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The Dead Animators Society

Cartoon historian Leslie Cabarga interviews famous animators from beyond the grave. What do Winsor McCay, Georges Mi, Max Fleischer, Walt Disney, Pat Sullivan, Otto Messmer, Tex Avery and Lotte Reininger have to say about their lives and the current animation scene? Read on!

Is there life after animation? Is animation dead? Can dead animation be brought back to life? How about dead animators? These are some of the questions I attempted to answer as I took on the ambitious assignment from Animation World Magazine of psychically channeling the spirits of dead animators. In 1971 I began researching my first book, The Fleischer Story (Nostalgia Press, 1976; DaCapo Press, revised edition 1988). By that time, octogenarian Max Fleischer had already suffered a stroke and though still alive, was not capable of being interviewed. I later interviewed the Fleischer brothers Lou, Dave and Joe, but Max died in 1972, and I regretted having missed the chance to talk with him. In 1979 I became intrigued by the idea of spirit channeling and within a few years felt that I had become adept at it. Since then, enough people have come away from my channeled sessions astounded by the insights I'd offered them -- things that I could not have known about their lives -- to even convince a skeptic like me that I had become a true spirit channel. At some point I remembered my wish to have interviewed Max Fleischer. I sat down at my computer, said a small prayer to help me connect with Max's spirit, and I began our interview -- from beyond the grave! Are the following interviews with dead animators real? How can I, or anyone, be sure? All I know is what I hear -- don't shoot the inbetweener (an apt metaphor in this case)! Many years of spirit channeling have familiarized me with the process enough to know when I'm truly in my zone as stenographer to the spirits. Yet I still find myself doubtful at times. Am I really hearing the thoughts of spirits or have I simply a wild imagination? I harbored such doubts throughout my interview with Max. That is, until I stopped for a moment to "command z" (Mac for undo) something and I heard Max say, "I'm enjoying watching you utilize this computer. It is my first chance to get up so close and see with my own `eyes.'" At that point, knowing him to have been a lifelong technology buff and holder of dozens of diverse patents, that I said to myself, `Yeah, this must really be Max Fleischer I'm talking to!' Have I hit the targets as well in the rest of my interviews with "the dead animators' society?" You readers must judge for yourselves, but keep an open mind, and a sense of humor! A note about these spirit interviews: When a soul is no longer enmeshed in physical life and burdened with fleshly concerns, interest in such ephemeral pursuits as cartoons may ebb with the life. My understanding is that in the afterlife one takes up the activity of assessing the past life (as well as the other past lives the entity has had) and coming to terms with one's personality, its defects, its longings and its aspirations for lifetimes to follow. The disembodied spirit of a dead animator may therefore have little interest in checking out each new Disney flick as it is released. I have heard that spirits have access to portals that enable them to check out what's happening in the world they left behind, but I doubt they would spend all their time doing so or it would hamper their onward progress, growth and learning. These, I believe, are the reasons we are born into bodies in the first place and are later reborn into other bodies specifically chosen to facilitate our next needed lessons.

