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3D Training

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3D Training

Hi everyone. I may be looking at doing some further training in 3D and need some advice.

Does it make much difference if you do your training in 3D Studio Max or Maya? For example, if you did it all in Maya, but then went for a job with a company that used Max, would it matter?

There is a company I'm looking at that says it's a Discreet accredited trainer for Max. Has anyone gone through this avenue of training? Would you recommend it? Some of their courses go for only a week or even 2 days intensive. I wouldn't have thought this to be possible. What are your thoughts? They offer their training in lots of week/2 day courses, or the whole lot in one big chunk over about 5 months (the second option is a lot cheaper). Doing the big 5 month chunk is $6,857.37 USD. Does that sound reasonable? They claim that after doing this course, (and providing of course you have talent as well!) you'll be pretty snapped up by the industry as you'll have more than enough of what they're looking for.

I'd really appreciate anyone's thoughts and opinions on this.

Ta. :)

Mustard,

I too learned Maya first in a school (a basic course that basically only taught me the basics of character animation), and needed to make a jump to Max. However, I REFUSE to pay that kind of money to learn the software (yes, the prices are pretty similar here as well... a TAD overpriced). I have a friend who showed me where all the buttons are on Max and how it is similar to Maya, and he sent me on my own to teach myself. With my Maya knowledge (as limited as it was), it was VERY easy to learn Max by myself, and I am very happy with my progress in doing so, and cannot believe that I almost payed $15,000 for a one year intensive course to learn it from someone else.

These two softwares are not all that different, and if you download the tutorials that are easily found on sites like HighEnd3D.com, 3Dtotal, or 3Dcafe, you should be able to teach it to yourself. Keep your money to pay the rent, mate, while you learn it.

Good luck.

Wade

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Ok, until recently, I thought that any training I'd be doing from now on would be coming out of my own pocket. Therefore, I was thinking along the same lines as you guys- that it seems super expensive, and that there must be a way to teach myself. I've been going through all of the tutorials I can get my hands on and slowly getting better.

I've just recently found out that through my resettlement entitlements that I have after leaving the Army, that they are willing to pay for more training. Their obvious plan is to get me employed as quickly as possible (and of course I'm very happy with that idea too.) Their plan of attack is to contact the companies in my area and see if I have what they're looking for or if I have potential. There's one company in particular that's recruiting like mad, so I think they'll be going with them first. They're aiming for some sort of unpaid (I'd be paid by defence) trial, and then if the company thought I needed more training, then defence will fund it.

With all of this in mind, if money wasn't a problem (I know they'll obviously have their limits too with what they are willing to pay), would you guys still shy away from the type of training I mentioned previously, or would you take a different path? Would you look at more traditional art training rather than software-specific?

By the way, thanks for the referral to highend3d. I hadn't seen that one before.

I would always steer a person to go to a school that is more about the art of 3D animation and storytelling rather than a school that will teach you how to push buttons; button pushers are a dime a dozen.

Employers like to see how creative you are and a more technical school in most cases is not going to give you that opportunity. Remember your demo reel is going to get you a job so you want to go to a school that will help you create a reel that shows your talents and creativity and at the same time shows you can use a 3d package.

ed

Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida

With all of that in mind then, if a decent animation school isn't in my area, do you think online training is an option? Or wouldn't this be as effective as face-to-face contact?

With all of that in mind then, if a decent animation school isn't in my area, do you think online training is an option? Or wouldn't this be as effective as face-to-face contact?

Face-to-face on contact isn't exactly necessary but some sort of feedback on your work is. Working alone at home robs you of getting feedback (and learning) from other students and critical feedback from an instructor. You can get pretty good at the software by doing manuals and online tutorials but people aren't hired because they know the software anymore you need to know how to apply it and that's where some sort of course comes in handy. With that said there are plenty of places on the web like this one where you can get feedback and help you grow as an artist as well.

ed

Department of Computer Animation
Ringling College of Art and Design
Sarasota Florida

if you did it all in Maya, but then went for a job with a company that used Max, would it matter?

Yes.

There is a company I'm looking at that says it's a Discreet accredited trainer for Max. Has anyone gone through this avenue of training? Would you recommend it?
...

To my knowledge, Max is used mostly for video game development and not so much for TV or movies. Since it grew from Autocad, it's also used for product and architectural visualization.

I prefer manuals and online tutorials. All it takes is a little self-discipline. (I will sell you some for seven thousand dollars.) You also might consider an internship once you know polygon manipulation, texturing, and lighting pretty well.

(in respose to keenasmustard's question), "if you did it all in Maya, but then went for a job with a company that used Max, would it matter?"

Yes.

How the hell could you possibly know this, Harvey? Jeez. You cannot speak for every animation studio out there (or ANY for that matter). Unless you are answering someone with something you can answer without one shred of incertainty, you should probably not answer. You talk as if you are all-knowing, and because you say STUPID things like this, could cost people like this poor guy thousands of dollars and a lot of time.

