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So you want to be an Animator? Here's what to expect.

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I think it's actually really motivating to see how -much- leniency exists, given how much arse-clenching goes on in other similar industries. There's as much a compromise as is possible given the business-driven desires at stake. You'll see that when you go to school. They should have your best interests at heart, but they do until it encroaches upon their ability to make money. The actual industry, if anything, is an improvement because at least it's got a humanistic core, even if the surface wrapper is "staying afloat and procuring a profit."

Doesn't phase me though. It can be an inconvenience but it could be far worse...it could be way less supportive. Just do the best you can given the existing structure...work within the paradigm.

I'm doing that come summer. As for money, I'm still churning out rough work and illustrating for small cash. Really small cash. I'd like to think I could garner something from a few contests, entering for multiple prizes. The money issue is rather daunting, but spending the next four decades of your life might as well be something you like, true. "Echo"

im sorry if i offended you in anyway, i am an outsider and probably never get to your level or even in a real animation studio making cartoons

it is sad to know that its committee run, ive already read about this and know but its still sad to see that everything in america is the same

i just hope i dont sound like im coming off as a jerk, cause im far from it! :eek:

Nope, no offense taken. This thread is all about learning and that's been the aim here. You asked your questions and you got some answers. And I do not speak for all pros, so if others like Ape want to chime in, by all means!

As far as creation by commitee goes, that's oversight for ya.
Its a natural outfall of handing over budgets with 10's of millions of dollars to people. There's more trust placed in a group consensus on creative matters, than on individual visions when that kind of money is involved. After all, that money belongs to someone....

im lucky im still young and have no family to take care of, or house payments, im a renter and probably will always be. I also make money from hosting so i can live anywhere and have income so i can animate as a hobby i hopefully after i save alot will try to goto www.vanarts.com to learn more, they put you in a deadline situation and get you ready for the tough animating times ahead

Your frame of reference is clearly different from mine, even if you were in the industry is could still be different. The key thing here is to keep in mind that the reality of the business can be quite sobering--but that depends upon so many things. Your atttitudes about life, circumstances, life references......so many things.

ken what cartoons have you worked on? if you can say?

Here's a smattering:
James Bond Jr, Ren & Stimpy, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Freakazoid, Johnny Bravo, Baby Huey, 101 Dalmatians, Mummies Alive, Action Man, Reboot, Class of the Titans, Conan, Pink Panther, Batman, Wing Commander Academy, I am Weasel, Bionicle, and currently Chaotic. There's about another 2 dozen or so shows in addition to those.

its great to come here to talk to the real pros who are in the biz, but its also sad to find out the truth in the animation world

Well the aim is not to make you sad, its to make you wise. Wise so you can enjoy working in the animation business in spite of the pitfalls. In fact, that is the whole point of this now-extensive thread.

At no point have I said to you, or anyone," do not do this"--because that's not my style, and I just do not believe in dissuasion. I push reality, or what I believe to be reality within the business--because if you can handle the downside of something, the upside is obviously not going to be a problem, right?

My advice if you are unsure about this industry is to read more about it.
Read everything about the animation biz you can get your hands on--there's no such thing as too much info in this case. In my day, it was reading every book and magazine I could get, but today you have easily 1000 times more info--all of it right in front of you. There's a much richer education to be had out there right now, even without going to school --which used to be the only choice, aside from learning by trial and error.
You'll start to see patterns emerge with the more info you digest. That'll be part of your education. The other part will come actually doing it, and doing it professionally.
Give it a try.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Thank you for hearing me out and giving me this advice..!
It's very relieving to know that its normal to be unsatisfied with our work because I always feel like I'm surrounded with people who are confident in what they are doing :|
Or don't show that they can be insecure over their art as well.
Every time I voice something similar to my question post, they give me all sorts of suggestions on trying to fix my work OR they just do the "Your art is fine, stop whining."
Neither is helping really.

Ahah yeah, it's really awkward when I have to submit a really sloppy work for something... And not being able to look at the person in the eye, etc...

Okay I'll start asking more questions when I see a piece I like, sounds like a more productive way to look at things than just raving about it than feeling awful not being able to be up that level (O v O ; )

EDIT:
Recently, I was given the advice to send out portfolios before I graduate so I have the chance on fixing it and not panicking about jobs after college.
I've been looking around and googling but nothing really relevant has popped up yet. (Still searching!)
In any case, may I have some advice on what to put in a portfolio for 2D animation?
What are the mistakes people usually do when creating a portfolio? Or the unnecessary additions they did?
Thank you again.