Winsor McCay is the father of animated film in the U.S. Starting as a newspaper illustrator, cartoonist (Little Nemo in Slumberland) and vaudeville performer, his films Little Nemo (1910) and Gertie the Dinosaur (1914) gave birth to an industry. Leslie Carbarga: I've long admired your work! You made it all look so easy. Winsor McCay: It was a different time then. We had more of a work ethic. I loved to draw and work. It was what gave me my sense of who I was. In fact it was an escape; a hide-out for me. I used to escape into my work and hide from my family. This is why my son Robert became an animator; to try to reach me, to just spend time with me. I never could say the things I wanted. I was henpecked, and I'd felt rather frustrated by what you'd call the Victorian life of those days. I was really very sexually repressed too, for if I ever laid eyes on anything the slightest bit risque I'd turn away and become quite flushed. LC: What about your film, The Centaurs? There was nudity there. WM: Yes, this was an attempt to explain the facts of life in my own clumsy way and the artistic aspect of it -- for I was attempting to recreate a Renaissance painting, in my fashion -- was a cover for the nudity. But let's talk about something I want to know. Where are you all headed these days? There is a lack of discipline, no morality, and the jackdaws are everywhere trying to put one over on the other fellow. Really, is this what's become of things? It's just that you must be terribly frightened living in this time of yours. LC: You are a keen observer. Much of what you mention is kept hidden. We are kept "amused" so as not to focus on the bad aspects of our society. That leads me to ask you what you think of modern animation? WM: I have not followed closely developments up to your point in time. I have been studying in quite a few other ways, especially fine arts and sculpture. I have also been involved in a sort of three-dimensional architecture of sorts, more having to do with a plotting of the levels of existence and the realms of possibilities, which reveals all the dovetailing and reciprocating actions taking place at any given moment that you in your world are not so aware of. It is like a video game but not on a screen. It is a mental projection and 3D in form so it actually exists though it is but a "model" of reality, you might say, as we here know it to be. I followed animation in the first years following my death. I was really quite embittered and broken-hearted by that time and felt myself alternately impressed and excited by developments, yet regretful that I had not lived to become more widely appreciated. I also longed to be able to take part again in the creation of animated cartoons as I saw the young Walt Disney bringing the art form to new heights. I was quite jealous of him, actually, because he got to use color, where my productions were more limited. LC: Why didn't you continue to follow along with the progress of animation past the early Thirties? WM: I have moved on to other interests and endeavors. There really is more to life than animation as I think you yourself are well aware. Up here we watch the pageantry of life unfold before us in all its miraculous events. You might say it is like watching animation -- only it's the real thing. But here we are not bound by an idea of reality; we may alter our worlds to suit ourselves. You will one day know this. LC: I really loved your imagination in Little Nemo. WM: Yes, this was my most successful venture and brought me the greatest acclaim from my peers. It did become an effort, however, to continue the narrative and continually think of new ideas [laughs]. That's the only part I didn't like. The flights of fantasy, the stretching and squashing were attempts at circumventing narrative and substituting instead just wonderful pictures. I think it worked. LC: What was your greatest wish then, and now? WM: My greatest wish at that time would have been for more acclaim. I was a hog for it, although I couldn't accept it, really. I was stuck in a dismal marriage that I thought was just the way things were, and saw no "out." I had wished, finally to create an animation studio as I'd seen the other fellows doing, but frankly had insufficient resources to pull it all together at the time. I was not a very happy soul. It took sometime for me to become aware of the full meaning of my journey here, to the "other side" of life, where you find me now. I was, in a manner of speaking, pulled kicking and screaming into it, for I had so many regrets and a mind that was very confused from the effects of drink. It took many years [over here] for me to see things in proper perspective and then I realized that my diligence had been a virtue. And that I led a life of moral servitude and an honorable and decent life that gained me respect for the fortitude it showed in me. I was not one to run around, but instead my art was my mistress and the one I ran to in times of emotional need, for there was not other in my life to give me this. I am thankful you have come to ask me these questions and only hope we may meet again on the other side where you will understand more fully my meaning. Farewell!

In 1898 when Georges Méliès animated the letters of the alphabet for an advertising film, he was perhaps the first person to make an object move on film utilizing animation. A magician by trade, the prolific Méliès approached filmmaking as an opportunity to present the fantastic which he did in such films as A Trip to the Moon (1902). Georges Méliès: I don't have anything to say to you about your state of the animation art today. I was a filmmaker and that's all. I didn't stop to ask, "What is this thing I'm doing -- is it animation, or is it art?" I was telling a story using a new medium and we didn't have as many tricks back then, only ingenuity. We had to be very careful in our work not to establish any false fronts, or anything that the audience wouldn't recognize, for remember that in those days you had a very naive audience for whom all of this cinema was as new to them as to we filmmakers. We went along like kids, without any plans except the rough concept, and then we made films. Today, I am very proud to find that I have become an icon in the world of cinema for my "play," for I was having as much fun as anyone ever had. It was a very exciting time, only for the bit of frustration in not being able to achieve all of our goals, but I imagine this is the same now, to some extent. What we said was, "With this new, miraculous medium, what can we portray that will be as exciting as the medium itself?" and "How can we stretch the imagination to behold the things that man has always held in the imagination as desirable yet virtually impossible?" If you insist upon asking what I think of the current cinema, I have to say that I am unaware, except in a general capacity, of any specific films as I do not watch them. I am more concerned with the emotions and the plays -- the human dramas -- that unfold for live people in their daily lives. If you ask what sort of activities I am engaged in, there is a broad spectrum of activities, ranging from watching over the global conflicts with great interest and some trepidation, and in working with those individuals who need my assistance. I do not teach film history or acting classes, and I am not interested in cartoon animation. I am interested in helping people to realize the entanglements through egoic gratification that ensnare them causing negative results, that I may help them to understand these things. I was a very negative person in my life, a rather imperious man who really felt I was the king of the heap, and from there I have had to question these assumptions and "come down to earth," if you will, even from my stand on high.