Keen... If you know Maya already, converting to another software package is a snap. I have done it, and many of my friends have done it as well, PAID BY THEIR NEW EMPLOYERS (who apparently wouldn't hire them unless they knew their specific software). I wonder what companies such as Pixar do when they need to hire people? Surely, nobody has studied their proprietary software in school?

Once one package is known inside and out, Keen, it is very easy to convert to another, and many companies will probably be willing to give you the re-training time, as it will not take very long at all (provided that your portfolio is pretty solid, done in Maya, Max, Softimage, Lightwave, or whatever).

Cheers, Keen.

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

Hey keen! just thought i would add to what swade said...

Most studios are not that specific to the package. However, they do want you to have an understanding of the 3d world. I studied maya in school. But when i got hired at R & H, they trained me on there software. The majority of the big studios will train you, because even if they are using maya, or max, it is often very customized for the particular studio. When i started at R&H, it was not very difficult to start working in Voodoo, because i had an understand of the 3d world. All the software is basically the same, it just takes a bit of time to learn the differant VUIs, but once you know one, it really isn't that difficult to jump to another.

As far as Max or Maya, decide what you want to do, Max is used much more in game, and Maya in Film. But i would just pick one, and make good work with it, cause if its good, you are going to get the job, doesn't matter the software.

goodluck!!

[b][size=3]Matt Shumway
Character Animator
Rhythm and Hues Studios
www.mattshumway.com

www.enigmathemovie.com
[/b][/size]

Thanks guys for all of your info! Now I've got more questions!

What sort of work would you recommend I should have in my portfolio? For example: still life photo realism, character animation, etc? I would assume that it would be good to show work that demonstrates my knowledge in more in-depth areas of the program I'm using? Should I stick to a theme? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've got some basic stuff I've done, but I'm way too scared to put that in a portfolio. I'm thinking of starting from scratch. Here's an extremely small animation I did a while back. Is this anywhere on the right track? (Hopefully this link will work. I've heard others say you have to paste it into your url. I've kept the file size down so it should be a snap.)

http://www.angelfire.com/ultra2/keenasmustard/Starfish_comp.mov

OK, I've just tried that myself and can see it's not working. I'll be back a bit later when I've got some more time to check back through other people's threads that have used this ISP. Stay tuned, unless you know how I get the link up correctly if it's from a site like Angelfire?

Ok, try adding this with the obvious http://www at the front

angelfire.com/ultra2/keenasmustard/Starfish_comp.mov

Wow. That was a pretty small piece. To be honest, I would not even use that one.

If I could make a suggestion, I would stay away from any themes, etc. in your portolio. Try a number of different things, demonstrating your ability to adapt to different styles (realistic timing, cartoony timing, somewhere inbetween, etc.). I believe you are working in Maya (correct me if I am wrong), so find yourself some rigged models on the internet that you can animate. Do run cycles, walk cycles, jumps, two guys fighting, etc. Basically just invent different little "scenarios" if you will, and animate them. Now, I know that models are hard to come by, but sometimes if you look on the tutorials, they will come with characters that you can download in order to do the tutorial. These are obviously public domain, and you can use them for whatever you want, so long as you are not making money from them, so practice with 'em.

If you are doing the 3D max thing, you can actually just do all your little animated pieces with the biped character that you can create with the click and drag of a button. It is not pretty (it is basically just a skeleton... 3D max 6 has a better looking skeleton, but...), but that is all anyone really cares about with character animation, is that you can make the character move well. You might want to find a full character on the net though (complete with skin and face) to practice some face morphing and facial animation with later on. If you can make the character move well, then the face morphing will be easily learned; especially if you have a traditional background. That is where we 2D dinosaurs shine!

If you have a hard time finding models, I think I have one public domain character called "IK Joe" for Maya that I would be happy to send to you.

Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

I'm actually using 3D Max. Thanks for the info Wade. I'll definately take all of that on board! I've been trying to come up with the character myself, and didn't realise they'd still look at my animation of someone else's model. (Geez that'll save me some time!!) I'll have a look around for some character models on the net, but if you think of any sites with Max ones in meantime, please let me know... Once I get my act together, would you mind giving me some more tips if I post any work I come up with on here again?

Well, don't get me wrong, Keen. If you can model, as well as animate, that makes you a better catch for a studio. SMaller studios like to have well rounded people who can do everything. Bigger studios tend to have their pecialists though. But no, nobody will disregard you animation of other people's characters.

Post your work, and I would be happy to help all that I can. I am afraid that my input as far as the software will be a bit limited, as I am no guru yet, but as far as the motion goes, I can help just fine.

Oh... And post your work in "Show and Tell", so nobody jumps on you. Just send me a PM telling me you have put something up, as I do not got to that forum at all.

Cheers

"Don't want to end up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" - Paul Simon

This and this place have some free rigged models for Max. First one won't be back up till next week though.
There's plenty of places that have free models for download, so you could also just rig those and start animating to your heart's delight ;)

cheers,
~D

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [i]-Tom Waits
[/i]

Fantastic! Thanks Dave! Wade: Stay tuned, and yep I'll be sure to post in the right spot. :)