Recently, I was given the advice to send out portfolios before I graduate so I have the chance on fixing it and not panicking about jobs after college.
I've been looking around and googling but nothing really relevant has popped up yet. (Still searching!)
In any case, may I have some advice on what to put in a portfolio for 2D animation?
What are the mistakes people usually do when creating a portfolio? Or the unnecessary additions they did?

The typical mistakes that newcomers make with portfolios are not having one to begin with, and having one that is "one-size-fits-all" in scope.
The latter may have worked years ago, but positions in studios now tend to be more specialized in scope, so a specialized portfolio is needed for different jobs.
A 2d animators portfolio should have some good gestural drawings in it--life drawings, character, animal..what-have-you. They don't need to be tight finished drawings, nor should more than a few be very quick doodles......they should be loose sketchy drawings showing form, structure, grace, appeal etc. Include a couple of "tight" finished drawings to show how you manage a clean-up line. Weight the samples in favour of the gesture drawings, keep still-life subjects to a minimum, likewise with location shots.... You can throw in a couple of the best key frame drawings, if you've worked on paper......and the actual meat of your samples should be on the demo reel.

I've written recently here on what a demo reel should have, and I'll repeat it here for you, albeit pared down a bit.
Keep the demo reel short, because the recruiters/directors will be able to determine if you can do the work inside of about 5-10 seconds. Therefore, keep the reel to about 20-30 seconds long.

Just include about 3-4 scenes/shots of some animated action, each being no more than 10 seconds long. They can be excerpts from other animation you have done. Make sure they focus on the kind of animation needed for the position you are applying for; example character animation should show personality and intent with the character.

Now, the following are some of my personal preferences and peeves with reels:
Don't include your whole student film--just show an excerpt. Most student films are boring as hell.....and you don't need to show the title/end-title credits etc.
Boredom is death in a job reel.
Add a link to an on-line posting of your film, say on You-tube, where the reviewer can see it in its entirety.

I hate walk cycles. I hate flag waves. I hate head rotations. I loathe the bouncy ball.
I hate them because they are boring and almost everyone does them the same--as straight mechanical animation. Big deal. There's no imagination there, just straight mechanical "mathematical" process.
They waste time in a reel because they are redundant.
If you can properly animate a character ACTING in a scene, then you can animate all those other things, right?

If you absolutely MUST put in a cycle, plan it right from the start.......have the walk oozing emotion and character. Need a head rotation? Sure, spin the head, but each time the face comes around to face camera, have it making a face AT the camera......make it funny.

The absolute worst reel I've ever seen was something posted on Youtube. It was some CGI machine, like from the famous Mousetrap game, that had a simple mechanical action--levers going up and down, a ball rolling on a track, pistons moving. The camera was slowly rotating around this, with the odd dissolve to a close view of the actions.
The problem was two-fold.......the actions did not vary. At all.

And the film was 16 minutes long.

So it was 16 minutes of the same monotonous actions happening over and over and over and over again............for 16 minutes. Ugh.
16 minutes, of which you'd never get back again.
The entire film should have been no more than 30 seconds long....it would accomplish the same thing.

The reel is supposed to show your range, and your talent. Doing the same animation exercises as everyone else says nothing about YOU and what you can really do.
Keep your scenes simple, but have a point to them. Two characters dancing, and one twirls the other, and then they smile and step towards camera.
A little kid eating ice cream drops his cone and a friendly animal ( dog or ........oh hey, a pot-bellied pig) comes up and licks the kid in the face.
Or a dramatic square off of Batman facing a couple of ninjas, each stepping in and out of shadows.
It doesn't have to be a complete story, its just some vignettes....small moments.
No-one looking at your reel will have time to view a whole story, and VERY few people produce work so captivating that a viewer will willingly sit through a whole 'story".
Be prepared to do some animation after the fact, to add to the reel--that is after you leave school.
You might want to be a 2D animator, but positions make open at a gaming studio for animators needed for a soccer video game. So to address sports game jobs......do some animation of a soccer player kicking a ball towards a goal--making it dramatic and interesting in the same breath.

Forget about that driving musical beat that you just loooove--it means nothing. The only sound you really need is any dialogue matched to lip-synch--and make sure it works perfectly. Any other sound will be a distraction. You could add some light music to your reel title card--say 5-7 seconds long, but anything else doesn't really matter.