From creating the Out of the Inkwell series in 1919,featuring Koko the clown, to founding the Fleischer Studio with his brothers, Max Fleischer was a leader in animation inventing the rotoscope, fiddling with sound and other technical innovations, as well as introducing the world to the likes of Betty Boop and Popeye the Sailor Man.

Max Fleischer: I want to thank you, Leslie for writing my biography. My son may not be happy with it because he doesn'tshare my expanded world view, my ability to forgive and forget, and all that I've learned here since I arrived. I no longer am capable of holding grudges, for I understand the world to be much broader than even I gave it credit for previously. I no longer hold to a finite perception of absolutes. I see many variables, many optionsand opinions. I am grateful that you told our story in your book and that it helped inspire a new generation of appreciation. Also, you must know that all of your Betty Boop work has been appreciatedas it has brought money into the Fleischer coffers.

LC: Whatwas your greatest achievement?

MF: As I look back I see more areas in which I did not achieve what I'd hoped to. For I was a visionary and had far more things going on in my head than ever came out on paper or in model. Yetwhenever the going got rough I would close my outer doors and seek refuge in my head, ignoring everybody and everything else. So inthat sense you could say -- and have said -- that I was not as effective a leader as I could have been. I had a disposition that was mostlyunable to cope with stress or disagreements. When there was disharmony I tried to shut it out as quickly as possible. Thus I was "notat my post" in many cases when I should have been. You might say it was an experiment of sorts placing me, with my "fool's vision," into an office setting. And so, though I complained about it, I was most satisfied to have my brother, Dave, and my other brothers as well in key positions on my staff for I trusted them, and knew that by keeping it all in the family my positionwas secure. They were my buffers against taking the heat, since so much of the management of the establishment was placed upon their shoulders, taking it off mine. But even though I longed to create a harmonious environment we had conflicting egos my brothers and I, and my wife. We all wanted something slightly different. When my wife would start harping on why wasn't I doing like Disney I could hardly wait to finish dinner and get up from my seat to leave the room. For you see, I too wanted to be competitive, but I wasunder the thumb of Paramount and their patronizing attitude keptme in a sort of a ghetto. My power was limited, and ultimately if I wanted to do something it came down to their agreeing or not. I was more of an entrepreneur and should not have been tied to othersfor security. I traded my soul for that security of the rich uncleParamount. Then my other problem was in my distaste for conflictI was not able to push forth my ideas regarding control of the studio (I'm enjoying watching you utilize this computer, it is my first chance to get up so close and see with my own "eyes"). So I ended up a figurehead, and I sought to compensate myself inthe power that my name on every screen cartoon held. That is whyI grabbed at this and appeared egotistical which annoyed my brothers so much through the years. It was just my way of keeping control over something I felt very much out of control with.

