasing it on the web.

Please, let's not get carried away with the moral equivalency.

I think rather than posting my own 2000 word essay, I'll just make the following observation: there is a guy on this forum - who shall remain nameless - who whines about me being combative, when it is actually HE who starts the fights by baiting me and making personal attacks. Fighting back is a little futile since he regularly lies and doesn't regard his own awful behavior as shameful.
I've asked him to simply stop responding to me or mentioning (or describing) me, but - no - obviously he loves the conflict.

I think rather than posting my own 2000 word essay, I'll just make the following observation: there is a guy on this forum - who shall remain nameless - who whines about me being combative, when it is actually HE who starts the fights by baiting me and making personal attacks. Fighting back is a little futile since he regularly lies and doesn't regard his own awful behavior as shameful.
I've asked him to simply stop responding to me or mentioning (or describing) me, but - no - obviously he loves the conflict.

Harvey you have convinced me
i've had enough of this kindergarten
i'll waist no more time here

Peter Wassink - Digital 2D Animator

Hey Pwassink. Don't stop coming around here. Yes, this bickering is very annoying (and I am no angel, as I have made my views of undesirable people on here known), but I figure that if these individuals are ignored (possibly even put on the old "ignore list") and noone responds to them, they might get bored and go away. I don't know if that will work, but it may be worth a try.

This forum CAN be a good place to come and talk about animation with others "in your field". Unfortunately, things sometimes get a bit heated on here, because of the impersonal aspect of it, and some people talk a mean game when they don't have to look someone in the face, but it just needs to be ignored. I know I, for one, will be trying my best to do so.

So don't go. I liked your films you have shared with us, and it is good to have the point of view of people actually in this industry.

Cheers.

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Oh my god. After months of my pleading Wade to put me on his ignore list, is he finally agreeing to do so? Well, hallelujah. I don't think I've ever been so happy to be ignored in all my life. Thank you, thank you. Yes, Wade, put me on your ignore list. Quit responding to me. Quit baiting me. Quit flaming me. You have the power to make this forum a pleasant place. :)

Don't hold your breathe Harvey. Just try to avoid the conflict. That's what I do. I sometimes get the feeling if you can't prove that you belong to a studio or have worked on a project similiar to something he has, you will still be considered an outsider. That's not the case with you Harvey, but it is with me. Anyway I always am interested in seeing what you have to say Harvey.

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Phacker, I don't understand. You want peace, and you reply with something like this? I really do not care that you are not in the animation field. I had my disagreements with you in the past, and did bring that up, as you were questioning and telling someone not to listen to my advice about the industry (I believe it was for storyboarding or something). I really do want ot keep things with you on a civil level, and have been trying my best to do so (you have to admit). That takes care of one of the two people that I have my arguements on here with (we have not argued in a hell of a long time, no?).

By the way, Harvey Human is NOT in this industry either. He believes he is, but he is mistaken. To be in the industry, you actually need to have worked in it. But that is neither here nor there, and not why I hate the guy. The real reason I hate him is his know-it-all attitude (such as here Post #7), and constant disagreements with everything everyone says based on nothing (there are just far too many examples of that to list).

SO now Mr. Wadsworth is the only member of my elite ignore list, as there is just no reasoning with him. I am curious about something though... Why did he not put ME on HIS ignore list, if I am such a troll, baiting him ALL THE TIME, and lying about him? Probably because somewhere in his subconscious, he knows it isn't true. I guess if Harvey was to put everyone he fights with on here (and who can now not stand the S.O.B., and I know there are many) on his ignore list, he would just be talking to himself in here, like he does on the animation trivia thread.

Oh well... I am sure he will reply something else whitty in retrospect to this, but I really do not care. I will not see it anyways, so he may as well save his breath.

As for you, Phacker, I would just like to try to maintain the peace, and comments like the one this is in reply to are not the way to do it.

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

"SO now Mr. Wadsworth is the only member of my elite ignore list, as there is just no reasoning with him. I am curious about something though... Why did he not put ME on HIS ignore list, if I am such a troll, baiting him ALL THE TIME, and lying about him? Probably because somewhere in his subconscious, he knows it isn't true. I guess if Harvey was to put everyone he fights with on here (and who can now not stand the S.O.B., and I know there are many) on his ignore list, he would just be talking to himself in here, like he does on the animation trivia thread."

"As for you, Phacker, I would just like to try to maintain the peace, and comments like the one this is in reply to are not the way to do it."

Hey Wade, I read your posts sometimes they are helpful, but many times...who knows. None of us are gods here. Many of the newbies find your stuff really helpful. So more power to you.

If your reply was meant as a threat, that's your problem. I talk with everyone and try to treat each as equals.

Pat

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

I rest my case. Wade is an awful human being, he is a snob, and he is a liar. The truth is that I HAVE worked in the animation industry and I currently AM working in the animation industry. But that is neither here nor there. In order to discuss animation, you aren't required to be working in the industry, as the dumb-ass elitist seems to believe. The opinions of animation workers, animation historians, and animation fans are equally valid.

So now I'm on his ignore list. What do you want to bet that it won't stop him from continually flaming me?

No, Phacker... Not a threat. I was just surprised that you had said that. That is all. Just a point that comments like that are not helpful in keeping a level of peace between us.

Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Actually I'd like to get back on topic:

"But the more that comes out, the more we know something could have been done on 9/11/01. And now the American government is arguing that we can keep detainees secret from the the rest of the world for security reasons...anyone else have a problem with this????? I personnally want to know the details. I want to see the stock portfolios of all those involved in making decisions...am I the only one? Someone is making money and it's not me."

Who is benefiting from all this? Anyone have ideas.

Pat

Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.

Hello guys (this reply is for everyone),

May I suggest two things?

First - not begin a political thread anymore, even, i must admit, if it could be good to know about others point of view. But we all know how it finish every time in this forum, and also that our view on politics will ALWAYS be personal.

Secondly - why do you need to justify yourself to other who are attacking you. After all, you know better than anybody else what you are able to do; So if someone attack you on your abilities, do not answer it if you are sure of what you can do.

Just ask you : how old are you to systematically fight like Children?
I said that! No, it's not true he begin! and tralala...

Please guys, you are adult and good at what you do, so forget the stupid things people can say about you if you feel it's stupid. if you think it's not stupid, well think on it twice, but please, please, don't fight on this forum. Send private message, but let us free of heated debate - even if they could be right.

My two pences...

Yet, have a good day.

Joël :)

Swank, I believe according to the Geneva Conventions, any military combatants, or civilians who take up arms against an invasionary force, are classified as solders. I think this also extends to civilians who help out, such as all our imbedded reporters, and civilian pilots who fly soldiers there. So when I said soldiers, I mean all of those.

The Ape

...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."