So, to that end, have a DIFFERENT portfolio for each job category you are applying for. A demo reel of animation means nothing when applying for storyboards. A background artist position needs location pieces, not character sketches.

Life-drawing samples say that you can draw. Don't drown the portfolio in them. Want to be a character designer? Include some designs, but some really good solid identifiable caricatures, in different styles will help too. Show range, show different styles, BUT ONLY IF YOU ARE COMPETENT IN THEM.

Think appealing, think commercial.......it might be better to ape a style off of comics-great Jack Kirby rather than some obscure chic Italian illustrator that no-one has ever heard of.
Unless their style really is cool, that is.

Include a paper portfolio AND a disc copy of your portfolio/reel. If you are replying remotely, have the samples available on-line....on a dedicated web-page for easy viewing at any time.
Make sure the portfolio and reel have your name and contact info clearly labelled on them, and its okay to an a tiny print version of the contact info to each page, in case they get torn away.

Now, here's the obvious......create a portfolio only if you have something to offer.
If you have a couple of good pieces and some half-hearted crap.....take the time to create some good pieces. Half-hearted crap will sink you. Don't put in stuff just to put in stuff. Less is probably more, but having next to nothing means you need to work harder at it.
Make sure your stuff is as good as their stuff, and if you cannot determine where your stuff stands, then learn how before you proceed. The studios are going to hire you to work on THEIR projects, not yours--so you need to establish you can work at their level. There's no guess-work in this......you either can, or you cannot.

I've screened portfolios where the applicant showed paintings of vases, and they were applying for a storyboard gig.
Uh-uh....it doesn't work. I don't care if the applicant shows other established characters, but its tricky to determine if they have just copied others work. To that end if they extrapolate things somewhat.....and build off the established stuff, then I can see how they think. The Bruce Timm Batman style, but with the 60's Adam West Batman, for example. Be imaginative and even clever.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

This Is A Must See

"On The Lot" is a must see summer show. Watch as twenty-something year old film makers get their beating heart ripped out on national television.

C'mon Wontobe - at least these people are getting some exposure. I doubt anyone held a gun to their head and made them apply for the show, and by now if anyone should know how a reality show elimination works, it should be someone who wants to tell stories for a living.

Frankly, I think they're being treated far better than some reality shows treat their contestants.

What will really counts is artistic ability, because without it, you are useless to the indistry. If you cannot create an appealing
Again, having a certificate that says you've learned some software and taken some course means nothing if you do not have artistic ability to back those up. Take your time and learn the skills properly, and develop your talents to the best it can be.

Well Before high school, I used to aspire to become an industrial designer, Design new and upcoming automobiles and stuff. It wasn't until this year that I found animation. I fell in love with computer animated films and animation in general. In my town, there's not a whole lot of opportunity. with only 550 people (population probably rounded up), best you can do is try and get a scholarship of some kind. with job opportunities comes art. There wasn't really an art program at my school. And since my parents didn't draw or paint I taught myself. I don't know how much of potential I have, but I drew this during Social Studies class while we were watching something on the French and Indian war. This is the only one I could pull up right now because I'm on vacation in MO. But please tell me what to work on. I had my first art class this year and So I'm probably not as great as I could be but I'm trying. I want to be the best I can possibly be you know?

"You can never be a real winner if you've never been a loser" -DPoV

Is that referenced from something, like a photograph? The construction's pretty deliberate in places, and the reflections would be amazingly organic for something off the top of your head.

I'm gonna reveal something scary...........like WEALLY SCAWY scary.

I used to joke to my classes about those of us in the biz that had, at one time in our childhoods, sustained some kind of head injury. Y'know....anything from an actual head trauma to just wacking your skull on something and having blood drawn.

I used to joke about this, and asked how many had sustained such a thing.........until I started noticing that the students that said "no" or were confused by the question were the ones that didn't make it in the biz.

Hit in the head with a hoe.

“Who cares what a bunch of fourth graders think you’re doing what you want to do with your life and that’s the only thing that matters…” -Homer Simpson. True words from a true roll model.

I would love to do an internship although I need to make enough money to get myself from hear in a suburb of Chicago to within driving range of a animation studio willing to give me a chance.

3D animation is essentially puppetry, once the virtual object is built, a chimpanzee can pretty much move the thing.