LC: But all the animators loved you and praised your work. MF: Yes, but I never felt like their leader. I felt more like one of the bullpen, one of the kids hanging out at the art department. Inside I felt that but never let it show. So when I was demonstrating animation techniques to these men, it was only stuff that I had learned from having spent longer years in the business. Most of those guys could do things I never could have in one million years -- although I'm getting my chance now in this timeless experience! Sure they loved me for I was self-effacing and lovable. But it pains me to remember that I was unable to maintain control. I had people telling me what to do, you know. It's not like nobody ever advised me to do this or that, to increase my publicity campaigns and so forth. But the more I was harped upon, the more I receded from the intensity level of their voices and the less got done. I also felt,as you did, that it was unfair to have placed Miss Kane in that position. We all knew she was correct that we had stolen her Boop!But I became enflamed in the Paramount publicity machine and the aggravation over the suit. We were naive about matters such as "rights"in those days and felt we were honoring Miss Kane with our take-off. But I knew in my heart that we had done her a disservice. LC: How are your brothers doing? How do you all get alongnow? MF: They are all fine, and they want to say hello to you! Especially Lou, he loved you and the attention you provided him before his crossing over. Yes, yes, we have all sat down to some good pow-wows over our past disagreements and have come to somegood understandings. They forgive me and I them. There are no more hard feelings. Each of us had certain lessons to learn for whichthe studio provided a classroom. Then almost independently, we all learned the lessons we needed to. We were all very close you understand, a very tight family with much love between us. This is why the tensions mounted as they did because we all, especially myself and Dave, wished to go our own ways to become independent of one another,and yet we were stuck together by a family bond. The closeness then became suffocating. LC: What plans have you now?MF: I am planning to be an observer of life for awhile. Iwant to watch scientific developments. When I become suitably accustomedto life on this side I'll be let in to the scientific discussions and workshops here which I am very excited about. Dave wants to return to earth life soon. He wants to go on the stage and becomea physical comedian like Jim Carrey. He thinks he will take it to new levels and I feel he will. Only they're having trouble explaining to him that the future holds new avenues of expression in these directions and there may no longer be similar vehicles for slapstick comedians as there once were. They want him, instead, to settledown, to attend [spirit] classes and think about entering politics in your future, to become sort of a renegade politician and use the pulpit to espouse new ideas in an entertaining way. They thinkhe can reach many folks who otherwise would be hoodwinked by yourcurrent brand of dour, angry politician. As a matter of fact, Daveand I may come back together again. We have much to work out and feel we can be successful partners this time, without the antagonism.We may come back as a husband and wife team like your Bill and Hillary, only funnier! That's a joke.

LC: Were you frustrated about your cartoons when you were making them?

MF: Yes and no. I was frustrated about my lack of participation -- that's why when someone came up with a good idea that made me look good I was quick to try to claim it as mine. But I knew my tail was covered because Dave and the boys were doing good work. I usually tried to stay out of the way because of my insecurity. It happened early on. I knew I was limited in my drawing skills, and in my animating skills. Also, I had a rather prosaic, old fashionedsense of humor. It was too sweet to be really funny. Dave went the other way toward the ribald. We were quite opposite. So I kept myselfquite busy inventing things. It was one thing to invent something and another to market it. I was more interested in new things all the time, and so I did not pay adequate attention to the cartoons. On the other hand, my brother was also myopic but in a different way. He [Dave] focused in so tightly on the cartoons themselves, on every bit of business, that he lacked a larger view of the quality. He also had no interest in running the studio. So really the shipwas out of control much of the time, or rather the rats were incharge of the ship. You reminded me, I spoke of this in my autobiography, Noah's Shoes. You were correct in your assessment of my placing autobiographical details in that story. How could I have avoided it? I was in something of a state of shock when the studio was taken over and there I was on the street. It was very humiliating and defeating, and yet Paramount did it because of my very inabilityto take control. I was receding into my interior dimension -- mymind -- far too often and was out of touch.

LC: How would you assess the Fleischer cartoons now? MF: Oh they were unique alright! We made some very good cartoons. I am very proud of that body of work. Do they stand up to Walt's stuff? I can't tell you. Let's say it was apples and oranges to a certain degree. But I did begin to look at what he was doing and question myself. His stuff made me lose heart. I couldn't standconflict and I certainly couldn't stand such competition. I also had a lot of anger within for the way so many of my best men had defected to Walt's studio. We made out alright though and I am glad when people still appreciate my work.

Seeing the cartoons come to life and watching peoples' reactions made me happy in those days. Also the process of inventing something, in dealing with the myriad of problems; technical problems to workout. This was when I was in my element. I wish to return to earth in another life someday and bring my inner self, my imagination more out in the open. I'll do it at a time when folks are more open to new ideas, and when communications mediums have advanced even further than they have now. Then I will be able to share my inventive personality and all my ideas on the outside without having to seek refuge in my own mind. I'll be looking out for you too and hoping we will meet then. Good day!

Does this visionary man really need an introduction? Beginning in Kansas City in 1922 with Laugh-O-Gram Films, Disney, of course, later moved to Hollywood and founded the most successful animation studio of all time. Walt Disney: Many have tried to contact me on this side, although many are not yet convinced that I am over here! I am impressed with what my organization has become and also a little startled by it. We were always "corporate-minded." We always had the greater goals of the corporation, of the dynasty or "the dream," foremost in our minds when it came to decisions regarding employees and business practices, and these considerations often made us appear to be cold or unfeeling toward the employees. It was just that we had an organization to feed, to perpetuate, and it just seemed larger at that point than any mere complications arising from disgruntled employees. [Roy is also present during the interview.] I want to point out that we had as our goal, always, to have created the finest artistry and highest accomplishments that we could. Here too, inferior work and inferior men were not tolerated. When it comes to discussions of what the organization has become, I can only say that had I not passed away, I would not have disagreed too fundamentally with present management in most areas of decision-making. Of course, I would have avoided the descent into mediocracy and films of lower moral character that have in recent years emerged from the place, but I was tired. I'd driven myself to exhaustion and back countless times and by the time of my passing was in no shape to make adequate judgments over anything, to say the least, how our pictures were being produced. I tell you, if I could come back today I would experiment more, not take the easy road: we would not be rehashing our finest efforts of the past in formulaic rituals, but exploring even newer mediums just as we had broken ground so many times in the past.

Things at the studio have become too focused around money. I never cared for money except that we needed it to live out our dreams and to keep things hopping. We never did make much of a profit but kept pouring it back into projects, so had there been the kind of enormous wealth we are seeing associated with Walt Disney Enterprises at this time, we likely would have spent it in more experimentation, perhaps creating more wildly fantastic interactive amusements of the sort we'd begun in the parks. LC: What are you doing now? WD: I'm not quite sure to be truthful. We just spend each day in wonderment, amazed at all that's gone on since our days on earth. We watch the passing parade of events with great interest and are also "out of time" so to speak as our available focus includes times past and future. We think there will be a return to gentler conditions of employment, more sharing of equity and a greater degree of cooperation between management and employees, more trust, more allowing of ideas to be shared and less of a hierarchy. LC: How do you feel about the films you created? WD: I am very proud of my legacy and to have been the first to do all the things we did. It is an impressive body of work and of course we strove to hire the most impressive group of artists we could find. These were men of great brilliance. LC: What do you think of the animation of today? WD: I don't think there is the same love of the art in all cases as we had. It's different when you have the sort of pioneering spirit we had from today, where money is the name of the game. I know how you feel about the state of the media conglomerates, the centralizing of focus and the pressure to create profitability which often destroys artistic initiative. But we can tell you that times are going to be changing for the better in this regard and in fact, a return to the pioneering days is coming as more individuals are creating on a small scale without being held back by committee-like corporations, or by profitability considerations.