Sure, just like a chimp can make marks with a pencil. And like making marks with a pencil, it takes someone who knows what they're doing in 3D to go from that basic level to creating a compelling performance and a believable character. Just like in 2D.

I completely agree about the benefit of a broad artistic background; hell, I've built my career on it. The key to a long, successful career is having a range of skills, both traditional and digital.

Also agree about the software. The only time you need to be an expert is if you're going for a TD job. Beyond that, learn what you need to know to do what you're trying to do, and add to the knowledge base as necessary.

Is that referenced from something, like a photograph? The construction's pretty deliberate in places, and the reflections would be amazingly organic for something off the top of your head.

yes, I drew that from a photo. I'm creative but I don't have a photographic memory. And I don't always draw from photo's. I do still life drawings as well. But I drew that in 8th grade so the front rim looks bent. and some of the things on it are bad. But That was a while ago before I took an art class.

The only time you need to be an expert is if you're going for a TD job. Beyond that, learn what you need to know to do what you're trying to do, and add to the knowledge base as necessary.

Do you know exactly where I can find the information you're talking about? And what exactly is a TD job. I'd just like to know.

"You can never be a real winner if you've never been a loser" -DPoV

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for. What I meant was, learn the basics of whatever software you're interested in, then add the skills you need to accomplish the task you've set for yourself. For example, if you wanted to be a modeler, you'd need to familiarize yourself with the modeling tools in whatever package you're using.

A TD is a technical director. That's the general job title for the folks that set up characters and such for the animators to animate, or those who write shaders, or those who set up lighting in a scene, etc. A TD usually needs to be more expert in the software package than the average animator does.

thanks! and wow thats alot of credits you got there

also i hope james bond jr. comes to dvd ive been waiting for that

im sure you met some of the greats?? i mean if you worked on pink panther and ren and stimpy you probably met people like John K etc etc

any books you really recommend? right now im doing lessons in Hart's Animation Studio and Preston Blairs Animation I

What are the important key programs to know in order to keep up with the 2D or 3D animation industry?

Hi everyone.
Well; the most important thing that I had listen here (AWN forums); is that you have to do another stuff and not just animation; dont put all the eggs in the same basket, get in anothers graphic design aspects, and maybe in another kind of bussines.

I am in a -thirdworld- country and when I talk about animation; is like "anim-what?"; that industry here... doesn't exist. But I definitively will be in this bussines, in the industy... at another country (of course). With a little lucky someday I will go to Canada or Europe to seriusly study animation, i recently buy the "animation survival kit" and I also read all the stuff about animation I can find on internet.

My country... when you hear the word "marihuana" which country bring out your head? (tip: is not mexico)

Actually.. a Technical Director is what I was actually aiming for. I don't just want to animate stuff. I'd want to set up characters and lighting effects like that rather than just animate. I also am wondering whether I should download Maya PLE when I get back. I know a friend who tried but didn't know what to put for a company. I'm thinking I'm going to use Maya when I get into the seriousness of 3D animating, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I was just wondering if you knew any websites that tell you everything about the software or anything. Hope that helps you're explanations.

"You can never be a real winner if you've never been a loser" -DPoV

I Dream to Be A 2D Animator?

i wanna go to 2D Animation and also write up stories to pitch up to many networks. i live in England and wanna really move to America to persue this career. does anyone have any advice on how to prepare?

Message By Echi Echi :D :) :) :cool:

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If you're young enough, hit yourself in the head with a baseball bat, then proceed... :D

Questions

Hi, I'm new to these forums and I'm thirteen. I was just wondering. How would you be able to draw directly over 3D frames? And do any of you know of any free 3D software I could possibly use?:)

Hi, be sure to check out my blog! A few thing there, and I'll also be putting some of my work (pictures and short carttons) there too in the future: http://ukracattack.blogspot.com:)
I am also making a Flash animated cartoon that I plan to air on it's website in Fall 2008. It's called Tednut and it's about an personified peanut named Ted and his friend Kernal, and their basic adventures in their town of Sleepy Oaks, New York: http://tednut.sampasite.com:D

i live in England and wanna really move to America to persue this career. does anyone have any advice on how to prepare?