Australian Pat Sullivan was a newspaper cartoonist in New York when he began to create animated films based on those characters.Later his Pat Sullivan Studio produced and marketed the wildly popular Felix the Cat series, which shone until the coming of sound.Later years revealed, however, that Sullivan was little more than a figurehead when it came to actually producing the cartoons. Pat Sullivan: I was racked by feelings of inadequacy, forI saw the things the other men [animators] were capable of that I felt I was not. In fact, had I buckled down I might have produced work of some value myself for I was infused, and enthused, with the creative spirit at the onset of my life. It had to do with my father, a very belittling man who never thought I'd amount to much. He didn't enjoy my cartoon drawings and took all the fun out of it for me. I therefore couldn't wait to escape from the drawingand creating part of cartoon art for I felt guilt and shame even as I endeavored to pursue it. Remember, these were heady times [the roaring Twenties] and there was much excitement, much revelry, drinking, traveling and thrills, always. Boy, didn't we have fun, but I always thought I was influencing the business and fancied that I'd beeninstrumental in the process of creating the cartoons because wheneverI'd head into the Pat Sullivan Studio I'd make some little comment or make them change things around. So I thought I was making improvements and what would they have done without me, after all? I was the boss. Otto [Messmer] was my right hand man, who really kept the businessrunning and I was very thankful for him though quite envious ofhis abilities for he really WAS Felix the Cat: it was Otto's personalitythat spilled out onto the screen. He was a man who couldn't say much but whose ingenuity came forth on paper. I was a man with little ingenuity and only a half-developed drawing style for I hated myself whenever I used it.

LC: What do you think of the animation industry today? PS: I can't get over what's become of this world, not to mention animated cartoons. I think the technology is amazing. We never used computers to draw, or to think for us! There are so many things I'd like to say about the world now. I want to be clear that mine is only one opinion but there is so much stress and worry out there. Don't follow another's voice instead of your own; do what YOU want to do and that's the way to happiness. And another thing, too many people are confused about what it is they should be doing. You need to look squarely at yourself and make out what it is you'refit for and do that. The thing is a personal goal where each man does the best HE can do, not worrying about what others are doing, because we're all on different tracks toward the same goal of oneness or unity.

LC: You're surprising me, Pat. You've become spiritual.

PS: Not that I wasn't then either. I went to church always,at least in the beginning. But now I'm speaking of a broader issue,that of personal happiness, and I just feel all of you need to embrace this first before anything else.

Otto Messmer was discovered by Pat Sullivan and worked with him until Sullivan's death in 1933. Messmer created Felix the Cat, and in the beginning produced the series almost singlehandedly -- writing, directing and even animating. It wasn't until the late 1960s, however, that Messmer received the credit he deserved for his artisitic contributions to the studio and his pioneering work on the imaginative Felix cartoons.

LC: Hi Otto, remember me? Otto Messmer: Oh, Leslie, I am recalling our meetings now and that you were very complimentary of me. I thank you for it. I wanted to become more widely known and yet held a terror ofthat possibility. You know, we don't always know what it is that's best for us, but we feel our way around using the best stuff wehave in us. Pat is right that I always spread myself out on the drawing paper and hoped someone would recognize me there. I gotlots of acclaim, mainly from my peers who knew I was the guiding hand behind Felix, but even then I'd downplay my accomplishments. LC: Sounds as though everyone in this animation businesswas just a mass of neuroses.

OM: Well, that's what it is, I tell you. We were the ones with something to say. If you have nothing to say, you just sitthere. You don't make cartoons, and who has the most to say? Thosewho are trying to tell their stories in order to get them out to all who will listen; to try to comprehend what is going on. I was a product of my times. We would mostly toe the line. You didn'thave muckrakers in those days, just people trying to go from day to day and get along.

LC: How must you have felt with Pat Sullivan hogging all the glory and money from the success of your creation?

OM: I felt a little like the creators of today feel. When you put your all into something -- like those Renaissance painters putting their all into paintings for the churches that were their only sponsors -- but knowing that the work isn't really yours; you never actually own it, but you couldn't afford to do it on your own, without them. So you go home at night feeling a little empty.

LC: Highpoints of your life? OM: My family, my kids. I loved my wife and we are here together, or were for a blessed time. LC: And what do you think of today's animation? OM: I admire a great deal of it. I think I'd have liked to learn to draw, really draw in a more realistic fashion as is beingdone nowadays, for my style was really a shorthand way of just telling my stories. As to regrets, I have none at this time although I amlooking forward to moving ahead now, getting ready to design the next incarnation. I want to be really loved next time and to work with greater self-esteem, be more outgoing and gain more attentionfor my talents.