There is no preparation for America. Because, in America...no one can hear you s c r e a m. :D

complete and utter beginner

Hello everyone, I originally wanted to be an architect but after being in a 2-yr Computer-Aided Drafting program at a technical college in Atlanta I changed my mind towards the end. I did High School in the Caribbean and the closest thing to animation on my island (Dominica) was Technical Drawing:( so I came to America with no experience in art classes. I can sketch pretty well though, I'm particularly good at reproducing images and doing still life, ofcourse all of those skills I had to develop on my own.

What would be the best direction to move in terms of getting into the industry for me? I know it's not completely hopeless. I've been reading up as much as I can on animation magazines and drawing books so that I can get as much information as to what I'm getting myself into.

The crazy thing is I got into SCAD but I seriously lack the funds to actually start a quarter there.:o

Can somebody please give me some words of wisdom?:confused: I'd really appreciate any kind of help.

There is no preparation for America. Because, in America...no one can hear you s c r e a m. :D

Mostly because everyone else is screaming. (Hey, if Dubya was my president, I'd scream too).

Order my book Jesus Needs Help on Amazon or download on Kindle.

You can also read the first 18 pages of my next book for free at this link: The Hap Hap Happy Happenstance of Fanny Punongtiti

Welcome RJ. Don't know what you mean about drawing over 3D frames - do you want to add 2D elements or make the 3D look 2D? Or maybe something else?

There are a couple of free 3D packages that come to mind. The best-known and most widely used is Blender. It's very robust, but has a somewhat complex interface:

http://www.blender.org/

Another free package is Anim8or. It's significantly simpler to get started with, but isn't nearly as versatile as Blender:

http://www.anim8or.com/

Welcome RJ. Don't know what you mean about drawing over 3D frames - do you want to add 2D elements or make the 3D look 2D? Or maybe something else?

I would kinda like to learn how to do both, both mostly adding 2D elements.

Hi, be sure to check out my blog! A few thing there, and I'll also be putting some of my work (pictures and short carttons) there too in the future: http://ukracattack.blogspot.com:)
I am also making a Flash animated cartoon that I plan to air on it's website in Fall 2008. It's called Tednut and it's about an personified peanut named Ted and his friend Kernal, and their basic adventures in their town of Sleepy Oaks, New York: http://tednut.sampasite.com:D

........

The Wife would prefer I go "In-House" somewhere to find that 33 year job

The long term job virtually doesn't exist even in office/suit jobs....Neither does 9 to 5...(stay and get the job done)
"They" say the average worker has 7 career (that's careers, not just jobs) changes in their lifetime.
I too grew up watching my dad working over 20 years at the same place. When I was young and wide-eyed I had this naive notion that creative jobs worked the same way....being totally clueless about freelance, etc.
If I could have had my middle-aged mind in my 17 year old body back then, would I have still pursued animation? I don't know.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for. What I meant was, learn the basics of whatever software you're interested in, then add the skills you need to accomplish the task you've set for yourself. For example, if you wanted to be a modeler, you'd need to familiarize yourself with the modeling tools in whatever package you're using.

So what you're saying is If I want to be a TD I need to learn the basics of lighting/shadows and character setup? Like if I'm using 3ds max or Maya I should learn how to use the basics? but how do I do that if I don't have the software?

"You can never be a real winner if you've never been a loser" -DPoV

My wife has been at the same company for 20 years, and the guy who was the best man at my wedding is close to that at his company. Aside from those two, everyone else I know has moved around a lot.

And my wife and best man have had lots of different jobs within those companies too...

If I could have had my middle-aged mind in my 17 year old body back then, would I have still pursued animation? I don't know.

No, G-man, you would have done what I was gonna do: become a lion-tamer.

We coulda head-line in Vegas, baybeee! We woulda been BIG!!

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

I am only in High School and i have always been into animation. I take mostly advanced level art classes in school.

I Want to become a 3D Animator but i dont know what i can come to expect in this career.

I just need some advice on how to go about getting a job in 3D Animation

What to expect?

Well.........you can expect to work harder and longer hours than in most other jobs.
You can expect NO job security, instead your skills and developed talent will become your job security. You can expect to travel to work in another city at some point.
You can expect competition from other people, both before and after you get a job.
Do not expect to make a lot of money, but you should be able to support yourself once work is steady.
Expect work to be seasonal, in the respect that projects ( games and shows) have starting and stopping times and there's not always another project following it up.
Expect to work for people that, at some point, will not know what they are doing--most do, but there's a few out there that do not.
Expect to really bust your ass in getting the best training you can, it developing your ARTISTIC skills as well as computer skills. Expect that mediocre skills will land you mediocre to no jobs--accomplished skills will give you better options. Do not shirk at talent.
Expect to get stiffed on pay at some point in your career--it might not happened for a long time, it might only happen once, but its VERY likely to happen.
Expect fear, frustration, sweat, accomplishment, elation, joy, devastation etc.--the gamut of human emotions.
Expect to love the job and hate the job at the same time.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

So making tons of money in games is just a myth?

Thats some good advice. Im assuming that you are an animator.

I would kinda like to learn how to do both, both mostly adding 2D elements.

Most likely you'd composite elements together in a package like After Effects.

Its been a while, but here's some more things to think upon---

Competency.

This one is tricky because it plays into areas that really bruise egos and can appear quite insult if you have to question it.

But you do, daily.

Not just your own competency, but that of others as well.

Here's the reasoning: Animation is about about the "link in a chain", right?
No one image is more important than the other, but every image is important in concert with each other. Have an single image out of place, or not working properly can look out of place, pop at the wrong moment, or just "hit" the viewers eye the wrong way.
So applying some TLC to each drawing/image tends to be important--and we understand that, right?

Now, the same goes for the PROCESS in creating animation, not just the actual act.
Question for you.......a script is as important as a storyboard, as a layout drawing as..........etc, right?
You need the one "before" to do the one "after", pretty much.

Yet, what often happens in the process, in actual production, is something called compartmentalization. That means that a particular segement of the process becomes isolated and on its own, either through accident, design......or ignorance.

An example of compartmentalization is something that commonly takes place in the design stage.

Character, prop and location designers are required to read the script to do their work. They take their cues from the written description. The storyboard then takes its cues from the designs.

But........often times, the designers will only be handed the PAGE in which their assigned design is mentioned on.
OR they will only look for and read that page, ignoring the rest.
Sometimes they don;t get the script AT ALL--just a quick description.

Now comes the question of competency into this.

The design of a simple location, say a office, or other room usually sounds straightforward. But if that room has interplay with the characters, and specific moments by those characters within, then the specifics of that design are governed by that interplay. The context in how that design is to be used governs how it'll be depicted.
To wit: if a character is to place a ball on their desk, and the ball is to roll off the desk and out a window, then the desk must be placed where in the room?

By the window, right?

But, if the characters involved in the piece are to later chase each other AROUND said desk, then what do you do?

At least half the time........., the designer might only read the first part, or might only read the second part, and design accordingly.
This creates problems for the folks in later steps because they now have to reconcile a design that doesn't work.
This kind of thing doesn't always have directorial oversight because directors are usually pretty busy people, right from the get-go.

What's required is that designers read the scripts IN ITS ENTIRETY, and understand the material just as much as a storyboard artist or animators needs to. The design crew might be saddled with a particular restriction, or licensing circumstance and be forced to show the desk by the window......or, ( perish forbid!) in the middle of the room. The 'board artists might well beable to handle the desk being beside the window because they can work some business with the characters chasing each other OVER the desk in that situation. Or maybe they chase each other around a couch, or a chair.
Someone, at some point, has to think it out and that will affect what tales place on paper and on screen.

That's competency.

It doesn't end there either.
'Board artists and layouts need to understand how a given scene is to be animated so they can field the best, most economical use of the animators time. If the medium is limited animation, then elaborate twirling scenes of characters dancing arm in arm--staged wide with a half dozen characters--well.......its a nightmare in the offing.
And its a question of competency.

At every stage, every person is responsible, in some way, for their part of the storytelling process, and in acknowledging the other tangent tasks related to their job.

When someone doesn't believe or accept that it is their responsibility, then you have problems.

Many times I've seen work travel a ways through the production pipeline, actually go through approvals, but ultimately be unusable. Simply because someone compartmentalized their task.
Honestly, this can be frustrating, esspecially when deadlines are involved, or when heat comes down on you or the next person because you had to make a judgement call on your own.
Its a situation that can, if allowed to fester, politicize a production to the point of bitterness.

The only way to avoid it is to be on top of YOUR OWN game at all times. If you notice something, bring it to someone's attention asap. Don't let things slide, assuming someone else knows what they are doing. You cannot make such assumptions because actual practise so often proves people will not always be responsible. One of the best ways to deal with this is to latch onto one of Disney's most valuble snippets of advice: don't bring me a problem without bringing me some kind of solution.
As Walt so often observed, usually the provided solution was the best one.