LC: What, from a spiritual standpoint, will attention from others gain you? OM: It's more that I carried with me into the afterlife this longing, for I was always working behind the scenes in the past, and so it is just something I need to work with; to feel what acclaim means, but to start out with a firmly loving basis from which toallow my talents to blossom.

While he began working with Walter Lanz and ended his career at MGM, everyone knows Tex Avery best as the leader of "Termite Terrace" that crazy little Warner Bros. group that pushed the limits and transformed animation forever. Tex Avery: The guys egged me on to do what we did. It started to become a game: how far could we go? It was really nothing all that special. There was this crazy attitude at the studios and you just wanted to go with these ideas and see how far you could take them, that's all. We don't feel there was that much to them now, though we are happy we made people laugh, and I feel a slight nostalgia for these days of life that you remind me of. What a difference now and then! What a strange thing it is to recall the feeling of being in a body then and doing the things we did. It almost feels like a dream as you ask me to remember the feelings I had then. LC: How can I be sure I'm truly speaking with Tex Avery? There are about a million Frenchmen who'd kill for this opportunity, you know. TA: You'll have to accept this reality as more outrageous than any in the cartoons we created, but it was somewhat god-like I have to admit, to be able to create worlds of your own, to animate, literally, life, into being. What fun! I'd do it again if I could. I don't have regrets. Oh, then I was a bit hardboiled. Too ready with my opinions that you'd call rather right wing, and I poured everything into my work and then the silly bowling and after-hours games we'd indulge in: drinking in bars and so forth. You might say that we spent ourselves at work, and there was little else to get excited about. I remember feeling transported out of the world when I really got down to focusing on my drawings. It was something sort of like stopped time and I was almost risen out of my seat and the drawings became real as you flipped from one sheet to another and sort of lived the life in the drawings in front of you; lived the action. I am in a nice place and I feel good about things and I can tell everyone not to worry about anything. There's a good plan happening [laughs]. They've storyboarded everything and it's got a funny ending!

Lotte Reiniger began making her usual silhouette films in Germanyin 1919. She created many independent films, including Europe's first animated feature with Die Geschichte des Prinzen Achmed (The Adventures of Prince Achmed) in 1926. She worked inGermany, Italy, Great Britain, and later at the National Film Board of Canada.

Lotte Reiniger: Who disturbs me? I'm happy to talk aboutmy work though it was so long ago. I had around me a small group of students or devotees that helped me in my work although it waslate in the night, by myself, when most of my inspiration happened.I liked to work alone and bring my fantasies to life, and I'm glad I worked within a time when this was made possible for me. I have not achieved anything of too great importance, only in making a pleasurable pastime and doing things that have brought the interest of others. It was a sort of magic I was after though I did not feellike a magician. I felt more like a storyteller, and I attempted to give emotion to my characters. I was more of a masculine spirit in those days and I tried to live through my creations the things I could not live out in my real life. I succeeded to a great extent, but I became too critical of the [German] government and unhappybeing within such a structure that felt so little for the valueof human life. With my bitterness, my creativity seemed to dry up too, and I found myself creating less and being less able to sell my productions. I basically lost heart in it all but continued to create little shadow plays for myself into old age. I went a littlebit insane you might say or just became senile. It was not a happylife except those bright spots in creating my masterpieces whenI felt totally one with the process. I cannot tell you what I think about today's animation for I am not of this world. I am returning soon as a girl child and willbe given everything in life; all the riches, my needs met by two very understanding, doting parents who will be good to me. And this loving comfort is what I need now, to see what becomes of my creative urge in such an environment where my impetus shall not be inwardly motivated, but more outwardly so. I have been very happy to meetyou but cannot continue to speak, goodbye. Leslie Cabarga is the author of over two dozen books including The Fleischer Story, Dynamic Black and White Illustration, DesignersGuide To Color Combinations, and Talks with Trees (a plant psychic's conversations with vegetables, flowers and trees). Youcan learn about all of Leslie's work, including his type fonts, clip art, illustrations, Betty Boop merchandise, and many bookson his web site.

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