If everyone looks out for the ultimate goal of the production, the final product becomes that much better, and the working process to that goal becomes more enjoyable and satisfying.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Just so you know, that was curiousity from my own sense of observation and visual judgment. Drawing from photos has its place and you certainly demonstrate one useful thing (having an eye for technical, rote accuracy). But it's just one of many muscles to practice flexing.

Would you be willing to share some of the life drawings? Not for criticism, I'm just curious what they'd look like coming from a mind with that strong of a power. To see if it applies academically or more expressively.

No, G-man, you would have done what I was gonna do: become a lion-tamer.

We coulda head-line in Vegas, baybeee! We woulda been BIG!!

LOL! OMGosh, WHat a mind-picture is that!:D (A la Sigfried and Roy :D )

I know this is my first post.
I've read through every major thread on this forum and others, so I'm not just posting this randomly.

Here is my situation:
I'm 24 and have never been to college. So i have no art training. I draw, and have been picking up books to learn real techniques (not learning to draw anime). I'm not the best but am working real hard.

I'm currently saving money and trying to prepare myself to commit to going to school full time. I don't want to do something half way, I want to commit and go all out. So commitment shouldn't be a question.

I'm very very computer savvy and learn really fast so the technical side of things I'm not worried in. I've been able to accomplish everything I've ever put my mind to.

However, How well should I be able to draw before even trying to apply to these schools? I know once in the school quite a few classes are taken to further to give better understanding.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out where I need to be to get in the door (not saying I'm going to set my goals for the minimum requirement) I just need a goal to start with. So if this is holding me back from even starting school, I'll work as long as need be.

So, basically, I'm trying to find out how big the overall importance of this skill set is to start with and then later on. I've kind of read some people say they don't draw that well, and I've also read the complete opposite.

In advance, thanks for any help or advice.

LOL! OMGosh, WHat a mind-picture is that!:D (A la Sigfried and Roy :D )

Prolly more like Buddy Hacket and Don Rickles.

The cats there woulda looks at us like we were the $1 buffet!

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

I know this is my first post.
I've read through every major thread on this forum and others, so I'm not just posting this randomly.

Here is my situation:
I'm 24 and have never been to college. So i have no art training. I draw, and have been picking up books to learn real techniques (not learning to draw anime). I'm not the best but am working real hard.

I'm currently saving money and trying to prepare myself to commit to going to school full time. I don't want to do something half way, I want to commit and go all out. So commitment shouldn't be a question.

I'm very very computer savvy and learn really fast so the technical side of things I'm not worried in. I've been able to accomplish everything I've ever put my mind to.

However, How well should I be able to draw before even trying to apply to these schools? I know once in the school quite a few classes are taken to further to give better understanding.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out where I need to be to get in the door (not saying I'm going to set my goals for the minimum requirement) I just need a goal to start with. So if this is holding me back from even starting school, I'll work as long as need be.

So, basically, I'm trying to find out how big the overall importance of this skill set is to start with and then later on. I've kind of read some people say they don't draw that well, and I've also read the complete opposite.

In advance, thanks for any help or advice.

In my opinion, the more advanced your drawing skills are, the better.

Sure, there's voices here and elsewhere that sniff at drawing skills, claiming that you "don't need them" or don't need to be super-skilled. Alot of long-time pros simply swear by good drawing skills.

Its an asset having them, and if you lack them, you WILL miss opportunities that you might otherwise have a shot at.

Having taught at film schools for over 10 years, I've seen all manner of student walk in the door. My observation has been that the students that were more accomplished in their drawings skills, more professional in their mindset did better and accomplished more AFTER graduating than those that approached art skills hestitantly. The closer you are to the industry, in terms of your skills, the more many of these schools can help you.
Otherwise, schooling can be a big waste of time--as it is for many.

Also bear in mind that many schools offer curriculum, but schedule VERY little time for self-discovery, which is a critical component of artistic skill development. Exploring articially yourself before you get into school, can help you overcome many of the obstacles and frustrations that will come in class. Again, this follows with being more industry ready before you enroll.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

You know, just for the record, $35k is a decent salary when you're living and paying your rent/mortgage in Minnesota, but when you're living in one of the big cities where animation studios are actually located, where rent alone can be several thousand dollars a month, those average salaries start to get a lot tougher to live on. Just sayin'. :)

Yea, in a big city, its a pittance wage. Add to it that the work can be for only part of the year and .........yes, you can struggle.

I've had good years and less-than-good years income-wise. It took a while to accept that, but its the nature of the beast. The effort and persistence a person applies can affect this though, from what I have seen.

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

Just so you know, that was curiousity from my own sense of observation and visual judgment. Drawing from photos has its place and you certainly demonstrate one useful thing (having an eye for technical, rote accuracy). But it's just one of many muscles to practice flexing.

Would you be willing to share some of the life drawings? Not for criticism, I'm just curious what they'd look like coming from a mind with that strong of a power. To see if it applies academically or more expressively.

Oh certainly, but.. sadly I'm roughly 400 miles from them and I don't have them on the internet. Otherwise I'd be happy to. I drew a concept car of sorts today. I thought it up myself and kind of looks like a newer dodge with a mustang tail end and a Chrysler rear and a Mitsu front grille. It's a sketch and I'd put it on there If I had a scanner here. there's one on the lower floor I could ask using. I might just go and scan it today if it will work. Just wait till Saturday and I'd be happy to get them on there. I'm comming back to the wasteland I call paradise of sorts..? Naw, The dale sucks.

"You can never be a real winner if you've never been a loser" -DPoV

Ken, I have a question. Can a person have a dialog with a potential employer and back out, with out slaming that door shut for some possable work in the future.

hey thanks for the response.

I'm pretty much so trying to plan this upcoming year for working on my drawing alone. I was originally thinking, time wise, that I would try to just see if i could get accepted into schools but maybe I'll end up taking the whole year to try and get myself up to par.

Also first year at most of these schools contains core classes?
So I could possibly clep and take some local college courses to soak up those credits and save money?

Ken, I have a question. Can a person have a dialog with a potential employer and back out, with out slaming that door shut for some possable work in the future.

I don't see why not, just be upfront and honest about things.
Hell, about a year and a half ago, I bailed on a job two weeks into the project---because I was overloaded-- and six months later I was back at the same place on another project. And I thought I had bailed on BAD terms....

"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)

drawing

Well I went and scanned my concept sketch. I Designed it myself, no still life, no picture, just me thinking and putting it on paper, I started it today when I woke up and I "finished it" today. I'm still not sure if I'll finish finish it but It was good practice in design. Well I guess I'll let you decide if I should finish it. I'll get those still life drawings up as soon as possible. When I scanned it it became blurry so when I made it sharper it made it darker, and I wasn't familiar with the software downstairs so, I just left it. It was done in pencil. (which explains all the smudging and stuff that makes it look like crap.)

If you want I could take a picture of it with their camera and try it that way to preserve the pencil look to make it look less pen like.

keeping it real - DPoV

"You can never be a real winner if you've never been a loser" -DPoV

hi ken..,

u said the fact...but the way u wrote it..i feel nervous....

Mostly because everyone else is screaming. (Hey, if Dubya was my president, I'd scream too).

Hay he was our governer for two years before he got the big office. Please don't blame us. :D

And now back to the thread. In Austin there is a film society and they offer help with getting funding for films. I was thinking that this might be a source to get funding for an animation project. Has anyone every tried to get funding for any type of cinema?

Being a good at drawing in an art field is never a bad thing.

By the way, how old are you?

Aloha,
the Ape

See more of The Ape @ http://onetwoclicksmile.blogspot.com/ and https://vimeo.com/40270147

"...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."

As far as finishing it, that's your decision, but if you're honest about improving I think it's good sense to finish what you start just to see what you learn along the way.

I had a figure drawing teacher last term that discouraged us using our erasers if we could limit the temptation, because it was interesting to see the progress, or at least the so-called 'scars' that helped the drawing get to where it needed to be. With that perception I think it's actually pretty attractive.

Personally I dig the sharp pen-like line for anything that resembles a design or schematic drawing. Really it comes down to a few perspective issues and some indications of thickness and solidity, but for being self-developed it's pretty strong, especially since going by your comment and the date on the first drawing you're in...9th grade?

In any event three cheers for having the courage to bear all -- it's how you're going to get better. I really look forward to seeing the life drawings. Don't be afraid to invite criticism either, as long as the people you're asking understand it should be constructive opinions only. Also don't forget we have Show and Tell forums where you can showcase your own personal gallery and have others watch your skills develop whilst they contribute their thoughts.

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